Future of Revit

[Anonymous]

an architect in my family with
15 years in the business and usually
employing 4 to 6 CAD drafters told
me after christmas dinner that
the foreseeable future for revit
will only be for large complex
projects like hospitals and 100
story buildings- and that AutoCAD
will be used for everything else..

his favorite program is ADT 2004-
and says he doesn't know of a single
engineer who doesn't use AutoCAD..

he says the only reason there will soon
be 400,000 seats of revit is because
autodesk pushes that program on
everyone and his copy of revit has
just been sitting on the shelf like
everyone else's..

[Anonymous]

"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:6309829@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Just what _else_ could
> they have done to improve the program?

an XML-based content browser?

[Anonymous]

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:49:12 -0800, caLayton wrote:

>"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
>news:6309829@discussion.autodesk.com...
>> Just what _else_ could
>> they have done to improve the program?
>
>an XML-based content browser?
>

DANGIT STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS

Matt
matt@stachoni.com

[Anonymous]

On 12/28/2009 2:49 PM, caLayton wrote:
> "Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
> news:6309829@discussion.autodesk.com...
>
>> Just what _else_ could
>> they have done to improve the program?
>>
> an XML-based content browser?
>
>

Laugh it up, Layton. It's all fun and games until it actually gets
implemented.
.-)

[Anonymous]

Definition of BIM from the National BIM Standard:

"BIM is...a digital representation of physical and
functional characteristics of a facility...and a
shared knowledge resource for information about
a facility.."

in other words-

BIM is just a computer simulation program for
constructing buildings and providing that construction
information to anyone concerned- and guess what the
name of that program is- hint- it starts with an R..

and look at those people trying to spin a
definition for BIM that fits their social agenda..
same people that are trying to put lawn and windmills
on the roof.. lol

[Anonymous]

What part of "representation" equates to "program" in your head?

Never mind... why am I bothering?

--

"Vector2" wrote in message news:6309866@discussion.autodesk.com...
Definition of BIM from the National BIM Standard:

"BIM is...a digital representation of physical and
functional characteristics of a facility...and a
shared knowledge resource for information about
a facility.."

in other words-

BIM is just a computer simulation program for
constructing buildings and providing that construction
information to anyone concerned- and guess what the
name of that program is- hint- it starts with an R..

and look at those people trying to spin a
definition for BIM that fits their social agenda..
same people that are trying to put lawn and windmills
on the roof.. lol Edited by: Discussion_Admin on Dec 29, 2009 11:14 AM

[Anonymous]

i'm so glad they got the ribbon done first too-
except i would be just as happy if they
would have left it the way it was..

but who knows- i'm probably going to like
the ribbon for 2011 and regret i ever said
anything about it.. OMG that's only four
months away..

[Anonymous]

seriously- we need to establish a BIM process-
a way to do business with revit and deliver
projects.. Edited by: Discussion_Admin on Dec 29, 2009 11:17 AM

[Anonymous]

yes we need to talk about ways to do business with
revit.. i think i have read just about every idea for a
BIM workflow- but i see it's still unsettled..

the idea i'm working on at the moment has to do
with a revit model builder- separate from- but working
with- everyone else on the project..

sure the model builder might also be the architect
and the engineer and the building contractor- and
do it all themselves- but not usually..

any thoughts?

[Anonymous]

talk about being where the action is- OMG..

this is not just one of hundreds of forums
talking about BIM and revit- this IS autodesk
revit..

this is where BIM was virtually invented..
this is where revit has evolved from a simple
program back in 2001 into a revolution in
architecture..

this is the basket i'm putting ALL my eggs in..

[Anonymous]

? -> http://www.vicosoftware.com/

Vector2 wrote:
> yes we need to talk about ways to do business with
> revit.. i think i have read just about every idea for a
> BIM workflow- but i see it's still unsettled..
>
> the idea i'm working on at the moment has to do
> with a revit model builder- separate from- but working
> with- everyone else on the project..
>
> sure the model builder might also be the architect
> and the engineer and the building contractor- and
> do it all themselves- but not usually..
>
> any thoughts?

