Revit for Residential

[IronDave]

Is there anyone out there who uses Revit for house plans ? I am experimenting with the trial version and it looks great but I have been "drafting" in Datacad for several years, I have also used Autocad and Softplan. I have to speed things up and I want to stay ahead of the game and not sure which direction to take - also want to use something that isn't obscure like Datacad - it isn't bad, it's just that I played with Revit and now I can't stop thinking about it.


I am used to creating a design by drawing it from the footings up to the roof, thinking about each step and how it all goes together.
You can call me and ask what I was thinking about any part of the plan and I can explain it to you because I had to draw each and every piece. I can get in there and see every little detail. I have my own style and I don't want to lose that part of how I do things.


This has given me a great reputation but it takes me an eternity and seeing Revit really excites me just because it does so much up front work and looks like it would save me a ridiculous amount of time. I just haven't seen a lot of examples of plans done with it that look as detailed - I am in no way saying it can't be done, I haven't got close to that yet, I just want to know if anyone else has been using it to create residential stuff. I spend a great deal of time with exterior finishes, trims, roofs, fascias etc - I don't want to produce a generic looking plan, I want it to be spot on.
Seriously, I am lying awake at night thinking, man, if I could become proficient with Revit, I could be unstoppable, I am just a little afraid of losing the "flair" I have and still being able to "draft" like I have been. I want to know it works not assume it does because the software did it for me.


Any opinions are appreciated, I am going to keep at it while working at the same time and see how it goes. I am a one man operation and I need to step it up. I have no complaints about my work except it takes me a long time spending endless hours perfecting things. I don't care if it takes me months to learn something new.


Thanks !!



Dave Edited by: IronDave on Apr 18, 2010 7:28 PM

[vector2]

DataCad has been one of the best ways to
draw house plans for the past several decades..
although in 2004 ADT became the superstar
of drawing programs for architecture..

both Softplan and Chief Architect are ideal
for drawing house plans and are made just
for that purpose.. Chief Architect- although not
parametric- is new and modern- but a bit
"Mickey Mouse" in my opinion..

probably the rolls royce of modern parametric
drawing programs purpose built for residential
is a program called Vertex- made in finland..
that program costs over ten thousand dollars
and has LightWorks rendering built in.. but
it's not exactly easy to learn- or even deal with..

then we have this little autodesk revit program
that can't even get its own buttons right and
where its distributors can't stop trying to manipulate
the minds of the program's users for misguided
marketing purposes- lol.. BUT revit blows ALL other
drawing programs out of the water..

whether it's for drawing bird houses or one
hundred story buildings- nothing in the history
of architecture has ever seen anything like
revit.. and yes revit is the best way to produce
house plans- hands down..

revit is easy to learn in the sense that there
are 400,000 revit users ready to help you
learn it..

[Robert_Grandmaison]

IronDave,

With 2011 I believe you can create as detailed and CONTROLLED drawings as you would with AutoCAD. I'm an architect who doesn't mind putting on my Occidental Leather toolbelt, grabbing my Senco Frame Pro720 nailgun and building what I've drawn on paper on my own house. I've plumbed, electrified, placed concrete, built forms, stacked joists, framed walls, set ridge beams, cut birdsmouths, set rafters, set tile, rocked, taped, painted, did casework, installed cabinets....and the list could go on for pages. I understand your ability and need to see how things go together. I understand that the horse proceeds the cart. But, in a virtual world, that doesn't always occur. I think of a set of construction documents (i.e. "drawings") as something that is developed for the Contractor's use. We organize information from a macroscopic to a microscopic level. We start with GENERAL issues that have peripheral relevance to the actual building, eventaully get to site information, then hit on plans and such, eventually to end in details. A set of drawings is a chronological development and mindset of a project. That's why the foundation plan often occurs before the floor plan- you have to have a foundation in place before you can build the walls atop it!

However, I find that in preparing a BIM you have to instead think from the mindset of the building occupier. You work not in a chronological construction manner, but instead in an experiencial/heirarchical manner. You start with spaces- defined first by walls with an nod to horizontal constraints of floors and ceilings/roofs. And then, as in the prior case, you flesh out the details. You might, for instance, not actually detail and design the foundation support system until after your building had reached a much greater completion that could ever be realized in the real world. It doesn't mean that you can't forsake the foundation for the walls- but it means, often, that you CAN put the cart in front of the horse.

That said, with the annotation changes made in 2011, I see no reason why you could not create details and plans that are as robust and comprehesive as any made in AutoCAD.

Sincerely,
Robert Grandmaison

[IronDave]

vecor2 and Robert, thanks for the insightful replies - I think I'll keep going for it and see how I do.

