Keynote Standards

[amason43]

Our office standard is for the keynotes on each sheet to be sequentially numbered (e.g., 1-25).  See the attached image for an example from a roof plan.  Based on my research so far, I have not found a way to do this in Revit.  The closest I have seen is to have a master project list, which would result in separated numbers (e.g., 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42...).  This is unacceptable to my boss.  Is it possible to do what I'm hoping for?

[ccollins]

You might try using a Note Block instead?

Sound like perhaps "smart Keynotes" are not what you are after?

cheers

[amason43]

With a note block is there a way to associate the number in the note block to the number in the callout in the view, so that if one changes the other changes also?  That's really all I'm looking for, not necessarily 'tagging' objects.

[ccollins]

You might take a look here:

http://docs.autodesk.com/REVIT/2011/ENU/filesUsersGuide/WS1a9193826455f5ffff8c2a10d68757bb5-7e50.htm

cheers

[alan.quinn]

I agree with ccollins in that “smart keynotes are not what you are after”. In past experience I have used both office standards and industry standards; however in either case we never change the numbers.

I have included the below link that you may want to share with your boss on Keynoting.

http://docs.autodesk.com/REVIT/2011/ENU/filesUsersGuide/WS1a9193826455f5ff4d2e22109db342701-7fdd.htm

I would appreciate it if you would let me know if this answers your question. If it doesn't, please reply with more information about what you are trying to do so that I can provide a better answer.

Thank you,

[Alfredo_Medina]

Keynote settings > Numbering method > By sheet

That will give you consecutive keynote numbers by sheet. Is that what you are trying to do?

[bt1138]

Alan:

Are there any plans to enhance the keynoting?

In particular, the external 'text' file with the keynotes is just so not easy to work with. Or maybe I don't understand the reason why it is set up that way in the first place.

Any hope that this system will get a refresh at some point?

bt

(we use note blocks by the way. they are not great, but are easier to work with than the keynoting is for us)

[loboarch]

The note block is probably the way to go, to create close to what you are looking for.  The note block will not be able to have the view callouts like your example automatically update.  You would probably have to create some kind of generic annotation that you could place near/on the note block.  Of course this would have to be manually updated.

I have attached a PDF of an older tutorial that was published for 2009 covering how to create note blocks.  Some of the icons might be different, you might have to hunt for the commands, but they are all still there somewhere.  I am also attaching the note block tag family that was created for this tutorial so you can have a look at it.  The dataset used in the tutorial is too large to attach but it really does not matter as you can use the note block on any project and still go through the tutorial.

[alan.quinn]

I’m not sure what’s in store for Keynoting in the future, but I can tell you the following; In my last firm (250+) we had one person that handled all Keynoting updates. At the start of each project we copied the Master Keynoting txt file to the project folder and re-named to including the project number. Any updates that were needed were passed along to the above mentioned person and the file was updated. This way project specific items only appeared where and when required. Eventually if you do this for several different types of architectural projects you will have a set of Keynoting txt files that can easily be applied/updated to the project type at hand. I understand that getting info Keynoting is somewhat of an uphill grind, but I believe you will see the benefits in the not too distant future.

In the mean time I have included a link where you may leave comments on what you would like to see in upcoming version of the application.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=1109794

I would appreciate it if you would let me know if this answers your question. If it doesn't, please reply with more information about what you are trying to do so that I can provide a better answer.

Thank you,

[amason43]

Does this apply to Keynote Legends, or Note Blocks?  Consecutive numbers by sheet is what I want, but changing that setting didn't filter anything out of my Keynote Legend.

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@Alfredo_Medina wrote:

Keynote settings > Numbering method > By sheet

That will give you consecutive keynote numbers by sheet. Is that what you are trying to do?

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[Alfredo_Medina]

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@amason43 wrote:

Does this apply to Keynote Legends, or Note Blocks?  Consecutive numbers by sheet is what I want, but changing that setting didn't filter anything out of my Keynote Legend.

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The Keynote Legend itself must be filtered by sheets as well, but you won't notice the changes in the schedule view. Then, you insert the same keynote legend into multiple sheets, and it will show only the keynotes used on that particular sheet, in a consecutive order.  See illustration.

