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Printing scale. 100% is not 100%

44 REPLIES 44
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Message 1 of 45
ChrisBriley
16226 Views, 44 Replies

Printing scale. 100% is not 100%

I've seen this question asked a few times in the group and there is no answer as yet.  I'm trying to print a 24x36 sheet.  when 100% zoom is selected (in both places, setup AND properties) It prints out with a slightly reduced scale so that on large dimensions it's quite noticeable.  At quarter scale 26'-0" = 25'-6".  

 

I had a meeting with a client who brings her own scale to meetings and suffered embarrassment when I had to tell her I still can't plot to scale yet with my new software.  "Sounds like your new software isnt very good."  she said.  Right now I have to agree.  

 

What gives?

44 REPLIES 44
Message 2 of 45
scott_d_davis
in reply to: ChrisBriley

Likely it's not Revit that is the issue....it's your printer.  Some printers will not print to the edge of a sheet of paper, and if you have a line at the edge of your titleblock that represents the edge of the sheet, the printer will "force" this inside the margin of the printer, thus reducing the scale of your print. I would remove any linework that is a rectangle at 24x36.  You don't need a line that represents the paper size.  Then Print to "Zoom 100%" in Revit, not Fit to Page.  You *may* have to use the "offset from corner" settings to position the sheet where you need.  Check your printer settings as well...can you set the paper margins to 0"?  Ultimately our software doesn't do anything we don't tell it to do. 🙂

 

Additionally, I would begin to question anyone who still scales off paper drawings.  Revit is extremely accurate.  If a client needs to know a dimension not on the printed drawings, then open Revit and check the dimension in the model.

 

 



Scott D Davis
Sr AEC Technical Specialist
Message 3 of 45
ChrisBriley
in reply to: scott_d_davis

Funny how my "printer's" issue only reveals itself with Revit.  I've removed all linework near the edge of the sheet and still have the scale problem.  (Though I realize it is only in the horrizontal direction).

 

Additionally, I question any company who doesn't really think the importance of accuracy of a drawing printed or otherwise is not a a big deal.

 

This is still an open issue for me.

Message 4 of 45
scott_d_davis
in reply to: ChrisBriley

Would you please send me screen shots of your print settings in Revit? 

 

Secondly, I'm an individual, that happens to be part of a company.  You can question me, as the opinion I expressed was clearly my view, and does not necessarily reflect the company's view, considering the software is extremely accurate.  I worked for a long time in Architecture, and scaling off of drawings is a pet-peeve of mine.  Scaling off of drawings, whether hand-drafted or computer drafted is subject to so many errors, including those introduced by a myriad of plotters and plot/print drivers that are out there.  Accuracy is hugely important, and that's why when we model in Revit, we draw everything at real-world dimensions.  The model is extremely accurate (if the user has input it correctly), and thus any measurements and dimensions should be aquired from the model, not by laying a plastic ruler (which in itself has an innaccuracy tolerance) against a printed piece of paper that is relying on more software to translate form to ink or toner through mechanica/electrical means (that are also built to a tolerance) spit out onto a piece of paper. Then which the person reading the number off the scale can mistakenly interpret the wrong number.  My rule was: never, ever, scale off a printed drawing.

 

Ultimately your printed drawing is "accurate", just not to a scale that the piece of plastic is designed to interpret. 

 

Have you filed a Support Request for this issue?  That's the best means to getting it resolved for you.



Scott D Davis
Sr AEC Technical Specialist
Message 5 of 45
ChrisBriley
in reply to: scott_d_davis

I'm glad you're passionate about accuracy, since that's why I'm posting here.  While I agree 100% with asking everyone (clients and builders) to not scale off the drawings for accurate measurements, I'd like the ultra-super-accuracte Revit, to be able to produce a drawing that is not embarrasingly inaccurate!!! 

 

We have submitted a support request.  We will try to resolve it there. 

Message 6 of 45
lautstim
in reply to: ChrisBriley

We were having the same issue with a local contractor and his crew measuring the prints for distances and such, from there it went to subcontractors, and estimators at local business creating job material quotes.  I kept trying to explain the errors generated by measuring the prints and even went so far as back in the days of hand-drawing/blueprinting.  They looked at me like I was well, did not know what I was talking about.  I even went farther back to the days of my tech school studing building construction, NOT TO USE BLUEPRINTS FOR MEASUREMENTS.......To make a long story short we used what you suggested and ha, it measured out with the scale.  Maybe they need to learn to read the print, perhaps.

 

Tim

Message 7 of 45
atbattson
in reply to: ChrisBriley

I have a question relating to this. 

I am new to Revit. In AutoCAD, when creating a new plotter pc3 you can create one from scratch and have AutoCAD print a box of a set size. It will then print the box and you can check the actual printed result. You then enter the actual printed results for the printer you are setting up the pc3 for and AutoCAD will ajust all prints to those differences so printed drawings are accurate. 

