Future of Revit

[Anonymous]

an architect in my family with
15 years in the business and usually
employing 4 to 6 CAD drafters told
me after christmas dinner that
the foreseeable future for revit
will only be for large complex
projects like hospitals and 100
story buildings- and that AutoCAD
will be used for everything else..

his favorite program is ADT 2004-
and says he doesn't know of a single
engineer who doesn't use AutoCAD..

he says the only reason there will soon
be 400,000 seats of revit is because
autodesk pushes that program on
everyone and his copy of revit has
just been sitting on the shelf like
everyone else's..

[Anonymous]

Sorry Vector2 I am an architect with over 30 years of experience in the
business and totally disagree with your relative's assertion that Revit will
be only used on large complex projects. There are a number of engineers that
use Revit and their numbers are growing everyday.

Actually, I am quite happy if you continue to spread that propaganda because
it will limit the competition when I go after projects where an enlightened
and educated owner requires the use of Revit.

"Vector2" wrote in message news:6309403@discussion.autodesk.com...
> an architect in my family with
> 15 years in the business and usually
> employing 4 to 6 CAD drafters told
> me after christmas dinner that
> the foreseeable future for revit
> will only be for large complex
> projects like hospitals and 100
> story buildings- and that AutoCAD
> will be used for everything else..
>
> his favorite program is ADT 2004-
> and says he doesn't know of a single
> engineer who doesn't use AutoCAD..
>
> he says the only reason there will soon
> be 400,000 seats of revit is because
> autodesk pushes that program on
> everyone and his copy of revit has
> just been sitting on the shelf like
> everyone else's..

[rlsawn]

I totally agree with CDV - I have also been in the biz for about 30 years... and as an architect, I require my engineers to be on Revit. Oh, and by the way, I do small projects of any where from 30K to 5 Million - ALL on Revit.

Also, In my opinion, Revit allows smaller firms, such as ourselves, to be more competative with the larger ones... that are only using the 2D cad programs. Edited by: rlsawn@pacbell.net on Dec 26, 2009 9:05 AM

[Anonymous]

cdv writes:

"you continue to spread that propaganda"

i wonder what it is about my post that leads cdv
to assume i agree with that person.. lol.. this is a
good reminder that BIM is too advanced to allow
ourselves to be sloppy in what we read..

here is something i wrote from a collection of my
own and other's ideas about BIM..

For much of history, architecture and construction have
relied on drawings from which to build. Those drawings
required multiple views in plan, section and elevation
and multiple scales to represent what the building
would be. Drawings were made with lines, arcs and text,
which could only be interpreted by people.

At its most basic, BIM is the representation of building
information in a computer-readable form. Like the
manufacturing industries that have already completed this
transition, BIM represents a building as a virtual
building within the computer. Each part of the building
is represented as an object, with needed properties and
relations. End users, contractors and fabricators can
walk through the model, seeing every part as it is being
assembled in the computer.

As a result, growing numbers of owners are mandating that
BIM be used on their projects, based on the knowledge that
it leads to fewer errors, lower costs and faster project
delivery.

The building model has replaced drawings, in the same way
that the “horseless carriage” was eventually replaced by
the automobile. The transition to Building Information
Modeling with virtual design and construction is now a
reality.

Although there may continue to be work for those who only
know how to draw- drawing certainly won't be a major activity
in architecture from here on.

[Anonymous]

Vector2 Why would you even bother to share your conversation with someone
that obviously knows very little if anything about the capabilities of
Revit especially in this forum and not expect some kind of reaction. Not
to mention you even title your post the Future of Revit.

I suggest you reserve the use of this forum to ask pertinent questions
regarding using the program and to share your experiences in responding to
some else's questions.