I didn't even know there was a 2011 version but I have heard that annotation was an issue.

I'll let you know how I do and thanks again !!

Dave

[jmartin]

We do residential almost exclusively, I set up our template and families and we model to a level of detail that not many see the point in doing so. You seem a bit of perfectionist as am I, but if you expect to get 95% perfection from Revit you will be sorely disappointed or will be taking so much time to do something that really isn't needed you will lose too much time. I've attached an image of a recent model for viewing pleasure to kind of illustrate our level of detail.

[Tilt441]

Dave,

I'm in a very similar situation to you. I mostly do residential as well, and for much of my computer drafting life I've worked in older versions of AutoCad LT.

I recently "bet the farm" and migrated up to the Revit Architecture Suite (Revit, AutoCad, and AutoCad Architecture). I'm currently using the ACA to remain on top of my current projects. But I'm spending my evenings and weekends in Revit, teaching myself how it works. I'll also be taking a course on Revit next month.

I not only see Revit being a massive leap forward in what I do, but I'll also be a pioneer in my area for such a product. I see it as a way to produce very accurate and solid projects, in less time - while giving my clients 'unheard of' results.

I have the software now, and I still lay awake at night imagining the possibilities. I also see the entire industry heading in the direction of Revit, and Revit like programs. I can see a time not far from now where I'll very little use for 2D drafting software.

Lyle

[arch1k]

In my experience, 3D computer modeling always takes more time than drawing Projections(floor plans and sections), simply because it is impossible to "fudge" a line here and there for a desired effect. All lines in 3D modeling must connect to form volumes and objects and thusly one often finds themselves generating much more detailed documents in 3D. I find that in Revit this aspect of 3D modelling holds true, if not amplified. So yes, i think you'll maintain the rigor that you are used to with Revit. However, I don't think that Revit would make anything go faster.

[johntoddflannery]

Been loving Revit for about 7 years now, I find that Revit is as hard and detailed as you wish it to be, you see, I have converted a few people from other programs, and it is amazing how when they started to get the feel of Revit how much they still managed to make the model still look like it was produced in Soft Plan, or AutoCad once the views were placed on sheets.

Over time with coaching and explaining why and how Revit works and the amount of modeling one does, their models started to look like I needed them to look. I do a lot of up front intense modeling, I find it sells every time, and with the repeat customers I am finding it hard to now keep up and am presently looking for more experience Revit users, very hard to find in the Niagara Region of Ontario Canada, for most of the 7 years I believe I was the only one using Revit, and pretty much still am the only one using Revit, the good thing about my promoting Revit, is that Niagara College is now using Revit in their Construction Engineering Coarse, as well as a local high school, of which I had firsts approached them to find out how I might be able to teach as a night coarse.

Anyway take the leap, yell, scream, swear, but never look back, it makes working fun again....

[Anonymous]

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:17:24 -0700, Robert_Grandmaison <> wrote:

>I'm an architect who doesn't mind putting on my Occidental Leather toolbelt, grabbing my Senco Frame Pro720 nailgun and building what I've drawn on paper on my own house.

+1 on the Occidental.

The Senco's not a bad gun either. I'm partial to the Paslodes myself. I do love
Hitachi's finish nailers (from the pre-Darth Vader styling days, of course).

Matt
matt@stachoni.com

[Anonymous]

I've done several house plans in Revit (mostly recreating what I had done in
AutoCAD Architecture as a self-training exercise). At this point I would not
dream of using anything else.

Here's my take:

One of the first "skills" to pick up in Revit is the ability to let go of what
you did in AutoCAD/ACA. The second skill is to let go of what your plotted
documentation looks like, because it WILL look different.

In AutoCAD, there is no concept of level of detail. People are very much used to
overdetailing at the plan or building section level, because they want to draw
it once, and to exactly understand how things come together. So you have 1/8"
plans with all of the wall components, including column wraps and complex wall
joinery. Sections will show all of the minute detail for the curtail wall
system. This allows you to then go into detailing by reusing your plans and
sections. The problem is the plans and sections take forever to draw and are
very much prone to error.

In Revit, LOD is built in, so you can make your 1/8" or 1/4" plans and sections
look appropriate for that scale, but the information is still there for
downstream detailing. Go to smaller scale views and up the LOD to get the
correct detail. You can even do things like embed window head/sill/jamb detail
components into the window family to get to your detail view without having a
lot of additional work to do.

The huge benefit to Revit is the ability to cut sections on the fly to complete
design work. Out of all of the sections I do, maybe 20% of them make it to an
actuaql sheet - the others are on the fly to work out a condition for further
modeling. Same with schedules.

