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I want to set a simple rectangular box on it's edge.

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Message 1 of 16
adave
856 Views, 15 Replies

I want to set a simple rectangular box on it's edge.

For well over a week, I have tried everything that I can to simply tilt a rectangular solid (4' x 8' x 4" thick).

 

I've determined that it is impossible to do!

15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: adave

Please keep the discussion in its original thread. I think you have started 3 threads about the same issue?

 

No, it is not impossible. If I understand the situation correctly, you want a roof based panel, that can be tilted to a certain orientation, so that the panel is hosted by the roof, but not parallel to the roof.

 

In that case, one possible solution is to use 2 families, like this:

 

The first family is a generic model family with a reference line and rotation parameter from the left view. In this view you can make an extrusion, then rotate it as per the same angle of the reference line, and then associate the extrusion to the reference line by editing the extrusion's work-plane, selecting the reference line.

 

The second family is a roof based model family, in which the first family should be nested into, and placed on the upper surface of the roof. The rotation angle from the first family needs to be tied to a local tilt angle parameter in the host family.

 

Then, in the project, the panels are hosted by the roof, but each panel has an instance parameter for tilting the panel to a certain angle, making them not parallel to the slope of the roof.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 3 of 16
adave
in reply to: Alfredo_Medina

Sorry, I let frustration get the better of me. Who would have thought.  I'm impressed by both the power of Revit, and also how difficult it is to overcome the learning curve.  Some of the simplest operations can be nearly impossibly counter-intuitive.

 

I tried your first suggested numerous times, using as many different angles of attack as I could.

 

I don't understand what you are saying with your second suggestion.

 

I've come to realize that the main problem I am having is how reference planes and reference lines. I haven't found any good tutorials yet on this subject, but will keep looking.  Help in Revit seems to be weak on explaining how to deal with reference lines/planes. 

 

Also, it seems that Revit needs a "command line" type listing to show you the status of the present operation.  It's been a while since I used Autocad, but remember that they had one, so that you knew your exact status at any given time.

 

Anyway, thanks for your help in trying to resolve this.  I'm going to move on to something else.   One version of Murphy's Law states that if you struggle with something long enough and then drop it until you're no longer interested, the solution will fall into your lap.

 

 

 

Message 4 of 16
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: adave

The attached illustration refers to the workflow described in my previous post. I hope it helps.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 5 of 16
adave
in reply to: Alfredo_Medina

I notice that you have a component named "rp" under "generic components"  family.   I do not see such a component in my libraries.  Did you create it?   I found a solar panel under "sustainable design".  The solar panel choice has no "angle" dialog box with which to change the angle from the host, nor does it allow you to change the host to the reference plane of my choice.  The  host listed is greyed out (so it can't be changed).  In fact, I see no parameters that I can change.  I then created numerous other panels from the "system" panel, and they all have the same (unmodifiable) properties.

 

BTW, I created a new drawing and started out over again after playing around with reference planes, I drew a new mass (box) on a new reference plane parallel to the plane of the roof, and am still having the exact same problem (tiltson the axis I DON'T want it to, but not on the axis I want it to).

Message 6 of 16
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: adave

Yes, the example shown in the illustration is all done from scratch. This kind of rotation usually does not come bult-in in windows or panel families. You would have to make it yourself. This case of yours has some difficulty, because you want a roof-based panel that can be tilted away from the surface of the roof. As I said, it's not easy but it is possible.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 7 of 16
adave
in reply to: Alfredo_Medina

Your last two statements, my friend, are an understatement!

Message 8 of 16
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: adave

Believe, it has some difficulty, but once you understand, it does not take too long to do this. Attached is the project file for you to study.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 9 of 16
adave
in reply to: Alfredo_Medina

Thanks for the practice file - just loaded it in and took a quick look.  I'll play around with it some more tomorrow.   It seems easy when I use your file to do what I want to do, but begs the question: what steps did you follow  create these "tiltable" panels?

 

I will try to save your panels as  a new "family" item into my practice file as a first step.  Maybe something will become clear then...

Message 10 of 16
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: adave

I think the steps are already written in message # 2 above.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 11 of 16
adave
in reply to: Alfredo_Medina

... and, as written in message #3,  I tried the first (wouldn't let me do it); and the second made no sense to me.  I am early enough in the learning curve, that many of the things that you mention require prerequisite knowledge that I don't have. I guess what  I'm asking for is a procedure, with logical steps, to accomplish this simple task.  

 

In the absence of these procedures, I'll concentrate on reference lines and planes, and how component placement constraints work.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Message 12 of 16
adave
in reply to: adave

OK, after looking at "Project Roof",  I see that you've created a new component "Panel w tilt".  I think I can now formulate  questions that might make sense:

 

1. How did you initiate creation of this panel, i.e., did you load an existing component (solar panel) from  "Sustainable Design" family, and modify it?  If so, how did you modify it ( I see nothing significant that can be modified, other than size and name), and how did you save it into a newly created component family (New Specialty Equipment) so that it could be used in this and OTHER projects? (there is no "save as" option).

 

I don't see an option to modify and/or add parameters in the "edit type" screen.  I can change the size, and save it under a new name, but there are no "tilt", "host", or other parameters that I can add or change.  How did you create them?

