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2015 MEP Improvements

11 REPLIES 11
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Message 1 of 12
russellvee
1033 Views, 11 Replies

2015 MEP Improvements

Well, don't get your hopes up cause there are none.Smiley Frustrated Except duct tagging between taps, which is somewhat useful:

 

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I've been messing around with the new release all weekend and that's all that I have noticed. Pretty disappointing for paying thousands of dollars to stay on subscription. I was really hoping they would have done something to improve load calcs or the horrible report format. The report is still unprintable and unable to be exported to a useful format and they have added no new parameters to the space or zone schedules which would allow us to organize the information into a useful format. I guess Autodesk still doesn't understand how unpractical it is to sift through hundreds of pages of report with the bits and pieces of information spread apart so far, then do it all over again after a change has been made. I could print out a single page of Trace 700 report that would contain more useful information than a ream of paper in the Revit format. I'll guess I'll try to use pictures to explain...

 

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11 REPLIES 11
Message 2 of 12
lsop1409
in reply to: russellvee

Issues users are identifying are clearly not being addressed.

Fix the issues that are repeatedly identified on these forums and on the wishlist.

Nothing short of pathetic.

Workarounds are not solutions so Autodesk do not have to address the issues.

Message 3 of 12
russellvee
in reply to: lsop1409

Autodesk's business model is to nickel and dime us with minimal product updates so we all stay angry and paying for subscription, hoping next year will be the year. At this rate they can keep taking our money for decades before this becomes a viable software for building system design. That is why an Autodesk employee will never come in here and acknowledge that it would literally only take a few minutes of programming to do what I'm asking, and it would literally save me days of using workarounds. They will occasionally answer questions on the boards for people who can't figure out how to use the software, but they will never come here and give a valid reason why the load report tool cannot simply populate a zone parameter called "peak ventilation rate". It boggles my mind.

 

But hey, how 'bout those sketchy lines?

Message 4 of 12

I equate the subscription model and lack of fixes and useful features to racketeering. They are too ingrained in the industry to care about it. Where else would you spend your money? There may be an architectural alternative or two but I don't know of any MEP capable alternatives.
Message 5 of 12
lsop1409
in reply to: russellvee

I am waiting in anticipation for alternative MEP solutions to come onto the market and will take an in depth look at them when/if they become available, hopefully to find a realistic business solution.

Paying a subscription fee for a lack of development in many areas of the software that are lacking (and have been identified by MANY users is unacceptable.

Message 6 of 12
jostorres
in reply to: russellvee

Im mechanical Engineer, I use the program for 3 years and not really significavvos changes is presented tools for design of MEP systems. Alternative programs with which I found eh for now the cost is far greater than the cost of the subscription in Revit. We have to wait to improve or save

Message 7 of 12
AutoCAD-AL
in reply to: lsop1409

What a piece of crap this version is. AutoCAD  MEP 2015 Has no vesatility and is missing tools that where very useful in prvious versions. I use to be able to turn a slab into a solid or a mass property on the fly. How stupid are these people removing Power user tools. Why even stay with autodesk anymore if they are this ignorant. Rebit sucks and now Autodesk MEP sucks. The tools supplied are crap. No more custom slab creation on the fly. no more penetrations through concrete slaps for pipes. etc... So Autodesk lied when they said this product will get better and will be around the lifetime of our waste water treatment plant. Another lie. I document everything I hear from Autodesk and thay are habitual liers. Here we are doing a 350 Million dollar product and Auto desk puls this stunt. In my book and paersanally your a bunch of A*s  H*Le#. To put our agency into this position.

Message 8 of 12
HVAC-Novice
in reply to: russellvee

I'm surprised you complain about how the calculated data are reported. The underlying problem is all the load and energy calculation data in Revit are horribly wrong to begin with. At best you could use them to whip up some numbers during the programming phase of a project, but only if you don't make any decisions based on them. 

 

For actual design you still need to use Trane Trace or some other software. I think A-desk would serve us better to not do any load/energy calculation at all but concentrate resources on other features. For example lighting calculation is kind of useful... they just need to add point-to pint, outdoor and emergency illumination to be perfect.

 

The HVAC load and energy data Revit calculates are so far from usable.... it really doesn't matter if the report looks good or not. It probably is for the better the report is so useless, then you are less likely to actually use it.

 

Sorry for the rant, I really love Revit for the features that work. But some features should be treated as per "either do it right, or don't do it at all"

 

 

Revit version: R2024.2
Message 9 of 12
dbutts7
in reply to: HVAC-Novice

Since I joined the EE program, I've been trying to stay away from "rants", since they typically don't solve anything, but since Autodesk does follow these sites, I'm sure they've heard you. I'm a 30 year user this year, so I'm just as guilty of wanting a lot of improvements, but since I'm not writing the code, it's hard to judge.