[amason43]

Ah, ok.  Got that to work.  Now, how do I:

1. Enter data into the 'Keynote Text' field, since it is grayed out.

2. Renumber keys.

[amason43]

Ok, I set up a tab-delimited .txt file.  Seems to be working initially, though I will be testing it out.  Using 'User Keynotes' and pointing to the entries in the file.  I don't see a way to renumber, but that's not too crucial at this point.  Any way to enclose the keynote number (in the legend) in a symbol so that it appears graphically the same as it does in the view?

[Alfredo_Medina]

The task of renumbering is taken care of by the choices of "Filter by sheet" (in the schedule) and "Numbering method by sheet" (in Keynote settings). You just tag your elements, and the keynote schedule will show a "master list", that will display different on every sheet. The idea is that whatever number is in the keynote file is overriden by a consecutive number by order of ocurrence, and by sheet.

No, there is no way to add a simbol around the number in the legend, since it's basically a schedule, and schedules don't allow any kind of graphics. It would be good to have that feature.

[bt1138]

Thanks for the reply Alan.

Most of our projects are renovation and rehab. So most of our notes are not:

'09900-paint-glossy'.

They are more like:

'remove window 37 and re-install in new location as shown, patch (e) materials as reqd - see struct for reinf. of new cut opening'

These notes will clearly never move beyond the project they are developed for. So we use note blocks. We'd probably be happy with enhancements to the notes blocks, if ADESK is happy with the remote keynote file idea. 

Or why not set up Revit to have an option, per project, to use an external keynote file, or to use an internal keynote file? And then have an option to import / export such keynote files. Seems simple enough, but hey, I'm not a software engineer so who knows. Perhaps I'll post that to the suggestions web site, as you suggest. 

bt

[amason43]

bt,

I followed the outline in this post (http://cad-vs-bim.blogspot.com/2010/08/keynotes-how-to-use-abuse-system-how-to.html) and combined it with what I've learned in this thread.  I'm pretty happy with the results and am using User Keynotes along with the Keynote Legend.  My keynotes on each sheet are numbered sequentially beginning at 1, and are filtered to only include the keynotes on that sheet.

And now, of course, after typing that out I may have found a (potentially?) fatal flaw.  I'm not sure how this will work in post-approval documents.  Typically for those we will issue an A or B size sheet including only the portion of the overall sheet that was modified from the original approved set.  I'm assuming this would be accomplished by creating a dependent view, adjusting the crop boundary, and placing on the new smaller sheet.  The problem that happens here is that when a view is placed on multiple sheets (even if it's a dependent view) the keynote loses its number, both in the original view and the dependent view.  I suppose a solution would be to 'Copy with Detailing' but then any changes need to be done for each view, and that's not at all ideal.

[jayzallan9191]

I wonder if the "User" keynote application is giving you those issues. We have NOT found similar loss of info, but it's hard to know why they arose for you... Hmmm...

-J

   Painting Sculpture Design

     
    Fear & Loathing in a CAD-vs.-BIM World

[amason43]

Jay -

It could be caused by the User Keynote method.  I'm wondering if I should switch to using element and material instead.  I think one of the big issues now is how they are organized in the keynote file.  It seemed to make the most sense to organize by drawing type (floor plan, elevation, section, etc.), so similar notes are grouped.  Do you have any good examples of how to organize the list?  I thought about CSI format, but that doesn't really apply to element, assembly or instructional notes.

[jayzallan9191]

I have used several methods to organize these custom keynote sub-lists, including similar methods to the 'sheet' type you cited. I have used Construction tasks, etc. as well such as Demo, etc.

Bottom line in my experience is that there is no 'one way' and it may be that we have several 'standard' custom keynote databases (to start with) for use in their appropriate place(s). Project specifics also seem to require editing of most 'standard' ones as well, so I have no specific, fixed list (that isn't proprietary :-)).

One idea is to group them by assembly, or object groupings (but not uniformat or csi since the regular KN database handles them) often I try for a more general organization, opposed to those others:

• WL   Walls
• FL    Floors
• FI     Finishes
• etc...

Point being, since these are object/assembly based, not sheet/view type based... one can call out walls on a floor plan, elevation and/or detail etc. so we find more flexibility using this workflow...