 

I know that there is a procedure to do this, but can't seem to find it anywhere in the documentation that I've read.  I have read through the "All in the Families" document, which has a good conceptual explanation, but, sadly, the steps they call out don't match my ribbon bar commands, and leave out other key steps in the process.

 

Thanks!

Message 13 of 16
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: adave

The learning process has to happen gradually, step by step. In another post of today, you are asking where the Reference lines button is. However, in this thread, you ask yourself why you don't understand my steps for making a roof based panel that can tilt away from the surface of the roof. I see a discrepancy between the two threads.

 

You need to go step by step, understanding the basics first, then, you migrate into problems of an intermediate level of difficulty, then, you will be able to solve the advanced problems. But I see that you are trying to solve an advanced issue without even having learned the basics yet. That's not the way.

 


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 14 of 16
adave
in reply to: Alfredo_Medina

...and the only way I can learn is to ask specific questions.  I would love it if they had a "newbie" subcategory for those just starting out, but they don't (or it's hidden somewhere), so I have to ask specific questions. Seems to me that I have been asking about the proper basic methods all along in these threads, and get well meaning, but piecemeal answers.

 

I run a small company, and as such, wear many hats, including being my own "draftsman".  As such, I have limited time to learn software, and limited budget that doesn't allow flying somewhere to take a course.    I recently purchased Revit, but had no idea how steep the learning curve is.   It has finally dawned upon me.   I was looking for a logical path to learn Revit, but as far as I can see, it's not there! If I was working at Autodesk, I might have a large, clearly marked button saying "New to Revit - Start HERE".  This would lead one to a clearly delineated choice of paths to choose from in order to learn specific aspects software in a logical fashion.  There are a lot of resources, but I had to search for them.

 

I am not complaining, just trying to make a point.  I appreciate the effort that you and others make in helping us "noobs", but perhaps pointing us to the proper introductory tutorials and resources would be a better strategy.

 

An example - I have now spent 3 weeks trying to figure out how to place a solar panel on a roof in the proper orientation. I started out thnking that it would be almost trivially easy (WOW, was I ever mistaken!).

 

Ok, that being said;  If I were asked by someone how to tilt the panel, I might describe the following steps within Revit that are important for one to be able to perform this task:

 

1. To place a solar panel (or any other specific component) in a specific orientation, you need to understand how to use Revit "Families".  Families in Revit  contain specific premade components, grouped into the "Families",  that can be placed in your project  drawing.  Please read the following guide to learn more about Revit component families:

 

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=13376394

 

2. Once you have familiarized yourself with how to place components within the context of "families", watch the following video, which shows how to modify, and save,  family components to meet the requirements of your particular project at:

 

http://revitclinic.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/05/rotational-parameters-and-facebased-nested-families...

 

3.  If the above guidance doesn't help, look under "Support" on the Autodesk website, and look for Autocad University, Revit Clnic, (etc.) for more guidance.   If you are having trouble with any of these resources, please formulate a specific question and post it in this discussion thread.

 

***************************************************************************************************************************************

 

Thanks again for  your help, and if your still working, you need to shut it down and take it easy for the holiday!

 

Merry Xmas, All!

 

 

 

 

 

Message 15 of 16
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: adave

Well, but think about this: If your first thread is about how to rotate a roof based solar panel away from the surface of the roof, we are not going to reply to you with the basic instructions about families, because the question implied that you were familiar with families already but just needed to know how to tilt a roof-based family.

 

Later on, we learned that you were not familiar with families; then you asked for a procedure, but if the procedure involves topics such as nesting families and tying parameters, then it's not going to make sense to you, as it didn't, if you don't have the basics, such as how to use reference planes and lines. hence the suggestion to start slowly, step by step.

 

There is a lot of information and links to other resouces, if you just type "families" in the Help search inside Revit. Did you start there?

 

Today, you don't have to fly or drive to take training, as you said. There is also online training, on families, that you can take at your own home or office.

 

Even though forums are an excellent resource, they cannot be a replacement for training. Forums are more about advice and troubleshooting, especially, of those things not covered in any training, book, or tutorial.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 16 of 16
adave
in reply to: Alfredo_Medina

Your point is well made and  accepted, I forgot to mention in this thread that I'm a "Noob". 

 

HOWEVER (and this is not a criticism of you)  I still think that Autodesk could liberally sprinkle a prominent "New to Revit - Start HERE"  button throughout the website, in order to save both "noobs", and experienced users such as yourself, the kind of troubles we have encountered.  This should be one of the first things that someone who has recently purchased Revit should see when they first access online help.  Under such a button, there could be a "tree" of choices for the noob to choose from.  As I said before, these resources exist, but to someone using the support site for the first time, it's not apparent where to start. I sure couldn't find them until I did extensive searches, and, even then, I didn't even know what to look for until very late in our coorespondence.

 

As a matter of fact, if any Autodesk Programmers are listening (probably not, maybe I should contact them), I would also place this button under the "Help" tab IN THE PROGRAM ITSELF, and have it link to a "noob" help page, because experienced programmers and noobs need to access different resources.

 

Thanks again - as far as I'm concerned, this thread is complete.

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