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*Tom DeMita
Message 1 of 12 (243 Views)

I'd like to use Revitsystems but...

243 Views, 11 Replies
05-25-2006 04:47 PM
I have been using ADT for 6 years and now ABS. I would like to try Revit for
a small project but I don't want to get stuck in the middle.
I usually do Residential design. I also include an electrical plan, and with
the help of my subcontractors redlining drawings, the mech. & plumbing as
well. I also do all of the structural drawings as well.( I need to check the
overhead for stairs, garage doors, and a passage way for duct work. Can I
complete a set of plans with just Revitsystems or do I need the other Revits
as well?
Tom
Contributor
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎09-09-2004
Message 2 of 12 (243 Views)

Re: I'd like to use Revitsystems but...

05-30-2006 08:48 AM in reply to: *Tom DeMita
Tom, as i sit here looking at revit systems, it appears to me that most of the architectural tools are there. I have an architectural Tool category with the standard tools for arch. its the same design bar that Revit Building calls Modelling but there does not appear to be curtain wall tools. The View bar does not have Camera. The Site bar is quite incomplete. As far i can tell, the installed content is all there with the addition of the Systems stuff.
I almost think that for what you seem to be doing, the regular Revit Building would be enough. There are many ways for it to represent 3D HVAC and plumbing elements that would probably be adequate for residential. Check Revitcity.com for additional content. That way you would have all the arch tools you would need and an easily customized system to move forward on from autocad based products.
*Tom DeMita
Message 3 of 12 (244 Views)

Re: I'd like to use Revitsystems but...

05-31-2006 06:49 AM in reply to: *Tom DeMita
Thanks,
I'll see what my reseller can do. I wish they had a Revit like Building
Siystems that included everything.
Tom
Contributor
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎03-23-2006
Message 4 of 12 (244 Views)

Re: I'd like to use Revitsystems but...

06-08-2006 07:41 PM in reply to: *Tom DeMita
I have been using Revit System for a couple of months. I found it to include all the architectural tools in Revit Building except the Site Tools and structural components (beams, columns).
*Tom DeMita
Message 5 of 12 (244 Views)

Re: I'd like to use Revitsystems but...

06-09-2006 07:42 AM in reply to: *Tom DeMita
If it doesn't include the structural it won't work for me. Why bother
designing a 3D model with out having everything in it. I don't get it. If
you are going to have BIM with a 3D model, you need everything there. Why
does Autode$k want me to buy three programs to replace one building system$?


wrote in message news:5200831@discussion.autodesk.com...
I have been using Revit System for a couple of months. I found it to
include all the architectural tools in Revit Building except the Site Tools
and structural components (beams, columns).
Contributor
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎03-23-2006
Message 6 of 12 (244 Views)

Re: I'd like to use Revitsystems but...

06-09-2006 07:55 AM in reply to: *Tom DeMita
The structural I meant is the elements needed for an analytical model that you can build on Revit Structure to export to analysis program (RISA, Robot etc). You still have the walls and columns and all the other elements that you need to create a BIM model. I think the ideal bundle of Revit would be Systems and Structure. This would provide a very complete BIM package.
Distinguished Contributor
Posts: 572
Registered: ‎12-20-2001
Message 7 of 12 (244 Views)

Re: I'd like to use Revitsystems but...

06-10-2006 12:19 AM in reply to: *Tom DeMita
Not an official word but my take...

Revit is offered in the three flavors at this time because their (Autodesk) analysis of the market is that there are more individual firms doing the work that the software supports than there are firms doing it all in house.

If this is a fallacy or not a strong enough justification then they need data to redirect their marketing. I know from a conversation I had at the AIA convention today that they completely understand that there are clients out there who would like a bundle, if not a singular package, a singular product/price/license to deal with.

What Autodesk needs is your input. Via your reseller/regional Autodesk Representative and via your subscription support to say that the current marketing of the software doesn't support your business needs. Then you need to tell them what will. Then naturally once they understand the issue they can sort out how to solve it.

Way back when Revit Series was first offered they missed the mark initially the same way they missed it with ADT and ABS. That is, the licensing structure made it impossible to install them on the same PC. This made deployment a nightmare...they fixed it once it became clear what the issues were.

Autodesk is a big company and sometimes the decisions that make sense to marketing professionals don't tie in very well with the actual technology that delivers the concepts or that makes licensing possible. Don't even get started on the legal side of things....

Last, are you certain that every last feature in ADT is available within ABS? It was my understanding in the past that this was not true. They are purpose built for different disciplines but share code in the same way that Revit B,ST and SY do. Nowadays, I am a bit out of touch with ADT/ABS though...okay very out of touch... 8-)
*Tom DeMita
Message 8 of 12 (244 Views)

Re: I'd like to use Revitsystems but...

