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AGI 32 Plugin

15 REPLIES 15
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Message 1 of 16
CrazedEngineer
4443 Views, 15 Replies

AGI 32 Plugin

Has anyone tried out the new AGI32 Plugin(Elumin Tools) for doing Point by Point lighting calculations in Revit? Any Pro's and Con's. I tried it out shortly, before they fixed the problems with the work sharing. Has anyone else had good results with it?
15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16
adam.jw
in reply to: CrazedEngineer

Hey there Crazed,

 

Yes I've been playing around with it. I'm using Product Update 2 and ElumTools 2012.1. I think my trial might run out soon (probably this week) but the results have been okay so far...

 

We've been discussing ElumTools in the MEP requests forum, I'll link it here:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Revit-MEP-Wishes/Lighting-Calculation-Wishes/td-p/2186339

 

 

 

And incase you don't want to click and scroll through here have been my posts:

-----------

You can ignore AFAIK. Product Update 2 fixed the API error which caused corruption in work-shared project files.

 

 

http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/Enhancements_List_RME_2012_UR2.pdf

Autodesk® Revit® 2012 API Enhancements

  • Corrects the sheet size calculation when exporting to one sheet to DWFx. 
  • Improves stability during Reload Latest/Sync to Central when the document is not allowed to be 
  • modified. 
  • Retains schemas during Sync to Central and allows central file to remain correct.
  • Reduces file corruption introduced by extensible storage.

 

 

I like how Autodesk used the term "Reduces" file corruption. I think that is to imply the onus is on the programmer who wrote the extension using the Revit API to write their extensions in such a way that it doesn't FUBAR your project.

 

I've written an email to agi32's Sales/Technical support team about the issues we've discussed in here so far. I'll let you know when they get back to me.

 

----

 

I received a reply back from them. They calim that the next release of EllumTools will remove that warning unless it detects the user is using a previous version of Revit 2012 (Prior to SP2). Also in the next release, you'll be able to use network licenses using the same network service Agi32 uses.

 

They seem to think that linked models work "reasonably well" however I can attest to the fact that material just aren't coming in.

 

The Revit API only gives EllumTools access to the material graphic color. So right now, they won't be able to calculate specularity or anything special like that. Just the color. (which for our purposes is just fine, obviously, we want to see lower footcandle levels if our walls our painted black!).

 

Here's what the rep said about glass:

"Glass is an interesting situation. If you have a single surface (pane) of glass, ElumTools (like AGi32) will compute electric light transmittance in a lambertian manner (diffuse). It is a must that any glass between interior spaces be a single surface. Double pane glass is treated as two surfaces with the same properties so in effect a double dip. We anticipate a more physically accurate solution to this (not lambertian) in the future. The multiple panes issue is a problem that has not been solved just yet."

 

Now, the likelyhood of their being double-pane glass from interior space to interior space is very low. But if you placed a light outside and wanted to calc how much light was seeping in from your exterior light into your room, the likely hood of your architect using double-pane glass for exterior windows is very high (like 100%).

 

Also, I'm a dummy and asked him why the point calcs were showing in lux... I changed it to fc here: Manage -> Project Units -> Electrical -> Illuminance -> Units: Footcandles.

 

I'll keep ya'll posted.

 

Although now I feel bad as we've sort of hi-jacked this request threads... good thing mods don't ever check on what's going on in here anyway (I'm kidding!)

 

--Adam

 

----------

 

There. That's the scoop.

 

____________________________________________________
Please give kudos to the MEP Wish List ideas you like, as this will help the Revit development team prioritize functionality additions!
Message 3 of 16

Thanks man. I will check it it.
Message 4 of 16
rossetti_uga
in reply to: adam.jw

I looked for 15 minutes before finding your method of changing from lux to fc. Thanks. I was becoming frustrated that it was not within the ElumTools dialog.

Message 5 of 16
Elizabeth_Cooper
in reply to: adam.jw

Hi Adam

 

What you mentioned about Glass is interesting, I am currently trying out ElumTools and have been working on an architect's Revit model in Revit MEP, using ElumTools and seeing if I get a similar result from my calculations in Dialux.

 

There are internal windows within the project and I thought wouldn't it be cool if I could calculate the room average illuminance with the corridor lighting coming through these windows. I have edited the window family to have just one pane of glass, and changed the transmittance within the ElumTools Material Mapping, but when I look in the Helios Viewer, I cannot see the glass at all, so have no idea if the results are correct.

 

I hope I have understood you correctly, does the calculation have to be done in Revit Architecture for the glass to be considered? Or have I just edited the window family incorrectly?

 

I am in the UK and generally we use Dialux for any internal lighting calculations and I have always found that it will not show glass in visualisations. I was hoping that Revit ElumTools might, do you have any experience with this? Or will it just be a completely see through window?

 

Thanks for any help

 

Elizabeth

Message 6 of 16
adam.jw
in reply to: Elizabeth_Cooper

Hey Elizabeth, welcome to the forums.

 

First, make sure you use "multiple spaces mode" and "combine the spaces" upon running the calc. You're probably already doing this.