"Vector2" wrote in message news:6309448@discussion.autodesk.com...
> cdv writes:
>
> "you continue to spread that propaganda"
>
> i wonder what it is about my post that leads cdv
> to assume i agree with that person.. lol.. this is a
> good reminder that BIM is too advanced to allow
> ourselves to be sloppy in what we read..
>
> here is something i wrote from a collection of my
> own and other's ideas about BIM..
>
> For much of history, architecture and construction have
> relied on drawings from which to build. Those drawings
> required multiple views in plan, section and elevation
> and multiple scales to represent what the building
> would be. Drawings were made with lines, arcs and text,
> which could only be interpreted by people.
>
> At its most basic, BIM is the representation of building
> information in a computer-readable form. Like the
> manufacturing industries that have already completed this
> transition, BIM represents a building as a virtual
> building within the computer. Each part of the building
> is represented as an object, with needed properties and
> relations. End users, contractors and fabricators can
> walk through the model, seeing every part as it is being
> assembled in the computer.
>
> As a result, growing numbers of owners are mandating that
> BIM be used on their projects, based on the knowledge that
> it leads to fewer errors, lower costs and faster project
> delivery.
>
> The building model has replaced drawings, in the same way
> that the “horseless carriage” was eventually replaced by
> the automobile. The transition to Building Information
> Modeling with virtual design and construction is now a
> reality.
>
> Although there may continue to be work for those who only
> know how to draw- drawing certainly won't be a major activity
> in architecture from here on.

[Anonymous]

cdv-

i think there is a common misconception about
the purpose of this forum..

this is called a "discussion group"..

i think that actually means what it says.. this is
not only for Q and As- (that i answer plenty of)-
but it's also for discussions relevant to revit..

and i'm sorry you don't always pay attention to
what you read and need to make excuses
for why you misunderstood it.. but it's okay
cdv- just think positive..

[Anonymous]

Sorry Vector2, you are disillusioned, I neither misunderstood your post nor
am I making any excuses for anything. I have no intention of carrying this
useless discussion with you any further.

"Vector2" wrote in message news:6309454@discussion.autodesk.com...
> cdv-
>
> i think there is a common misconception about
> the purpose of this forum..
>
> this is called a "discussion group"..
>
> i think that actually means what it says.. this is
> not only for Q and As- (that i answer plenty of)-
> but it's also for discussions relevant to revit..
>
> and i'm sorry you don't always pay attention to
> what you read and need to make excuses
> for why you misunderstood it.. but it's okay
> cdv- just think positive..

[Anonymous]

cdv-

you wrote:

"I have no intention of carrying this useless
discussion with you any further."

why?

[Anonymous]

rlsawn-

you wrote:

"I totally agree with CDV"

totally?

do you agree where someone states
that their favorite program is AutoCAD
and AutoCAD is the future- is "spreading
propaganda"?

[Anonymous]

I would say that your architect relative is wrong. I guess for some people the
"foreseeable future" is a much shorter timeframe than others.

If anything, we're seeing Revit and BIM adoption speeding up at an increased
pace across the board. There might be a few things which are behind the curve
(e.g., Revit MEP) for now but the maturity rate is increasing.

Matt
matt@stachoni.com

On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:32:01 -0800, Vector2 <> wrote:

>an architect in my family with
>15 years in the business and usually
>employing 4 to 6 CAD drafters told
>me after christmas dinner that
>the foreseeable future for revit
>will only be for large complex
>projects like hospitals and 100
>story buildings- and that AutoCAD
>will be used for everything else..
>
>his favorite program is ADT 2004-
>and says he doesn't know of a single
>engineer who doesn't use AutoCAD..
>
>he says the only reason there will soon
>be 400,000 seats of revit is because
>autodesk pushes that program on
>everyone and his copy of revit has
>just been sitting on the shelf like
>everyone else's..

[Anonymous]

Matt-


but here's the thing Matt- BIM and revit is very
serious business- and i need to seriously understand
everything there is to understand about both of them..
you know what i mean?

[Anonymous]

I agree with Matt, and am seeing the same thing.

I am seeing the MEP consultants being pushed to utilize Revit MEP on
projects. Some clients are requiring BIM software be used on their project,
so all team members are needing to use it and that is typically Revit. I
recently met with an electronics controls supplier/contractor that is using
Revit on a BIM required project.

Doug
www.dougbowersconsulting.com
blog: http://aectechtalk.wordpress.com



"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:6309553@discussion.autodesk.com...
I would say that your architect relative is wrong. I guess for some people
the
"foreseeable future" is a much shorter timeframe than others.

