Revit 2012 ribbon UI

[Anonymous]

what does anyone think of what appears to be the new Revit 2012 ribbon that i revealed to the public for the very first time? yum yum scrumptious..

[AndrewHarp]

".. but you can be very nearly 100%

sure that nothing to do with Revit will ever save backwards...."

I woukd really like for someone fronm Autodesk to explain why this is the case?

It is allowed to happen in Autocad, so why not revit, and if I hear the reason that it is because it is a data base heavy program, I will scream.

Data bases can be made to be saved to earlier versions.

A sceptical person might think that it is to ensure subscription rates continue, after all if your consultants or project partners upgade to a newer realease, then you really have to as well and the only way to do that these days is with a valid subscription.

I really hope we get so much more than just a new UI and massing tools. How about fixing the existing issues.

Stairs

Ramps

Railings

Site tools

Slanted Walls

Graded Linework in Elevation (Archicad has it)

I might be mistaken, but isn't Revit a design & DOCUMENTATION tool, so why is there so much focus on the UI, massing and energy analysis for early design and nothing to help document the finished design.

If you want energy analysis, use ecotect. If you want free modelling and images, use Max.

lets focus on developing the core of revit to be a better all round tool.

[Anonymous]

"nothing to do with Revit will ever save backwards"

From what I've heard from the CAD people- AutoCAD

Doesn't save backwards all that well either..

In order for any program to save backward it would

Need a whole separate program built in to itself for

Translating all the new stuff back into the old.. That

Just doesn't seem practical to me..

HOWEVER you CAN save as IFC and open that

In an earlier version..

"only way to do that these days is with a valid subscription"

No- you can pay cash for the version.. Price is negotiable..

"Slanted Walls" ?  just build it as in-place.. But there

Might be a new market for those gravity defying

Houses- so then we will need system slanted walls..

"why is there so much focus on the UI" ?  because

I'm the one who has been talking about the UI after

Everyone stopped talking about it.. And that's because

I believe the native UI is the better choice- SO FAR..

But if Vassar is an indication of the kind of ribbon Revit

Might get- then I might move to the ribbon.. I open

Separate sessions of Revit constantly and I can't

Stand to wait 10 times as long for that stupid ribbon

To load.. But I have a feeling the new 2012 ribbon

Will be fast..

"isn't Revit a design & DOCUMENTATION tool" ?  it is

A CONSTRUCTION design and documentation

Tool.. Almost nobody uses it for conceptual design..

But the building designers might start using Vassar-

Someday..

"lets focus on developing the core of revit" - they just 

Completely the 64 bit foundation- Revit 2011 is a

Historical milestone.. Aside from the UI debacle-

Revit 2011 will be remembered as the most famous

Version..

BTW- Max is where all my designs come from..

i wonder how we edit all this mess? look at the image..

[AndrewHarp]

hmmmm, Ok

First off, Autocad can save back to earlier versions. It also comes with a batch file converter to  convert multiple files at once.You can convert files back to R14. this i know as I had to do it today for a client of mine. Exporting a Revit file to IFC is not the best option. It does not export perfectly and there is always data loss. It is a workaround at best. I have contacts who awork with databases on a daily basis and they all tell me it is possible to convert / save to earlier versions.

Second, not sure wwhat you are talking about regarding the subscription v's cash. Either way you are still paying to upgrade due to one of the team upgrading. If one upgrades and produces a model in the latest version, then the others will have to also, because, wait for it, there is no backward save capability.

Third, a big selling point of the free form modelling in Revit 2010 & 2011 was so designers can create free form buildings and concepts. This was directly promoted by Autodesk. Enhanced with the additioin of adaptive components and now enabling the use of Nucleus with Revit also. So don't try to tell me that designers won't use revit for design, we do, our clients do and autodesk promote the fact that you can. Thats the whole point of concept mass and modelling.

Fourth, I wasn't referring that you were the only person with focus on the Ui. I don't care about the UI. I use keyboard commands as it is so much faster to work that way. the same applies to Autocad. My point is that there are jey features of Revit tht do not work and I, and this is my opinion, would prefer that these were fixed prior to having a new ribbon or interface.

Fith, Slanted walls can be a very attractive design feature to a building. I am not saying it is vital, nor would it be used on a daily basis, but to have the ability to rotate a wall off vertical by a nominated angle could help in some ineresting designs. It has nothing to do with gravity. Not all buildings are square or perpendicular. Why should I have to create an in place mass then create a wall by face.There is a perfectly good wall feature in Revit, so why not give the functionality of move it off vertical.

Sixth, 64 bit was a natural progression. Autodesk didn't do us any favours with bringing this out, it was always going to happen as they need to keep up with their competetors. In fact, it quiet possibly lead to a cost hit to most as the new 64bit software requires upgrades to existing hardware or new machines entirely Sure, they tell you that Revit 2011 works on 32 bit. It doesn't. Try using a 100Mgb file on 32 bit with limited ram access. Does not work.

[Anonymous]

IFC doesn't export backward perfectly but it doesn't cause any problems either- and you

can fix what it misses.. It works.. And not too bad..

As for subscription- that depends on your situation and other factors.. Most users do choose

to become a subscription member.. And autodesk likes to keep you under their thumb to

make sure you don't violate the user agreement..

You said: "so designers can create free form buildings and concepts".. True but not many

starving artists have been plunking out $5400 for Revit lately- just so they can use the

conceptual design part.. SketchUp is basically free..

Keyboard shortcuts.. lol.. Of course- lift that arm up over and over and don't complain..

