Revit Architecture

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Posts: 191
Registered: ‎09-26-2008
Message 1 of 4 (559 Views)

Why can't I see my wall sconces?

559 Views, 3 Replies
12-12-2013 06:31 PM

Short story is I made a wall sconce from scratch but I can't see the symbolic lines in my ceiling plan in the project.


I needed a linear wall sconce for a client presentation based on one of theirs already installed.  The manufacturer doesn't provide BIM for this model so I had make my own.  I haven't bothered with photometrics.  At this point all I need is a placeholder for the ceiling plan and a 3D model for a hidden line view. I used the wall based light fixture family.  There was a plane elevation but no apparent parameter so created one and called it 'mounting height'.  After about ten minutes of modeling (and over an hour of tedious aligning, dimensioning and locking of the sketches to keep the model from distorting with changes in wall thickness) I opened the ceiling reference level plan and drew some symbolic lines to represent the fixture on the ceiling plan in my project.


Here's what happened.


  1. The symbolic lines for the CPRL (Ceiling plan in the family editor) are also visible in the FPRL.  I don't know why this is and there doesn't appear to be a way to hide them in just one plan.  I suspect it's because both are at the same height (the reference level.)  I tried changing the working plane before drawing the symbol lines to another plane above the reference level and out of its view range but it had no effect.  I can still see them in the floor plan.
  2. When I loaded it into the project nothing appeared and I got the message about 'no elements are visible because yada yada'.  The symbolic lines didn't show up at all.  I checked the detail level and that wasn't it.  As far as I can tell the view range for the CPRL and the RCP in my project are the same.  They don't show up in the project floor plan either.  The sconce is visible in 3D views so it's definitely in there.  I tried monkeying with the height of the symbolic lines like I stated in part 1. but it had no effect on there visibility.  Symbol lines are visible in other families so it can't be an issue with visibility overides.
  3. In my project I noticed there's a parameter for the fixture called 'Elevation'.  Changing it moved the fixture up and down on the wall.  Changing the 'mounting height' parameter in the project had no effect!  This parameter worked fine in the family editor.  Playing with the 'Elevation' parameter and the cut plane elevation brought the symbolic lines into view.  Apparently the symbolic lines are only visible when the cut line is passing through the sconce.  

Unfortunately my sconce needs to be mounted at 6 ft and my cut plane is at 7'2 to avoid cutting doors and windows.   How do get these symbolic lines to display?



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Message 2 of 4 (531 Views)

Re: Why can't I see my wall sconces?

12-13-2013 05:44 AM in reply to: kwg06516

Hello - I hope I have understood correctly - this is what I have, attached image for reference - I loaded in your fixture and place it on a wall with a door at 6'0".

In the floor plan you cannot see it because the view range is cutting at 4'6" and looking down. in the ceiling plan the view range cut is set to 7'2" and looking up, but you can see the light because I did a plan region around the light which allowed me to control the cut plane for that small area which I set to 6'0". i did a third view so you could see the relationship of the light and the door.


Does this make sense?



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Message 3 of 4 (515 Views)

Re: Why can't I see my wall sconces?

12-13-2013 09:42 AM in reply to: kwg06516

Go into the family, and in the placement side elevation, create a new model line using the Invisible line type that extends from the reference plane up to the mounting height reference plane.  Then align and lock the ends of that invisible model line to each of those reference planes, and reload into your project.


The problem you seem to be having is that there is no geometry from the family falling within the cut plan of your view, so the symbolic lines don't show up.  Creating the model line creates geometry, albeit invisible geometry, that will fall within the cut plane, thus rendering the family visible in the view.  If you've got your cut plane in the RCP set above the mounting height of the fixture, you may need to make a new reference plan in the family that will land above the cut plane, and extend your invisible model line up to that.


Hope that helps.

Ross Kirby
BIM Manager
Distinguished Contributor
Posts: 191
Registered: ‎09-26-2008
Message 4 of 4 (489 Views)

Re: Why can't I see my wall sconces?

12-15-2013 11:16 PM in reply to: kwg06516

So what every tutorial and lesson I encountered neglected to point out was that unless the family is cut no part of it, not even symbolic lines, will appear in the plan view associated with that cut.  Is this a special requirement of wall based families?  Because surely there aren't hidden lines in all the ceiling mounted lightfixtures I've downloaded in order to render them visible.  And what about the ceilings themselves?


What baffels me about this program is I seem to be getting told over and over again "Here are a set of rules that define certain conditions" and then the program seems to break them.  There is a cut plane and a top and a bottom of a view range and yet I have all these examples of objects outside of that range being visible where they shouldn't and others that should be visible like this lamp but are not.



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