I want to be able to do this in Revit.

So my question is. Can I do this with Revit. I.E create a pc3 file of sorts but more importantly print a test area and be able to enter the print results?

 

Sincerely

Alastair 

 

Message 8 of 45
loboarch
in reply to: atbattson

There is nothign like this in Revit.  Revit leverages the Windows printing system to generate output.  Printing at 100% scale in the print setup should produce accurate results.  You could draw a box in Revit and then print it at 100% and measure to check the accuracy I suppose.



Jeff Hanson
Principal Content Experience Designer
Revit Help |
Message 9 of 45
loboarch
in reply to: ChrisBriley

You can change the print setup in Revit to print something other than 100%.  You could adjust that percentage to account for however the OCE printer is off.



Jeff Hanson
Principal Content Experience Designer
Revit Help |
Message 10 of 45
scott_d_davis
in reply to: ChrisBriley

If I were you I'd call my OCE rep to come in and recalibrate m plotter. The problem is, from my understanding, due to the fact that an OCE plotter has a heated drum. The paper expands due to heat as the paper rolls through and as it cools after printing the scale is off due to contraction. IMO that's a printer problem, not a Revit or Autodesk problem.


Scott D Davis
Sr AEC Technical Specialist
Message 11 of 45
jandrews407
in reply to: ChrisBriley

Did you ever resolve this?  We are having the same issue with horizontal dimensions.

Message 12 of 45
atbattson
in reply to: jandrews407

Not really. The response from AutoDesk was not the best. But the outcome was, no you cannot effect the printed output from Revit like you can with AutoCAD. The suggestions for percentages does not help. The problem is not proportionally even. The only output I could get what I wanted is to export the drawing from Revit to CAD and print it out on my Calibrate plot PC3 file. A lot of work for a basic need. The response I got from AutoDesk was rather defensive, smacked of denial, definite rejection of the need and generally not helpful, so I assume that nothing will change to fix this issue as I see it. Hope that helps at least explain where it stands. Alastair. This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information. If you are NOT the intended recipient, please notify the sender promptly by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments. Wilson Butler Architects Inc. disclaims any liability or obligation arising from the unintended or improper use of any attachments, as well as from any electronic viruses, and any recipient using this message or any attachment for other than their proper and intended purpose releases Wilson Butler Architects Inc. from any claim of damage arising from such use. Certain attachments are copyrighted instruments of service of Wilson Butler Architects Inc and governed and protected by the laws of the United States and by the current edition of the AIA B141 Owner Architect Agreement.
Message 13 of 45
jandrews407
in reply to: jandrews407

That's not realy a solution, it's a work around.  Not a very good one at that!

 

Thanks for responding.

 

Jon

Message 14 of 45
kwhite
in reply to: ChrisBriley

Chris - I have been using Revit for a number of years now (7+), after having used AutoCAD for 14+ years before that.  I remember my frustration when trying to set everything up for my office and the differences between Revit setup options and AutoCAD setup options, so I feel your pain.  However, through all of the setup work and production years thereafter, I have never experienced an issue with Revit creating plots that were not 100% to scale and accurate based on the settings that I used in my page setup(s).  

 

Regarding your issues, are you printing directly to the printer/plotter, or are you creating files such as PDFs, DWFs, and etc. that you then submit to the printer separately?  I personally have always created PDFs or DWFs that I then send to the printer/plotter and these files are always 100% spot on unless I made a mistake in the options I chose.  I also have to say that I have a rectangle around my "sheet" and this has never been a problem for me because I always print to 100% and center the sheet when printing full size sheets.  The plotter however may shift the sheet a little due to the limitations of the hardware as mentioned in the previous posts, but I am ok with one or two of the "Sheet" lines being truncated as long as the remainder of the sheet is correct.  I also chose to keep the paper boundary so that plotting software and viewing software do not shift the graphics when viewing the sheet.

 

If you are creating PDFs or DWFs, I recommend that you open the files and use one of the available measuring tools within them to see if the digital files are being created at the correct scale/size.  If these files are scaling correct in the digital file, then the problem must be between the print file creation and the printed paper output which will have to be either in some computer setting or printer setting or hardware limitation.  

 

Also, throughout the previous posts, i don't recall seeing if the problem was with the whole sheet or only with view port scaling.  There is a very big difference between the two issues.  Whole sheet scaling issues are one thing, but having viewports not scale correctly is another and very big deal in my opinion.

 

Lastly, I saw one of the previous posts mention an Oce plotter.  I have been using an Oce plotter (TDS 600) for the entire time that I have been using Revit.  I don't beleive that I ever remember getting errors and definitely not the percentage error results that you mentioned in your posts.  The only issues that I have had with the oce plotter, was with text shifting within a DWF file which was caused by the Oce software (Publisher/Client Tools) interpreting text incorrectly when a width factor other than 1 was used, and very thin lines being washed out (until Oce published an updated set of tools).

