Lighting Calculation Wishes

[sschwartz]

The ability to get a lighting area calculation on a "surface", in addition to the room average. The surface average will do.

[Jarom05]

Point to point calc woudl be great too.

[sschwartz]

Actually it is absolutely necessary. I was thinking "in addition to".

[majorminotaur]

have there been any updates to this? It would be very useful...

[rudderdl]

RADIANCE integration!!!

[SamuelAB]

Unforthunatly, Autodesk will probably never do this. They already have a hard time dealing with basic IES and lighting information..

You can export to 3DS, not that complicated. Realistically, most lighting designers will probably end up purchasingElumtools when it comes out. AGI32 (the makers ofElumtools) are the de factor software makers for proffessional lighting designers.

http://www.elumtools.com/

[adam.jw]

Our office is about to buy a couple copies of ElumTools (using the trial right now), it's pretty fantastic.

Just keep in mind that if you want to do calcs through surfaces (like windows), you'll need to do all the calculations in the Architecual Revit model since the materials in linked models do not seem to come through into your model.

I would create a seperate "lighting calc model" and just merge the Architecual model into your MEP model. Then all the windows/materials should come right in, giving you even more accurate point calcs (since it can measure absorbtion/reflection/transmission!)

Neat stuff.

[SamuelAB]

As you mentionned there are current restriction whereas the ElumsTools cannot read linked files consistently or at all. It is also not compatible with Worksharing. These limitations are still too serious to warrant the purchase of the product.

We work with files that are over 300 megs (1GB with all models in some projects), we cannot bind models everytime the design changes. For some reasom, some models will not even bind within Revit, probably since they contain to many similar elements. As well, the models from the consulstant use worksharing and we will eventually use worksharing. Since ElumsTools is not currently compatible with Worksharing, it is not a good time for us to jump in.

I've sent a support request to AGI32 with some sample files, if there are able to solve all my issue, I will reconsider. Else I think we will be better off waiting another 6-8 months until the new Revit comes out with a refreshed API for ElumsTools to digg through. This tool is very promising, but also rough around the edges. We can't afford to invest in bleeding edge technology.

[adam.jw]

Give the trial a shot at least. It's fully functional for 30 days.

Also. They fixed the workset problem in the latest version, and Autodesk fixed the model corruption in Wed Update 2. FYI.

[asommer]

You said they fixed the worksharing thing, I still get the error with the trial.  Can I ignore the error?

This is the kind of add-on to Revit we have been looking for!

[adam.jw]

You can ignore AFAIK. Product Update 2 fixed the API error which caused corruption in work-shared project files.

http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/Enhancements_List_RME_2012_UR2.pdf

Autodesk® Revit® 2012 API Enhancements

• Corrects the sheet size calculation when exporting to one sheet to DWFx. 
• Improves stability during Reload Latest/Sync to Central when the document is not allowed to be 
• modified. 
• Retains schemas during Sync to Central and allows central file to remain correct.
• Reduces file corruption introduced by extensible storage.

I like how Autodesk used the term "Reduces" file corruption. I think that is to imply the onus is on the programmer who wrote the extension using the Revit API to write their extensions in such a way that it doesn't FUBAR your project.

I've written an email to agi32's Sales/Technical support team about the issues we've discussed in here so far. I'll let you know when they get back to me.

[SamuelAB]

I'm glad that they claim the Collaboration issue is fixed, I would be more confident if I did not receive the error message each time I synchronise. I have Service Pack 2 for Revit MEP.

I am still experiencing the issue where the linked files are not coming in and receiving an error message regarding creating a 3d view so that materials are imported in properly. The linked files DO have only one 3d view where everything is shown. The fact the 95% of the linked elements are not coming into the calculation is making the tool impossible to use.

On top of that, the software is not detecting my cove lights above the ceiling (which is not set to room bounding so that the space can encompass the fixtures above it).

I've sent AGI32 the files a week ago and have not received any response yet... The trial is running out and the product has not functioned as of now.

Yes, this is the tool we have been waiting for and I am sure we will see some bigger benefits with the Revit 2013 itteration. Now if only they could the the product to work properly for me ><

[adam.jw]

I received a reply back from them. They calim that the next release of EllumTools will remove that warning unless it detects the user is using a previous version of Revit 2012 (Prior to SP2). Also in the next release, you'll be able to use network licenses using the same network service Agi32 uses.

They seem to think that linked models work "reasonably well" however I can attest to the fact that material just aren't coming in.

The Revit API only gives EllumTools access to the material graphic color. So right now, they won't be able to calculate specularity or anything special like that. Just the color. (which for our purposes is just fine, obviously, we want to see lower footcandle levels if our walls our painted black!).

Here's what the rep said about glass:

"Glass is an interesting situation. If you have a single surface (pane) of glass, ElumTools (like AGi32) will compute electric light transmittance in a lambertian manner (diffuse). It is a must that any glass between interior spaces be a single surface. Double pane glass is treated as two surfaces with the same properties so in effect a double dip. We anticipate a more physically accurate solution to this (not lambertian) in the future. The multiple panes issue is a problem that has not been solved just yet."

Now, the likelyhood of their being double-pane glass from interior space to interior space is very low. But if you placed a light outside and wanted to calc how much light was seeping in from your exterior light into your room, the likely hood of your architect using double-pane glass for exterior windows is very high (like 100%).

Also, I'm a dummy and asked him why the point calcs were showing in lux... I changed it to fc here: Manage -> Project Units -> Electrical -> Illuminance -> Units: Footcandles.

I'll keep ya'll posted.

Although now I feel bad as we've sort of hi-jacked this request threads... good thing mods don't ever check on what's going on in here anyway (I'm kidding!)

--Adam

[asommer]

One issue I see with the Exterior windows is... The "Rooms" and the "Spaces" do not seem to include the Exterior Glass, because the glass surface is set back into the center of the wall.  In Ellumtools, you select a room or space, and it shows what is included (interior windows, doors, door glass), but the exterior window is blanked out.  Do you guys see the same, or maybe my spaces or Arch rooms are funky?

[SamuelAB]

ElumTools 2012.2 (the newer version) just came out yesterday. Its fixed most of the issues with linked files.

It seems to still not detect curtain walls and still has issues with Design Options, but otherwise it's already come a long way since the first release a few months ago.

Just as a note Wzrd, there is no point in worrying about exterior windows (except for reflectance values) since ElumTools cannot and does not calculate sunlight contribution.

These guys are working hard and providing a good product. I'm kind of hoping Autodesk buys them.

[adam.jw]

My company and I just purchased it the day of the update. We bought the network license server ($750) and a single network license of ElumTools to start out with ($580 or whatever it is) but thus far... I haven't been able to get the network licensing to work!

So until I can get it to function you'll have to wait on my review 😛

And I for one, hope that Autodesk doesn't buy it. They're a small software company delivering a great product and I'd rather have a direct channel to their company vs. going through Autodesk. Although I do see the advantage of having a big gorilla behind agi32 to support them with more cash but... I dunno... big software ubercorps get slow and stop caring about the little guy... (how long did it take them to add conduit/cable tray in Revit MEP!? --- but their big Arch clients got stupid light studies and other lame architectual features way before we got even BASIC usability in Revit MEP)

Whoops. Got off topic 😕

Anyway. ElumTools is great... I just need to get it working...