If anything, we're seeing Revit and BIM adoption speeding up at an increased
pace across the board. There might be a few things which are behind the
curve
(e.g., Revit MEP) for now but the maturity rate is increasing.

Matt
matt@stachoni.com

On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:32:01 -0800, Vector2 <> wrote:

>an architect in my family with
>15 years in the business and usually
>employing 4 to 6 CAD drafters told
>me after christmas dinner that
>the foreseeable future for revit
>will only be for large complex
>projects like hospitals and 100
>story buildings- and that AutoCAD
>will be used for everything else..
>
>his favorite program is ADT 2004-
>and says he doesn't know of a single
>engineer who doesn't use AutoCAD..
>
>he says the only reason there will soon
>be 400,000 seats of revit is because
>autodesk pushes that program on
>everyone and his copy of revit has
>just been sitting on the shelf like
>everyone else's..

[Anonymous]

well- i'm just learning- but i think BIM
and revit are the same thing..

everything else is just how you do
business with revit.. and all that is
still full of holes..

the revolution in architecture IS revit..

archicad evolved from a drawing program
into the first virtual construction program-
similar to what microstation did later- but
like the very first horseless carriage that
wasn't quite an automobile- those programs
are not the real thing..

it usually happens that the very first invention
of something is never quite right and someone
else comes along and invents it properly and
that one makes history..

revit really has no competition.. shhh- don't
say that too loud around autodesk- lol..

[Anonymous]

BIM is a process and Revit is a tool that can be used in that process. Yes
it is an important tool of that process but there are and will be many other
programs that when used along with Revit and some other platforms that
really makes BIM possible. Other examples include costing software packages,
facility management packages, scheduling and project phasing programs to
name a few.

"Vector2" wrote in message news:6309573@discussion.autodesk.com...
> well- i'm just learning- but i think BIM
> and revit are the same thing..
>
> everything else is just how you do
> business with revit.. and all that is
> still full of holes..
>
> the revolution in architecture IS revit..
>
> archicad evolved from a drawing program
> into the first virtual construction program-
> similar to what microstation did later- but
> like the very first horseless carriage that
> wasn't quite an automobile- those programs
> are not the real thing..
>
> it usually happens that the very first invention
> of something is never quite right and someone
> else comes along and invents it properly and
> that one makes history..
>
> revit really has no competition.. shhh- don't
> say that too loud around autodesk- lol..

[Anonymous]

cdv-

thanks- i like that kind of input..

i think everyone would LIKE BIM to be a process-
and separate it from revit- but i don't think there has
been a process found yet.. certainly not one that
revit can be subordinated to.. anyway- BIM means
the exact same thing as VDC (virtual design and
construction).. VDC is what revit is.. archicad
was the first to have an idea like that- but revit
is the first to implement that idea in a practical
way.. i guess not many like to think of autodesk
as being "king of the hill" but they really are..

as for "other platforms"- revit LOVES to
work with other platforms.. but all data must
end in revit.. like "all roads lead to rome".. and
all the BIM process roads (once they are found)
will probably lead to revit as well..

most firms are still trying to figure out why they
are using revit- apart from using it to convey
design intent and the excitement of it being
the future in architecture- much less knowing
how to build a way of doing business around
revit- (BIM process)..

but don't overreact cdv- we're just kicking
around some ideas here.. and the whole
thing is only being tested in a time when
construction is at a near standstill anyway..
so nobody has the right answers yet..

[Anonymous]

On the other hand, I'm also seeing where Autodesk's BIM implementation strategy
has a long way to go.

I recently attended a meeting with a local HVAC design/build contractor who has
been on the "BIM" bandwagon for years - using plain ol' AutoCAD along with
CAD-Duct. It's basically MEP on steroids - they're able to design the HVAC
systems in 3D and pump that data directly out to their CNC fabrication process.

Now they are on a high-end Revit project (the use of which was driven by the
contractor, interestingly enough) and found out that they could not effectively
use Revit MEP for the same purpose, because there's no way - yet - to get the
model data out to fabrication.

The other problem is that, compared to something like CAD-Duct, MEP is somewhat
primitive in comparison. At the moment, the product is a ccouple of years behind
Revit Architetcure and Structure, and most people I know think it's behind the
curve compared to AutoCAD MEP as well.