[ToanDN]

Does said family member like fishing? He is a pro.
If he is real.

[Anonymous]

I've been in the business for a little over 8 years and have seen the word BIM come into my everyday vocabulary where just a couple years ago everyone was saying "BIM what?" I truley hate Revit, but that doesnt mean its never going to be big or manditory. Since its the way everything is going so I am going to learn it and learn to love it , it is hard to kick those old AutoCAD habits.

I have seen projects coming in over the past year where the owner is requiring BIM, but not Revit, they want all want Triforma. I thought I was going to hurl when I saw that RFP come in.

[Anonymous]

jhuman-

AutoCAD has many uses working with revit..

just think of revit as an extension of your drafting
skills.. you didn't really think improvements in
drafting was just going to stop as soon as
you learned AutoCAD i hope.. because it's
never going to stop and you will always need
to keep up with new tools and methods..

architecture is vast and complex and you
never stop learning.. and you knew that
when you went into architecture..

in architecture you have to know the
most and get paid the least.. but that's
because we think it's fun.. i think it's fun..

[LisaDrago]

My two cents... for what it is worth

The biggest thing I have seen and am working with people on is what BIM is.
BIM is NOT Revit and Revit is NOT BIM.
Revit is a software.
BIM is a process.
You can use Revit to help you achieve BIM, but Revit is not the only way to BIM.

I have heard people talk about they want BIM.. we need to get BIM. They are miss-informed about what BIM is.
It is collaboration - getting everyone on a project into the process at the start of a project and keeping everyone on the same page as it goes. It is not a relay race with the architects out front and everyone trying to catch up.

So when people start talking about BIM ask them what they mean by it and see what people are thinking.

LD

[Anonymous]

Awesome response! That totally hit it on the head, I do think when we say "BIM" we automatically think of software, in fact good architecture could have been doing BIM for hundreds of years.

[Anonymous]

Lisa-

BIM is a collaboration around a virtual
model in a computer and the information
associated with that model..

without being able to create a virtual model
in a computer there is no BIM..

there are at least two old CAD programs
that were modified to offer some virtual
modeling capabilities- but revit was born
as a BIM application and now has nearly
400,000 seats..

in a practical sense at this time in history-
most people say BIM is Revit..

but in a "politically correct" sense where
all ideas are equal- (except for the supreme
human leader)- any program that can model
a building- or is at least IFC certified- can
call itself a BIM program..

but you can be sure BIM will be heavily used
as a political propaganda platform- as it
already is with the "green" stuff..

[DarrenScheller]

Vector-

Honestly I have spent time today reading your "rants" in these Discussion forums.

Many individuals with many more years experience in the industry have tried to tell you many, many, times.

BIM is not a product you go to the store and select off the shelf.
It has NO known product name, but rather many.
It is indeed a process.

As you half quoted, BIM is defined by the National Institute of Building Sciences as:

"A BIM is a digital representation of physical and functional characteristics of a facility. As such it serves as a shared knowledge resource for information about a facility forming a reliable basis for decisions during its lifecycle from inception onward."

If and when you familiarize yourself with their National BIM Standard, you will see it focus is on the method of exchanging data, and not a specific product.

The concept is not so much what can/can't you do with a specific product, but who and how do you want to come to the BIM field to play, either you can or you can't, play in the BIM arena.

Think of Revit as a headwater of the BIM Stream, yes it’s a great tool and is Dynamic in views and parametric in its use of intelligent object data, but that alone doesen't satisfy the definition of BIM. However it is not the only headwater, there are many. But the real BIM gem, is taking that data from Revit, or any modeling software that can plaly, and utilizing it in as many downstream functions as possible, without re-entering that data manually. These not only include the generation of Constructions Documents, but are more powerful when combined with Engineering tools to "analyze" the buildings capabilities. The "inception" portion of the quote. Take that into the coined 4th and 5th dimensions and you have even more Power at your finger tips, with scheduling and cost estimating, solving the manual data sharing methods of today.

