Revit MEP

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New Member
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎09-18-2012
Message 21 of 41 (735 Views)

Re: MEP 2013: Duct Flow = Multiple Values l/s

09-18-2012 02:00 PM in reply to: martin.schmid

Martin , we need to be able to size individual duct branches and at least see the actual cfm at each piece of ductwork in the properties REVIT MEP 2013 software does not allow us to do this.  The multiple values to me is an error.  Am I missing something?   

Distinguished Mentor
asommer
Posts: 755
Registered: ‎08-10-2009
Message 22 of 41 (706 Views)

Re: MEP 2013: Duct Flow = Multiple Values l/s

09-24-2012 11:45 AM in reply to: dave.short

You are not missing anything, but it is not an error.

 

If you have a single diffuser placed at the end of a branch (not tapped into the side of a branch), the values are absolute.  However, if you tap into the middle of a duct run, that duct run has different values (a value for up-stream of the tap, a different value down-stream of the tap), hence the "Multiple Values" issue.  If you create a new plan view of duct, apply a color fill to the duct, set up the color fill legend for static pressure or velocity.  You can then see what Revit is trying to do.  I understand why, but it did change the way we look at the duct systems (we used schedules with conditional formatting on the Static Pressure and Velocities).  We are now using the color fill to check Static Pressures and Velocities.

 

I would definitely agree that a "Maximum Value" could be applied to the instance properties of Duct and Piping.

Member
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎10-24-2012
Message 23 of 41 (675 Views)

Re: MEP 2013: Duct Flow = Multiple Values l/s

10-24-2012 10:08 AM in reply to: dave.short

Fellow Designers and Autodesk consultants,

 

In our company, here in Brasil, we do use the flow parameter in the tags and the schedules for use them in sheets and project documents. I think this is an backwards evolution for the software. If there exists multiple values for flow and friction parameters, the software must show all of them to the user and not an general information like "multiple values". We do like the software for the presentation and others features like the mechanical and electrical functions and for this we stay use the software. Autodesk can not simply accommodate itself while other softwares evolve. I hope to read an consultant answer like "We will work to develop an upgrade to this version to fix this problem." and not an aswer like "Unfortunately the software does not give that information anymore". Give us the min Flow and the max flow in the sections, for the love of god.

 

I hope.

 

Diego Perez

Executive Officer

Arquimedes Engineering LTDA

 

 

Employee
martin.schmid
Posts: 1,297
Registered: ‎11-16-2005
Message 24 of 41 (663 Views)

Re: MEP 2013: Duct Flow = Multiple Values l/s

10-25-2012 01:24 AM in reply to: arquimedes.engenharia

Diego-- how do you use flow in a schedule... what does it help you accomplish?

 

As I read through the thread here, there seem to actually be three separate concerns:

 

1.  I would like to be able to tag the flow/velocity/reynolds number/friction (etc.) at any point on a tapped duct/pipe, and get the value at that location, so I can properly document the computed values


2.  I would like to be able to easily find any cases of duct/pipes that exceed a velocity or pressure drop per length, because I need to be able to quickly find issues in my project


3.  I want to be able to select and easily see the flows in a tapped duct/pipe, so I have an idea of what design constraints I may have if I need to make a modification 

 

There are all logged for consideration for future development,.



Martin Schmid, P.E.
Product Manager - Revit MEP
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Member
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎10-24-2012
Message 25 of 41 (656 Views)

Re: MEP 2013: Duct Flow = Multiple Values l/s

10-25-2012 09:45 AM in reply to: martin.schmid

Thanks for your time Martin. I really hope this problem does not exist anymore in the next version. But I'd really like to see this resolution in an Upgrade for Revit 2013. Is it not possible?

 

Diego Perez

Member
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎10-24-2012
Message 26 of 41 (652 Views)

Re: MEP 2013: Duct Flow = Multiple Values l/s

10-25-2012 10:07 AM in reply to: martin.schmid

Question: Diego-- how do you use flow in a schedule... what does it help you accomplish?
Answer: Most of our clients like to check this parameters with their Engeneering Department in a quick way. We put these informations (like tags and schedules) in the sheets and we have an excelent return from our clients about which is the best presentation way in our projects and this is one of our diferentials here in our country. And I tell you that one of the points that made us to choose to buy the Revit was this one, because the software speeds up the presentation process.

 

Thanks for your concern.

 

Diego Perez

Employee
martin.schmid
Posts: 1,297
Registered: ‎11-16-2005
Message 27 of 41 (644 Views)

Re: MEP 2013: Duct Flow = Multiple Values l/s

10-25-2012 09:50 PM in reply to: arquimedes.engenharia

How does having a list of ducts with their flows help a client's engineering department?  What is it that they are checking? 



Martin Schmid, P.E.
Product Manager - Revit MEP
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Employee
martin.schmid
Posts: 1,297
Registered: ‎11-16-2005
Message 28 of 41 (643 Views)

Re: MEP 2013: Duct Flow = Multiple Values l/s

10-25-2012 09:56 PM in reply to: arquimedes.engenharia

Unfortunately, for reasons both technical and non-technical, it is not possible to upgrade wihtin a version. 



Martin Schmid, P.E.
Product Manager - Revit MEP
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Contributor
al.armiger
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎07-04-2012
Message 29 of 41 (642 Views)

Re: MEP 2013: Duct Flow = Multiple Values l/s

10-25-2012 10:01 PM in reply to: dave.short

...and the list of groups that have developed workflows around these parameters grows.

 

Whether they be used by internal or external clients and to what purpose is immatetial, there is (as seen by the ever growing thread) a value to this information being available.

 

We await a potential return of the parameters in 2014.

 

Al

 

Employee
martin.schmid
Posts: 1,297
Registered: ‎11-16-2005
Message 30 of 41 (632 Views)

Re: MEP 2013: Duct Flow = Multiple Values l/s

10-25-2012 11:00 PM in reply to: al.armiger

Hi Al,

 

I understand where you're comming from, and if I were you, I'd probably be quite tired of me asking 'why' as well.

 

However, the propose to how someone uses a proposed functionality is very important, and asking why helps identify how to best solve the workflow, or workflows, that someone is hoping to achieve.

 

If we take the scheduling case, for example, we could solve the problem by simply putting the multiple values in the schedule cell as a concatenated list of values... for example: "300; 400; 500".  However, if someone is exporting this data from the schedule to a 3rd party software, having concatenated values like this may be less useful than if we were to come up with a better way to provide the data.  Someone may be interested in the 'minimum' flow for ensuring particulate matter doesn't settle in the air or fluid stream... whereas someone else may be interested in the 'maximum' flow to avoid excessive pressure drop or noise.  Or, the client may be using the raw schedule data as input to a hydraulic analysis software that if we partnered with directly, could potentially have a much better workflow of sharing the data.

 

We're not asking question to suggest that we don't understand there is value in having this information avaialble.  We're simply asking to make sure that we have all the cases covered in the three I listed previously, or if there might be a 4th, 5th, or 6th usage of the data that hasn't been surfaced as of yet.



Martin Schmid, P.E.
Product Manager - Revit MEP
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

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