 

I am interested to see your responses to the comments/questions above.  I hope you get this resolved because any time you do not trust the output of your software, you are in for continuous stress without relief.

 

I have also attached a screen capture of a typical print setup for me.

 

Keith White

 

Message 15 of 45
heterarch
in reply to: kwhite

This is an interesting thread to find..  I was actually trying to find an explanation for why Revit prints so much more accurately than AutoCAD did, in terms of its communication with the printer, or its inherent software coding..  Was surprised to find people complaining that they were having problems.  I work for a limestone fabricator, where I have to print 1:1 patterns for use in cutting the real stone to better than 1/16th accuracy, and have thus far not had any problems.  Whereas with AutoCAD we used to have to go through that whole calibration setup and make sure every pattern was printed using that setup, with Revit, it's just print and go..  

 

So again, not to fly in the face of those having problems here, what I actually would like to know is what is the difference between AutoCAD and Revit that makes Revit print so much more accurately?

Message 16 of 45
atbattson
in reply to: heterarch

So far as I know, Revit is no better at printing accurately. All Revit does
is send the print direct to the print driver. I imagine when AutoCAD was
written there was a greater use of measuring and relying on printed
drawings. Printers were also not very good at accuracy in the past as well.
Both of those factors lead to the additional calibration .pc3 files with
CAD.

I would guess there were other factors as to why your AutoCAD files would
print badly in the past. But I do not know.

The benefit of AutoCAD?s calibration was that you were able to compensate
for printer deficiencies and inaccuracies that you could not fix in a
printer calibration. We have a black and white OCE laser and its prints
across the width are off slightly. We have been told by OCE we cannot fix
that slight difference. AutoCAD calibration allows CAD prints to be
adjusted to compensate.

I make physical ?real? models at the office I work at. I use print outs to
make parts by hand on machines. We use prints from color lasers, color
inkjet plotters, black and white plotters. All are a little different. The
AutoCAD calibration helped to get the 3 prints the same, or close.

A few times in office I have worked in, we had a laser printer that was a ?
of an inch off compared to the HP color plotter. That leaves large gaps in
models that are unacceptable.

--
--------------
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information. If
you are NOT the intended recipient, please notify the sender promptly by
return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments. Wilson Butler
Architects Inc. disclaims any liability or obligation arising from the
unintended or improper use of any attachments, as well as from any
electronic viruses, and any recipient using this message or any attachment
for other than their proper and intended purpose releases Wilson Butler
Architects Inc. from any claim of damage arising from such use. Certain
attachments are copyrighted instruments of service of Wilson Butler
Architects Inc and governed and protected by the laws of the United States
and by the current edition of the AIA B141 Owner Architect Agreement.
Message 17 of 45
RMDdesignsLLC
in reply to: ChrisBriley

I hope the answer to this question had been addressed since 2008.  I recently purchased the Revit LT and I'm prepping for a meeting with a Client tomorrow.  I noticed that I am getting my drawings printing at different scale, depending on whether I use ANSI C or oversized ANSI C and both are not even the correct scale!


@ChrisBriley wrote:

I've seen this question asked a few times in the group and there is no answer as yet.  I'm trying to print a 24x36 sheet.  when 100% zoom is selected (in both places, setup AND properties) It prints out with a slightly reduced scale so that on large dimensions it's quite noticeable.  At quarter scale 26'-0" = 25'-6".  

 

I had a meeting with a client who brings her own scale to meetings and suffered embarrassment when I had to tell her I still can't plot to scale yet with my new software.  "Sounds like your new software isnt very good."  she said.  Right now I have to agree.  

 

What gives?


I hope the answer to this question had been addressed since 2008.  I recently purchased the Revit LT and I'm prepping for a meeting with a Client tomorrow.  I noticed that I am getting my drawings printing at different scale, depending on whether I use ANSI C or oversized ANSI C and both are not even the correct scale!

Message 18 of 45
tofutim
in reply to: RMDdesignsLLC

I am printing to a Brother laser printer from Revit. I also tried printing to a PDF and printing from that. All 100%'s are set up correctly. A line that is supposed to be 6" measures 5-15/16"

Message 19 of 45
ericgarlez
in reply to: ChrisBriley

Can't believe autodesk, expensive as is their products, not give a final solution about this topic. And is so ridiculous to read some like this: "My rule was: never, ever, scale off a printed drawing." -davissc-
Some drawings are made specifically as a template for cutting, modeling other stuff etc. User, client, everybody needs 100% accuracy.

 

Message 20 of 45
ToanDN
in reply to: ericgarlez

Can you post a PDF that was printed to scale?

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