Modeling all of the other stuff like fascias, trim boards, and casework takes
time but it is entirely possible. And, once you do it on one job, it's done and
can bee reused again and again. Because residential is very repetitive, you can
crank out your first job, save all of the pertinent families, levels and
settings into a template and to your library, and start the second job almost
halfway done. All you have left to do is add the actual geometry. My second
house took less than half the time as my first, even through it was much more
complicated.

Matt
matt@stachoni.com


On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:29:54 -0700, IronDave <> wrote:

>Is there anyone out there who uses Revit for house plans ? I am experimenting with the trial version and it looks great but I have been "drafting" in Datacad for several years, I have also used Autocad and Softplan. I have to speed things up and I want to stay ahead of the game and not sure which direction to take - also want to use something that isn't obscure like Datacad - it isn't bad, it's just that I played with Revit and now I can't stop thinking about it.
>I am used to creating a design by drawing it from the footings up to the roof, thinking about each step and how it all goes together. You can call me and ask what I was thinking about any part of the plan and I can explain it to you because I had to draw each and every piece. I can get in there and see every little detail. I have my own style and I don't want to lose that part of how I do things.
>This has given me a great reputation but it takes me an eternity and seeing Revit really excites me just because it does so much up front work and looks like it would save me a ridiculous amount of time. I just haven't seen a lot of examples of plans done with it that look as detailed - I am in no way saying it can't be done, I haven't got close to that yet, I just want to know if anyone else has been using it to create residential stuff. I spend a great deal of time with exterior finishes, trims, roofs, fascias etc - I don't want to produce a generic looking plan, I want it to be spot on. Seriously, I am lying awake at night thinking, man, if I could become proficient with Revit, I could be unstoppable, I am just a little afraid of losing the "flair" I have and still being able to "draft" like I have been. I want to know it works not assume it does because the software did it for me.
>Any opinions are appreciated, I am going to keep at it while working at the same time and see how it goes. I am a one man operation and I need to step it up. I have no complaints about my work except it takes me a long time spending endless hours perfecting things. I don't care if it takes me months to learn something new.
>Thanks !!
>
>Dave Edited by: IronDave on Apr 18, 2010 7:28 PM

[Anonymous]

"Matt Stachoni" <...> wrote in message
news:6376405@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Because residential is very repetitive

True that. A couple of hours spent hammering out a family, or a view
template, or even a process on how you plan on handling options will pay off
in spades.

--
Bobby C. Jones
http://bobbycjones.spaces.live.com

[IronDave]

Holy smokes, I really appreciate all the replies - this is great.

dothebim_5d,

Yes, I am a perfectionist and I am freaked out about not being able to give the level of detail that I am used to and comfortable with. I was corrupted because I worked for a high-end log home company for several years and I produced shop drawings for handcrafted log structures. I knew where every rafter was going to sit, where the pitch cuts were going to be made, calculated every rough opening, labeled every drilled hole where anchor bolts were going to land etc. I don't need this in what I do know but my mind keeps going there and I can't seem to shake the need to be detailed - if it's on the plan at least I know I told them how I thought it should be and not let them decide entirely on their own so I know it will be right.

The model looks quite detailed and accurate but looking at it makes me feel like man, do I want to figure out how to make that happen ? Also I would want to monkey around and keep tweaking it. Really at the end of the day, I have to ask myself what does my client want and what do I want:
My clients want things faster, (although none of them have ever walked away because they had to wait in line), they want a 3D view and almost always they need it in color or rendered. None of which I am currently able to provide except I farm out my renderings at an additional cost. What I want is to be able to spend more creative time and less drafting time - or just speed up and make more $ in the same time. I feel like I
will be left in the dust later and I would rather lead the pack than follow it.

I attached a pdf of what I am working on this a.m. - just an elevation and a couple of sections - still a work in progress but it's what my stuff looks like and I would sure like to keep it that way - I haven't used Revit enough to even comment yet, but I fear not being able to create an elevation that looks like what I have here. Manipulating lap sifing and shakes and trims and sills etc, etc etc. Also I just know the section works when I can sneak into any part of a it and tweak it or carry lines across to my other sections etc.