 

Second, make sure the model detail is cranked all the way up in the ElumTools options first before experimenting like I'm about to below (with an architect's model which is presenting me with smiliar challanges you seem to be facing).

 

How ElumTools grabs the room's geometry is dependant on the extents of the space. The extent of the space is dependant on the "wall edge" of the Curtain Wall / Wall placed in the model.

 

For example, in the screen shot below, I have opened up the architect's model and turned on the bounds of the room.

 

 

curtian wall.PNG

 

As you can see, that even though the curtain wall's center would allow the room to bind to it and grab the glass -- because the wall above the curtain wall is thicker, the room stops here!

 

section.PNG

 

 

Notice in the next screen shot how I've deleted the wall above, now the curtain wall is determining the room binding and if you were to calculate this space the panes of glass should render (as should the mullions if you have the detail cranked up).

 

no more wall.PNG

 

When I notice things like this --- that is why I've taken to making a copy of the architect's model. And renaming it as "lighting model" --- then linking in my MEP model and copy/monitoring the fixtures inside it.

 

Best,

 

Adam

 

____________________________________________________
Please give kudos to the MEP Wish List ideas you like, as this will help the Revit development team prioritize functionality additions!
Message 7 of 16
adam.jw
in reply to: adam.jw

Here is what you're probably experiencing (and what I am faced with as well).

 

Interestingly, it grabbed the door, but not the curtain wall and it's elements.

render.PNG

____________________________________________________
Please give kudos to the MEP Wish List ideas you like, as this will help the Revit development team prioritize functionality additions!
Message 8 of 16
Elizabeth_Cooper
in reply to: adam.jw

Thank you Adam that's really helpful.

 

I think the problem with my model must be that I have the windows as part of the walls, and even when I set the room boundary to 'centre of wall' rather than 'face' - the glazing still does not show up, although something must be happening as the illuminance values do change if I change the transmittiance of the glazing. Did you manage to get the glazing of the curtain wall in your model to show up in the visualisation?

 

I also get holes within the wall profile wherever there is an intersecting wall behind joining onto my room bounding wall. I wonder if that is just a case of making sure the intersecting wall is included within the room constraints as well?

 

Thanks for all your help

 

Elizabeth

Message 9 of 16

Anybody know if future releases of Autodesk AGI32 Plugin will allow secondary design options to be calculated?

 

I know you can create Design Options in Revit, but what would be really useful would be to compare the different options' results side by side.

 

Thanks

E

Message 10 of 16
adam.jw
in reply to: Elizabeth_Cooper

This is one of my wishes as well.

 

I am sure you are faced with the same problems I am.

 

You're at the beginning phases of design. And you're going to run through A LOT of different fixture options to get the right watts/sqft, fc average, style of fixture (pendant? troffer? etc?) --- so Design Options would help a lot with this.

 

Also the architect might have different ideas for wings, or perhaps additive alternates where you'd also like to calculate the light level.

 

In the mean time I would suggest using Model Groups. Model Groups have come in very handy for testing multiple calculations with different fixtures and wattages. Great a model group out of a fixture layout called "DESIGN IDEA 01" (or something like that) then duplicate the Type of that model group and swap fixtures out in each Type.

 

 

____________________________________________________
Please give kudos to the MEP Wish List ideas you like, as this will help the Revit development team prioritize functionality additions!
Message 11 of 16
Elizabeth_Cooper
in reply to: adam.jw

Thank you, that's very helpful. I did try making different Option Sets and setting each Design Option as Primary, but I think it counted each Option within the calculation and skewed the results.

 

I have tried the group option now and it works in a more effective way, I am still a little disappointed you cannot look at different option results side by side.

 

Perhaps creating different work planes and running different groups of luminaires on each separately? Not sure if this will work.

 

Do you know if future releases might have the ability to calculate design options?

 

Elizabeth

 

 

Message 12 of 16
adam.jw
in reply to: CrazedEngineer

I can't speak to future versions. All I can do is work within the features and abilities of the release version.
____________________________________________________
Please give kudos to the MEP Wish List ideas you like, as this will help the Revit development team prioritize functionality additions!
Message 13 of 16
nupurj94
in reply to: CrazedEngineer

Hello,

 

Can we get Daylight Factor from Elum Tools in revit? i installed plug in but it shows only illumins. I want day light factor. 

Does anybody has any idea about this? It would be great help.

 

Thank you,

Nupur

Message 14 of 16
nupurj94
in reply to: CrazedEngineer

Hi,

 

 

i just tried Elumin Tools in Revit, and it gives good resultsfor Illuminas. It doesn't give any result for day light factor. Except DF, it is a very good plug in. very quiek results. 

 

Thanks,

 

Message 15 of 16

Hi all, Sorry if i am intervening in another discussion topic but recently we ahve created a lighting layout useing the revit lighting software. But after creating the lighting simulation we ahve found that a calculation box apparing on every room created. Do we know how ton remove this please. Many thanks.
Message 16 of 16

Hi all, Sorry if i am intervening in another discussion topic but recently we ahve created a lighting layout useing the revit lighting software. But after creating the lighting simulation we ahve found that a calculation box apparing on every room created. Do we know how ton remove this please. Many thanks.

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