06-10-2006 06:41 AM in reply to: *Tom DeMita
I had ADT2007 and then upgraded to ABS2007. ABS has everything ADT has &
more. I don't design everything in house, just the drafting. Not every firm
uses Revit. What happens when your engineers send back a dwg or just red
line paper drawings? Wouldn't you draw it into 3D models? I would say an all
in one is needed more now. Most of your consultants aren't using Revit so
you need to do the drafting for your BIM. I don't know of any engineers that
are using Revit and I'm not going to drop all of my current ones to look for
some firm that does.
They don't use ADT nor ABS either, that is why I do all of the drafting.

With a lack of skilled Revit Systems and Revit Structure users, if you do
the architectural in Revit, your going to end up doing all the rest of it as
well if you want BIM. It is the same way with ADT.

Are your consultants sending their structural and HVAC back to you in REVIT?
If not, when do you think it will happen? You need to do it until then.

Tom DeMita





wrote in message news:5202095@discussion.autodesk.com...
Not an official word but my take...

Revit is offered in the three flavors at this time because their (Autodesk)
analysis of the market is that there are more individual firms doing the
work that the software supports than there are firms doing it all in house.

If this is a fallacy or not a strong enough justification then they need
data to redirect their marketing. I know from a conversation I had at the
AIA convention today that they completely understand that there are clients
out there who would like a bundle, if not a singular package, a singular
product/price/license to deal with.

What Autodesk needs is your input. Via your reseller/regional Autodesk
Representative and via your subscription support to say that the current
marketing of the software doesn't support your business needs. Then you
need to tell them what will. Then naturally once they understand the issue
they can sort out how to solve it.

Way back when Revit Series was first offered they missed the mark initially
the same way they missed it with ADT and ABS. That is, the licensing
structure made it impossible to install them on the same PC. This made
deployment a nightmare...they fixed it once it became clear what the issues
were.

Autodesk is a big company and sometimes the decisions that make sense to
marketing professionals don't tie in very well with the actual technology
that delivers the concepts or that makes licensing possible. Don't even get
started on the legal side of things....

Last, are you certain that every last feature in ADT is available within
ABS? It was my understanding in the past that this was not true. They are
purpose built for different disciplines but share code in the same way that
Revit B,ST and SY do. Nowadays, I am a bit out of touch with ADT/ABS
though...okay very out of touch... 8-)
Distinguished Contributor
Posts: 572
Registered: ‎12-20-2001
Message 9 of 12 (244 Views)

Re: I'd like to use Revitsystems but...

06-10-2006 10:01 AM in reply to: *Tom DeMita
I applaud your willingness to model work which is outside your scope. That means you'll be better prepared for the conflicts that arise during construction.

I don't find many that are willing to do this however. 2D design information is still just linked into Revit projects as backgrounds, just like folks do with AutoCAD now. With Revit Systems I need Revit rooms to enable many of the engineering calculations that are required.

Revit Systems focus for release 1 is generating engineering data, not drafting. Autodesk only recommends that firms use Revit Systems when collaborating with a team using Revit Building. Remember for this first release that is. That is why ABS is sold together with Revit Systems. ABS for existing clients who are not using Revit and Revit Systems for any clients using Revit Building.

Revit Systems does have nearly all of the architectural tools, enough certainly to model the parts of a building needed to do calculations if you choose to use Revit Systems for a project team that isn't using Revit products.

Are you saying that you are a drafting service?
*Tom DeMita
Message 10 of 12 (244 Views)

Re: I'd like to use Revitsystems but...

06-10-2006 11:22 AM in reply to: *Tom DeMita
I am a contractor but recently I changed to doing drafting only. After
working construction 30 years my body has had enough. I started doing
structural drawings for an engineering firm part time 7 years ago and
started designing remodel, additions,garages, etc. for some of my contractor
friends. That eventually led to designing milion houses and even commercial
projects that I sometimes bring on an architect for. I share an office with
2 engineering firms now and design houses,etc. as well as the structural
drafting for both firms. I also work with interior designers to draw up
plans for major remodel jobs.
My HVAC contractor will design the mechanical, my electrical contractor
the electrical ,and then I'll do the drawings. I some times have my plumber
red line in his plan as well. This way I don't have the plumber cutting out
all of my floor joists to run his waste pipe and I don't have a MPE engineer
calling for a 24" x 24" duct running in a scissor truss with only 16" of
space.

Isn't that the whole idea of BIM and 3d modeling?

Tom




wrote in message news:5202184@discussion.autodesk.com...
I applaud your willingness to model work which is outside your scope. That
means you'll be better prepared for the conflicts that arise during
construction.

I don't find many that are willing to do this however. 2D design
information is still just linked into Revit projects as backgrounds, just
like folks do with AutoCAD now. With Revit Systems I need Revit rooms to
enable many of the engineering calculations that are required.

Revit Systems focus for release 1 is generating engineering data, not
drafting. Autodesk only recommends that firms use Revit Systems when
collaborating with a team using Revit Building. Remember for this first
release that is. That is why ABS is sold together with Revit Systems. ABS
for existing clients who are not using Revit and Revit Systems for any
clients using Revit Building.

Revit Systems does have nearly all of the architectural tools, enough
certainly to model the parts of a building needed to do calculations if you
choose to use Revit Systems for a project team that isn't using Revit
products.

Are you saying that you are a drafting service?

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