Existing Piping Systems to be Demolished disconnect and loose system - WTF?

[mcklem]

So.

I have multiple piping systems and other piping segments (all of which are currently defined within a system) that i needed to set as existing, and needs to be demolished at the new construction phase. Somehow REVIT decides to disconnect all the piping and remove the system definition once this is set. THis is really crappy becuase now i cannot define the Rise/Drop symbols, nor can i connect and define the systems when i re-connect them for the new work.

I now have to create filters and new types for all the seperate pipe types, fittings, accessories and load the file up with unneccssary duplicates to control their visibility and line styles etc. in my DEMO plans

I really hope this gets fixed in 2014 because thats a huge FAIL mr REVIT software engineer.

Anyone else experience this? What work arounds did you elect to use.

-m

REVIT MEP 2013

[jkarben]

It is a known item/issue and one at the top of my lists that needs addressed.

No change for 2014.

We are using worksets to control visibility in our demo views.

On the Wishes Forum:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Revit-MEP-Wishes/Demo-d-item-keep-properties-have-more-graphi...

[jimmie_ng_wspgroup_com]

Yup, still not fixed in 2016.

I think that in Autodesk's mind, if you were demolishing pipe in the real world, you would physically be breaking the pipe and fittings apart.  Of course, I am only guessing that's why that function is there.

[dbunselmeyer]

Here's the problem with that. Graphically, pipes that are disconnected are not equivalent to connected pipes. There are big gaps because of the masking region around things that are disconnected. I can't print demolition plans because there are discontinuous elements. Revit really needs to get the graphical and printing at least remotely under control, and soon. Many firms are unsure of Revit and simple stuff like this is not helping.

[RobDraw]

If you make your hidden line gap settings small enough, it will help.

[dbunselmeyer]

But then every other gap in the job will have too small of a separation. This really doesn't help. Besides, that's not the problem here. The problem is that Revit is treating these things like an architect and that doesn't work. All I'm saying is that if Autodesk wants engineers to really get on board with this, it needs to cease being a reskinned architecture program and actually be developed for engineers. 

[RobDraw]

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@dbunselmeyer wrote:

But then every other gap in the job will have too small of a separation. This really doesn't help. Besides, that's not the problem here. The problem is that Revit is treating these things like an architect and that doesn't work. All I'm saying is that if Autodesk wants engineers to really get on board with this, it needs to cease being a reskinned architecture program and actually be developed for engineers. 

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That's a matter of opinion. I've been using Revit in an design engineering environment for many years and we never had a problem with the way Revit does demolition. Yeah, we had to make some concessions graphically but we can still put out a set of high quality documents.

According to AutoDesk, the demolition tool works as designed. If your hidden line gap is hiding anything really relevant in your demolition drawings, maybe you should revisit how you present them instead of blaming something beyond your control. 

[dbunselmeyer]

I shouldn't have to revisit anything. Demolition shouldn't strip a pipe of all information and associations and connections in all phases when it is demolished in the last phase. This is what I'm saying. The demolition tool is working as designed, and that's where I have a problem. This is exactly what architects need, I've done lots of reading and this is, like you said, exactly the way it is supposed to function. But I am an engineer, and I need something different.

[pkolarik]

Every reseller / tech support (piping focus) I've spoken to about this issue agrees that Revit's handling of piping demolition phasing is badly broken and has been for many years.

It's so bad that the recommended workaround is abandon demolition phasing completely for piping and utilize filters instead, to a much, much better result.

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@dbunselmeyer wrote:

I shouldn't have to revisit anything. Demolition shouldn't strip a pipe of all information and associations and connections in all phases when it is demolished in the last phase. This is what I'm saying. The demolition tool is working as designed, and that's where I have a problem. This is exactly what architects need, I've done lots of reading and this is, like you said, exactly the way it is supposed to function. But I am an engineer, and I need something different.

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[dbunselmeyer]

Do you happen to have a good resource as to exactly what they do to workaround? I know how filters work but specifically I would love to see some literature or a video on exactly what the best practice is for this. It would really help our Revit workflow and end product to get this down.

[RobDraw]

The concept is very simple. Instead of using the demolition tool or assigning demolition to a phase, make a demolition phase and leave the pipe intact. I "mistakenly" did this on one of my first projects. It had multiple new and demo phases along with temp work. It worked out quite well.

[dbunselmeyer]

I'm having some trouble understanding what you mean here. I assume you are talking about Phase Filters? When you go to the New Work view, wouldn't the things you have on the Demo phase show up as existing, or previous, then? 

[RobDraw]

They would have to, wouldn't they?

[dbunselmeyer]

Yes, but how does that help? If it's demolition, that stuff needs to be gone.

[RobDraw]

I'm sure you can find a way to turn off the demolition stuff. Experiment with phase filters to find a way to make it work in your project.

[dbunselmeyer]

So when you did this before, how did you get rid of the demolition stuff? You had mentioned you left it intact.

[RobDraw]

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@dbunselmeyer wrote:

So when you did this before, how did you get rid of the demolition stuff? You had mentioned you left it intact.

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I didn't get rid of it. It remained mostly intact in the model.

[dbunselmeyer]

Yes, but you had to hide it in new views right? I understand that these things will be in the model intact still, but they need to be hidden. I'd like to know how you got your "New Construction" sheets to show your existing (pre-demo that isn't removed) and your new work but not the demo phase.

[RobDraw]

See post #15.

Why don't you just try it out?

[dbunselmeyer]

Wow, I can't even believe I got that response.

I did try it out. I didn't spend 8 hours on it, but I did try it. Why do you think I'm asking?

What is this, grade school? "I"m not telling you the answer, you have to figure it out for yourself." This is a help forum. I asked a question that you claim to have the answer to. Now there are two possibilities. You either a) don't have the answer and were just making it up or b) being intentionally obtuse for some kind of power trip or something. Either way, kinda inappropriate for an adult on a message board.