 

With that being said, subcription releases, by their very nature, are going to have fewer updates and improvements that what you may have seen when Autodesk was in the 3 year release cycle. this has shortened the implementation cycle for us since we're not throwing as many changes at the user at once, but I do agree that the updates are thin for MEP. There are things that definitely need improviing beyond how Revit performs calculations, which was the bulk of the updates with 2015. But a few years ago in the beta programs, that's what everyone was clamoring for, so that's where the resources were spent.

 

One big change Autodesk made was opening up the feedback programs - you can sign up at labs.autodesk.com, and join the conversation. Autodesk works to get the most requested changes built in within 12-24 months, but fixes for stability, bugs, etc. are released more quickly. For example, this year Autodesk has rolled out 5 updates and one mid year update in the R2 release that does add a few features.

 

As far as some of the complaints about slabs, and holes in slabs, we haven't seen that - we're still able to make those objects the same way, so I'd have to see a more specific example.

 

So here's a tip - if something doesn't work, get it posted to the forums and to your free support from subscription. When the Expert Elites get involved, we try to push the major errors up to the development team as quickly as possible, to help you get your issue resolved. As users, we're in the same boat, but profanity and conspiracy theories don't help you get them fixed any faster. Be specific, describe the error and provide examples. Stay professional and you're a lot more likely to get a response.

 

And if you're not happy with the product, then switch to Bentley, ArchiCAD, or anything else that you feel will do a better job. Nothing motivates businesses more than competition, and if you're at the point of calling them out, then it's time to move on. Or...work with us, keep it civil, and let's work with Autodesk to get stuff fixed.

 

Ya'll have a happy New Year!

 

David B.

David A. Butts

Engineering Technology Manager - Gannett Fleming

Autodesk Expert Elite

Revit Certified Professional/Autodesk Certified Instructor

Revit, AutoCAD Architecture, MEP, Plant 3D, BIM Collaborate Pro Subject Matter Expert

The MEP BIM/CAD Engineer Blog

Message 10 of 12
dbutts7
in reply to: dbutts7

One other note - we don't use Revit to perform many calculations at all, but we do use these tools that already have, or are working on add-ins:

 

HVAC Solutions - HVAC system design that includes a Revit plug in to import the 1D diagrams, and are working to create the relationship between the diagram and the system;

 

We dump room and space gbXML files to Trace 700 and IES Virtual Environment for load analysis and more.

 

We use Elumtool for lighting design inside of Revit, instead of just Visual or AGI 32 - using the modeled lights, when they are correctly defined, can really save some time for your lighting analysis.

 

Design Master - we use their Revit Electrical plug in, which does wire sizing and circuit loads the right way, along with some basic fault protection tables and labels as well

 

We developed our own tool to export and import Excel XLS files as well as do the same to a SQL database - where we can perform calcs outside of the program the old fashioned way, but CTC and Ideate both have great import/export tools. We're also developing our own tools to sync SQL data between AutoCAD P&ID and Revit, and there's a lot of promise in this area for the water/wastewater/process plant designs.

 

AGA-CAD also has several family and content editing/management tools, we use their Smart Browser program and love it.

 

There's more, but with Autodesk opening up the source code more, and getting Dynamo out as a new programming tool, it will be interesting to see where they go with this.

David A. Butts

Engineering Technology Manager - Gannett Fleming

Autodesk Expert Elite

Revit Certified Professional/Autodesk Certified Instructor

Revit, AutoCAD Architecture, MEP, Plant 3D, BIM Collaborate Pro Subject Matter Expert

The MEP BIM/CAD Engineer Blog

Message 11 of 12
dbutts7
in reply to: dbutts7

BTW, I rant sometimes as well - here's a recent blog post about interoperability:

 

http://mep-cad.blogspot.com/2014/12/au-2014-is-in-canmiscellaneous-thoughts.html

 

thanks - db

 

David A. Butts

Engineering Technology Manager - Gannett Fleming

Autodesk Expert Elite

Revit Certified Professional/Autodesk Certified Instructor

Revit, AutoCAD Architecture, MEP, Plant 3D, BIM Collaborate Pro Subject Matter Expert

The MEP BIM/CAD Engineer Blog

Message 12 of 12
chris
in reply to: dbutts7

We tried elumtools and it certainly was an improvement over Revit alone, but we still could not make it profitable in terms ot time.  I even went out and spent a lot of money to hire a guy already versed in elumtools, but we still found the process time consuming relative to AGi and/or Visual combined with AutoCAD.  We finally threw our hands up and have gone to full blown design master with devices inserted at correct heights so they are exportable to Revit.  If/when Autodesk finally decides to provide a usable, working Revit Electrical package or if/when a usable, working 3rd party program comes out for Revit that allows electrical design within the software, we will consider revisiting Revit.  Until then we will be designing in CAD with designmaster and exporting devices and light fixtures to Revit for architects.  In the meantime, we have reduced the number of Revit seats we are carrying since we no longer need everyone to be on Revit, just need it to read architect's files and import/export drawings, etc.

 

Autodesk is fully aware of the shortcomings of Revit electrical, and for nearly a decade they've done little to address them.  I seriously doubt posting the same old complaints on a different site will change that, but I'll give it a try, thanks for providing the link.

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