Imagine yourself as a facility management company, such as the GSA or the USACE, and having all this information available to you at one location, ideally that might be back to the Revit model, or as it sits today, the COBIE spreadsheet or even FM software that can read IFC files. But could also very easily be any of the other modeling software packages.

Now we’re getting to the "lifecycle, and onward" portion of the quote, and what the BIM game is really all about. IMHO

And now you no longer see BIM as a specific product, but many many products that can leverage the "I" in BIM.

You personally need to take a step back from your "Pride" and listen, and HEAR what is being told to you.

If you truly want to learn about BIM, and not just Revit.

DS Edited by: Discussion_Admin on Jan 21, 2010 10:54 AM

[Anonymous]

darrenscheller-

i don't know what to say about your strange
way of asking me for an explanation for the
meaning of BIM- but here it is..

BIM is a digital representation of a physical
building that serves as a shared knowledge
resource..

a digital representation is a computer
model of a building..

and shared knowledge resource is a process
of working together on the model..

seems pretty simple to me..

what else can i tell you?

what part don't you understand?

[Anonymous]

darren-

as i reflect more on what you wrote i see
basically the same thing i see coming from
most CAD minded people..

you are trying to say that revit is not the only
program that a BIM process can be based
on..

i don't know about you specifically- but for many
CAD people- the reason they do this is to
somehow save the old CAD program that
they spent so many years learning.. they want
it to be a BIM application too..

the BIM process (or idea) was fully recognized
by the very early 1990s.. all the CAD software
vendors recognized this immediately.. they all
scrambled to convert or create a BIM capable
program so they wouldn't be left out in the cold..

archicad was the first to convert its old CAD
program to a BIM capable program..

microstation was the second to convert its
CAD program to BIM..

DataCAD tried but has not been successful..

autodesk was much smarter than trying to
convert the AutoCAD to a BIM program-
they wanted to buy (like they always do) a
program that was built for BIM from the ground
up.. and they did- revit..

and apparently archicad and bentley architecture
does work pretty good as a BIM application..

but because revit is now almost at 400,000
seats and it was purpose built for BIM- that's
what the mainstream thinks of as BIM..

but it's not easy to learn.. Edited by: Discussion_Admin on Jan 21, 2010 10:55 AM

[DarrenScheller]

Vector-

You still have tunnel vision that BIM is only modeling software.

Open your mind to the possibilities that the INFORMATION has many valuable uses, outside the physical model.

The Reason for doing this is very clear, cut the in-efficiencies in our industry from concept through de-commissioning of a facility, with respect to data exchange.

The BIM process, not known by that name, has been in use by other industries, very successfully, for much much longer.

It appears to me (and probably many others) you can't see past your piece, and you feel you are doing BIM. Or to give you the benefit of the doubt, that is the message you put out to everyone.

It is not a matter, to most of us, what product we use, but what efficiency we can give to our clients, and what abilities it allows us to leverage in our design to make better, more efficient facilities, and help in maintaining them through their "LIFECYCLE". The BIM PROCESS is what allows us to do that, not a specific product.

Tell me how many times you see "Revit" mentioned in the National BIM Standards, if Revit was BIM that manual would be a how to use, not a data structure for file exchange.

Tell me how many times you see "Revit" in the USACE ERDC TR-06-10 "BIM - A Road Map for Implementation".
Ask Deke Smith, or Bill East "is BIM Revit?" see what you get back.

I am not providing you links that I know you won't use, so go out and do your own research.
You state you want to learn what your getting into with BIM, then listen to the discussions and stop fighting with the industry leads.

DS