Because if you just click with one finger that's already on the mouse and you don't

lift your arm up and down constantly- your arm could go dead.. lol

"key features of Revit that don't work".. Okay- but I have been using Revit for five

Years and I don't know about any "key features" that don't work..

As for "slanted" walls- just like anything else that's not common- use in-place-family's..

Yeah I wouldn't run Revit 2011 on 32 bit..

[Sinha]

Hello Wahid,

Since you brought up in your comment that Revit 2012 should save back, I assume you sayin' "Backward Compatibility"

I must point out that, Revit is advancing pretty fast, New Modeling Features are implemented.

Suppose you have a Modelled Floor that have various "points" that have been elevated and dropped using the "SHAPE EDITOR" tool. Older versions of Revit do not have this. 

Now tell me if you save backward, what will happen to the floor?

Exactly!!, Revit Cannot just simply allow backward saving since this would only "WRECK" the model it self...

:-))) 

[Sinha]

Hi ArchRevitTech,

AutoCAD is Line Dwgs only. Each Element in AutoCAD does not Carry information. Neither Parametric.

Even AutoCAD 3D is simply Models, and nothing more.

If an Element is Modeled in Revit 2011, using "NEW" features such as "Shape Editor", how will that Element Retain its original shape if saved backward??????????

Older Versions of Revit do not have that "New" feature.

Then a guy like you will and moan, "why did revit do that, it messed up my entire model"?? 

I liked your comment "if Autocad can do this, then why can't revit".... ;-))) you are funny guy ;-)))

Edited by
Discussion_Admin

[ToanDN]

Your posts make no sense.  The fact that newer models can be opened in older version via IFC method has just proved that database driven models CAN be backward compatible to certain extent.  New elements not introduced in older version could totally be made uneditable as proxy objects.

Autodesk has not made this effort because it would go against their business strategy which favors updating annualy and subcriptions.  Whether users agree with such strategy is a whole another discussion but saying it's not possible because of New Features is laughable.

[AndrewHarp]

IFC doesn't export backward perfectly but it doesn't cause any problems either- and you

can fix what it misses.. It works.. And not too bad..

My point exactly! you have to FIX it. Why should we have to fix it. If it is a function that is incorporated in the software why should you have to fix anything?

Keyboard shortcuts.. lol.. Of course- lift that arm up over and over and don't complain..

Because if you just click with one finger that's already on the mouse and you don't

lift your arm up and down constantly- your arm could go dead.. lol

If you are going to tell me that using a mouse is quicker than using a keyboard, I will cease to take you seriously.

Not sure where your "non-mouse" hand is when you work, but my rests on the keyboard, so lifting it up and down doesn't come into the equation.

"key features of Revit that don't work".. Okay- but I have been using Revit for five

Years and I don't know about any "key features" that don't work..

Some Key features like stairs, railing, ramps and site tools require attention IMHO.

These items do not work effectively or efficiently. There is always rework or workarounds required.

All of the people I work with have the same stance and sorry to say, we all have been using Revit for much longer than 5 years

As for "slanted" walls- just like anything else that's not common- use in-place-family's..

You seem to missing my point here, slanted walls is only one example and I am perfectly aware of how to create them if needed. My point is, why should I have to? I have a wall tool already, why should I have to create a mass?

[AndrewHarp]

Hi ArchRevitTech,

AutoCAD is Line Dwgs only. Each Element in AutoCAD does not Carry information. Neither Parametric.

Even AutoCAD 3D is simply Models, and nothing more.

Quite true, you show a good understanding of the two software models. I guess the 14 or so years using Autocad never really qualified me to know this.

If an Element is Modeled in Revit 2011, using "NEW" features such as "Shape Editor", how will that Element Retain its original shape if saved backward??????????

Pretty simple really, If a new element has been modified / created, convert it to something like, oh, i don't know, perhaps a mass? This way it can also be modified in the earlier version.

Older Versions of Revit do not have that "New" feature.

Then a guy like you will and moan, "why did revit do that, it messed up my entire model"?? 

A guy like me huh. Care to expand on that?

All I ask for is the ability to use a software release of my choice. As it stands now, if my consultants upgrade to the latest and greatest, I will also have to, even though the newest features might not be of any benefit to me whatsoever.

The only thing I "moan" about is lemmings that tow the line without asking why. Like I have mentioned before, I know people who work with data files regularly and they can be save and converted to previous versions. This is what I would like to see my Autodesk contributions put towards. Not some new colours on the UI.

I liked your comment "if Autocad can do this, then why can't revit".... ;-))) you are funny guy ;-)))

Glad I could amuse you.

[sumex]

I would be happy if just the Family Editor could save back, or even better, make it a peripheral piece of software...  Or even better, make it INVENTOR.  Creating good content using the Revit Family Editor is about the same as performing brain surgery with a pair of salad tongs. The parametric aspects of the software are basically static among the versions, so saving down isn't a real stretch.  They would need to come up with a proxy that can handle any errors in saving back.

Little has changed in the FamEdit realm in the past few years.  I mean yeah, we have the ever popular Swept Blend feature, and the reporting parameters, but really, there have been no breakthroughs.  If it runs into a swept blend, it could block it as a nurb, and I would be perfectly happy to lose the ever useful reporting parameters in favor of saving down a notch.  I love working in 2011, I think its the best version yet, but since I am managing a Manufacturer Based Content Library (ARCAT), I need to make sure that EVERYONE can use my goods, not just those on subscription.

My 2 Cents.

[Anonymous]

Sigh,

I just wrote a short novel rebutting many of the blahs in here, then realised that this place is just for blowing off steam...

Tweeeeeeet!