Lyle

I totally hear where you are coming from - I kinda think to myself, I am going to lock myself in a room for as long as it takes and then one day I will blast out some plans with Revit and be the only guy in town doing it - I want to be the "yes I can do that" man and not the "well, I am
trying to do that, and my buddy can do the other thing for a fee" guy. I feel like I will be missing the boat if I don't do it so regardless I'm taking a 64 hour college course and I'll go from there. I do all my work with an engineer who is using Civil 3D and it would sure make his life easier to have something that would more seamlessly work with his stuff.

arch1k

That's what I fear most - spending the same amount of time to create something I am not that interested in - I don't want to sit here for hours trying to make a model that in the end doesn't look like what I want. I have enough positive replies that lead me to think that it's worth a try but my brain is still in 2D mode.

johntoddflannery

Awesome - model looks great and I'd be very pleased if I could do the same - my thing is that I have really never modeled much and I used to work in an office where we had an animator and I would watch him sit there for hours messing with 'x' this and 'y' that - it made me crazy but I loved the results. I am currently in BC but I grew up in Sarnia so I know where you are at in Niagara - great part of the country. What you said about "makes working fun again" is about all I need to hear. The course I was thinking of taking is through George Brown - have you heard anything about it?

Matt

You are 110% correct about letting go of what I am used to seeing - I though about it and when a new client walks through the door, they don't know what product to expect - they just heard I am good to work with so I should have no fear there - not like they're going to say, this looks different than what I was expecting - if it works and can be built from that's the goal - it's my creativity that sets me apart and my dedication to the success of the project, not so much the printed plans although I don't get many complaints - except for myself - I really do spend way too much time fiddling with things. I bet you 75% of the stuff I draw doesn't even get looked at or understood - sounds bad but how many times have I spent a few hours detailing a post or a connection of some kind only to get to the site and find they built it wrong or entirely different anyway.

Yesterday I realized I have to use this software - I have been a doing a lot of small multi-unit buildings - only about 6 units max but when I have to make a change to a completed drawing like a window that has to change on every elevation, plan view and section and window schedule, the chance of error is large and the time it takes me to do it is beyond ridiculous . To be able to make a single edit and have it change everywhere is like winning the lottery for me (and my clients) . I really want to blow everyone away - honestly I feel like I have a great product and care way more than any other guy in town - I want to be the best and I work hard but they are pumping stuff out with Chief Architect or something else and spending way less time and making more $ than I am. It drives me nuts especially when I know they aren't as concerned with the end product - even if they are, they are kicking my ass at the moment.

I am also getting work from their clients who are leaving the other guys due to build-ability problems with the plans - I just need to combine the two - my accuracy and concern for detail with the speed of the other guys and a better finished product - I should be unstoppable - I want to be unstoppable.

Also Bobby Jones- the repetitiveness does make me realize it may not have to be laborious every time - that's a plus !

Again, I really appreciate the insightful replies - I feel like I have a lot more motivation to make this happen now that I have heard from you guys and the ways that you think. I makes me really excited to give it a try. It's been a long road to get where I am and I want to make it faster and better.

Thanks again,
Dave

[jmartin]

Dave,

Seems you already knew what you had to do, Very nice work you have there... Curious how long it took to create the geometry part (less dims, text, etc.) I attached section that literally took 2 seconds to create from the model I previously attached. A little tweaking of line displays/overrides & Object style settings and you would end up with something similar to what you posted (not perfectly similar though ) For example I'm not sure how you would "break" through a railing object like you've represented on the porch. But sections and elevations are literally that easy. to create. 3D camera views in color (my colors aren't set up right)... Just as quick and easy. I litterally did not draw a 2D line to create these. And if something gets added, deleted, or moved, it's already done in these views. Renderings are somewhat of an art form in itself, playing with lighting and materials to get the look you want... But once you get things set up, you can spit out rendings like crazy. Or even produce a little video if your hardware is up to the task. So if you need what you say you need... you have no choice but to move away from your 2D world. Good luck in your quest... FWIW you're already following. better hurry up if you want to get in the lead. Also don't forget to join AUGI revit forums for a ridiculously valuable resource for help and answering questions fairly quickly.

[IronDave]

dothebim_5d,

It took me a long time - maybe a day or more since I was drafting it line by line or inserting pre-drawn blocks etc.
and adding text etc, etc, etc. Inserting a joist and copying it 40 times, that kind of thing.

I'm already following - you're right there, I have been cruising through peoples blogs seeing what they are doing and
I realize I gotta start running to catch up, but at least now I know 🙂

Thanks for showing me the cross section !

Dave

[AndyNH]

Hi IronDave,

I'm in the same boat.  Very comfortable using CAD,  but see the value in Revit.  I'd like to know if you found have excellent resources for making the transition in the residential genre?  I found the book, "Residential Design Using Revit Architecture 2011" to be a great introduction.

I'm currently on the cusp of transitioning from ARRIS and SketchUp to Revit Architecture on a current project.  There a few holes that I need to fill before a can make the jump (stepped footings, tapered shingle-clad arches, and  dormers).

-AndyNH

[lakeland1]

I did the same thing , finally purchased the premium package and am loving it. It takes alittle getting used to but if you have been doing Cadd drawing it will be easier.