Space planning tools in Revit

[Anonymous]

This seems to be a major hole in Revit's schematic design tools. Has anybody
come up with an effective way to do programming and space planning in Revit?
The conceptual design tools really aren't geared for it - there needs to be
stacking and blocking functionality as well as adjacency tools.

I'm aware of Trelligence Affinity, which seems to fill the hole nicely, but
there doesn't seem to be anything effective that is native to Revit.

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[sgoodmansen]

Well for one thing the army doesn't usually get building permits, they get approval from their superiors. Local jurisdictions don't have authority over federal projects. One exception might be projects which are not on federal land such as recruiting offices.

The design process isn't done from the inside or the outside exclusively. Any approach that designs a building wholly from the interior or exterior is just bad architecture. In many cases a complete program is created, which the architect must adhere to. The program is often done in-house by the client or is done under a separate contract by another architect. It is up to the Architect to create a holistic solution the the program. The questions Matt brought up about holes in the process within revit are valid, and I've found the solutions people have come up with to be very interesting.

Since you brought up the army, they use Bentley Architecture as their choice of BIM software. Bentley Architecture with the Triforma plug-in has the very tools that Matt Dillon was lamenting built right in. I don't care to use that software myself (I found it far more complicated than AutoCAD Architecture) so don't even start down that road on me again. Revit is my preferred choice, but it is lacking features that its competitors have.
Perhaps the workarounds are good enough though, I'll have to try them to see.

[ree.espinoza]

It's 2010
Has there been any helpful tools in Revit to adress this lack of space planning capabilities in Revit?
I have thought of making gruops out of each room type and edit as I go along.
Hate the room boundry lines. Massing??? Don't know.
Any constructive input is appreciated.
REE

[vector2]

ree-

i still think the purpose of revit is for
constructing a building.. and any
planning for that building should
be done before a revit project is
started..

[Anonymous]

No, it isn't

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"vector2" wrote in message news:6350307@discussion.autodesk.com...
ree-

i still think the purpose of revit is for
constructing a building..

[vector2]

i mean separate from the new massing
program built into revit.. any planning
tools would have to be part of that
massing program- separate from
revit..

massing was always there- but
only as another way to begin a revit
construction project- still to be used as
part of the construction development
phase..

that's why i was never sure why
they invested in that massing
component because that part
(schematic design and planning)
has always been separate from
the construction development and
documentation part that revit is
really about.. Edited by: Discussion_Admin on Mar 8, 2010 10:58 AM

[ree.espinoza]

Interesting take. I would have to respectfully disagree.
My experience has been working on integrated project delivery types. We had designers and planners working in Revit early on. Preliminary design was started in architectural desktop and sketchup. But once we started sd's we were all modeling in Revit. For instance we kinda knew where we were going to have what type of tenant in each space when we started Revit. It was the planning efforts of each "suite" that became cumbersome at first. Very fast track. The structural and skin was developing in Revit faster than the interior. So interior needed to be in Revit to keep pace with the changes and vice versa. We needed to be sure bathrooms were not placed at exterior windows. That walls were not hitting windows etc.... Better integration with skin as it developed, and vertical clearance integration with mep systems and architectural elements and structural elements. We issued steel before dd's was 1/2 way. So in our case it was a modeling and clash detection purpose for Revit upfront that was integrated into Navisworks with other primes and so on.... Steel was being manufactured as we were still designing.
We felt that by continuing with acad for interior planning and revit continuing for skin in 2 separate programs was a disjointed (less integrated) approach. Even if we were to underlay interiors to revit it was 2d. And to be quite honest some people just care about what they are working on on. Like skin. So this was also a good way to hold people accountable and not have to hear "when did that change?" Kept people honest.
We architects are supposed to collaborative individuals but sometimes it doesn't always work that way.
Cheers

[ree.espinoza]

It does seem impossible for one tool to do all. Which is why mep used other programs (which talked directly to fabrication programs) they somewhat played nice with revit and Navisworks. At least we could get by with every 2 weeks of coordinating models.
But at what additional cost are all these add on's. We were able to do planning very well with architectural desktop 2008. We also used for BIM. walls, cielings vertical openings and the like. Structural still used Revit. So it just seems natural Revit should offer similiar abilities for the user. Just my humble opinion.
Ree

[ree.espinoza]

Can they be edited in place as well? Can they be tagged with a space function and a color legend applied? I am pretty new to Revit. Bera with me please. If you know of a good article or blog on applying massing to schematics I would appreciate it.
Thanks

[vector2]

ree-

i'm not involved with the schematic phase..
i do virtual construction development and
documentation using revit..

i build houses and they hand me an AutoCAD
floorplan or a pencil drawing and i start building
from the dimensions i see- or sometimes i make
an image of that floorplan and trace it in the revit
floorplan view..

they also give me either a pencil sketch of
the elevations and roof shape- or a SketchUp
file..

i've never seen anyone use revit massing for
that.. because not only would they want to stay
with their pencil or SketchUp type program they
like- but they wouldn't want to commit to paying
tens of thousands of dollars with an autodesk
subscription just for sketching..

[cbcarch]

I would have to concur that Trelligence Affinity for Revit is by far the best thing I've seen
yet for developing the Program, Spacce Planning, in a database-driven software environment,
which can then be linked into Revit.

Trying to do Progeamming and Space Planning in Revit alone CAN be done, with Groups/Rooms/Massing
and complex Schedules, but the Trelligence Affinity method is much better--and ties right into the early SD
phase workflow with Revit, and can be used to CHECK the Revit model for compliance with the Program
throughout all design phases.

cheers

[murfy17]

Matt,

I would like to hear more about your mass.  Would you be willing to share this?  We are looking to start a new School project and trying to decide how to do the programing/ conceptual plans.

Thanks!

[rsawall]

Matt,

Diving into conceptual planning in Revit.  I would love to review your mass component solution in detail!  Can you provide an example?  

@matthewbastin3426 wrote:
I have developed a mass component to accommplish this "space planning" It is a strechable mass family. These masses snap to each other. You can also leave tolerances between the masses to represent walls. Each 'type' within the family has predefined room names / sizes / material settings. You can tag these masses to read this program info. Its all schedulable and very flexible. It does take a while to set up the predifined room sizes and color coding, but after that the space planning becomes a snap. HaHa

This was the method we came up with.

Matt

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