Compounding this, there is probably no effective translation mechanism that
would allow them to design in MEP and export out to a format that CAD-Duct could
use.

So, in this particular project, the ultimate BIM solution is going to be
somewhat fractured, because the platforms simply do not talk to each other.
These guys cannot afford to abandon their time-tested BIM platform for Revit
because the Revit side simply isn't there yet.

Wil this change? You betcha. When? Who knows?

Matt
matt@stachoni.com


On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:21:29 -0800, Doug Bowers
dougbowersconsulting thedotcom> wrote:

>I agree with Matt, and am seeing the same thing.
>
>I am seeing the MEP consultants being pushed to utilize Revit MEP on
>projects. Some clients are requiring BIM software be used on their project,
>so all team members are needing to use it and that is typically Revit. I
>recently met with an electronics controls supplier/contractor that is using
>Revit on a BIM required project.
>
>Doug
>www.dougbowersconsulting.com
>blog: http://aectechtalk.wordpress.com
>
>
>
>"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
>news:6309553@discussion.autodesk.com...
>I would say that your architect relative is wrong. I guess for some people
>the
>"foreseeable future" is a much shorter timeframe than others.
>
>If anything, we're seeing Revit and BIM adoption speeding up at an increased
>pace across the board. There might be a few things which are behind the
>curve
>(e.g., Revit MEP) for now but the maturity rate is increasing.
>
>Matt
>matt@stachoni.com
>
>On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:32:01 -0800, Vector2 <> wrote:
>
>>an architect in my family with
>>15 years in the business and usually
>>employing 4 to 6 CAD drafters told
>>me after christmas dinner that
>>the foreseeable future for revit
>>will only be for large complex
>>projects like hospitals and 100
>>story buildings- and that AutoCAD
>>will be used for everything else..
>>
>>his favorite program is ADT 2004-
>>and says he doesn't know of a single
>>engineer who doesn't use AutoCAD..
>>
>>he says the only reason there will soon
>>be 400,000 seats of revit is because
>>autodesk pushes that program on
>>everyone and his copy of revit has
>>just been sitting on the shelf like
>>everyone else's..

[Anonymous]

Nice broad brushstroke you're painting with there.

- the OF

wrote in message news:6309566@discussion.autodesk.com...
Matt-

i agree with you- but the guy is from oklahoma-
and you can "tell an okie- but you
can't tell'm anything"..

but here's the thing Matt- BIM and revit is very
serious business- and i need to seriously understand
everything there is to understand about both of them..
you know what i mean?

[Anonymous]

"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:6309656@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Wil this change? You betcha. When? Who knows?

well, maybe now that they’ve implemented the Ribbon,
they can once again begin to focus upon making true feature development
strides...

as long as nobody decides that they like tinsel better than plain 'ol
ribbon,
anytime soon...

Ho, ho, ho....

[Anonymous]

Attached are a couple of slides from presentation that I attended back in
the fall.

"Vector2" wrote in message news:6309634@discussion.autodesk.com...
> cdv-
>
> thanks- i like that kind of input..
>
> i think everyone would LIKE BIM to be a process-
> and separate it from revit- but i don't think there has
> been a process found yet.. certainly not one that
> revit can be subordinated to.. anyway- BIM means
> the exact same thing as VDC (virtual design and
> construction).. VDC is what revit is.. archicad
> was the first to have an idea like that- but revit
> is the first to implement that idea in a practical
> way.. i guess not many like to think of autodesk
> as being "king of the hill" but they really are..
>
> as for "other platforms"- revit LOVES to
> work with other platforms.. but all data must
> end in revit.. like "all roads lead to rome".. and
> all the BIM process roads (once they are found)
> will probably lead to revit as well..
>
> most firms are still trying to figure out why they
> are using revit- apart from using it to convey
> design intent and the excitement of it being
> the future in architecture- much less knowing
> how to build a way of doing business around
> revit- (BIM process)..
>
> but don't overreact cdv- we're just kicking
> around some ideas here.. and the whole
> thing is only being tested in a time when
> construction is at a near standstill anyway..
> so nobody has the right answers yet..

[Anonymous]

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 08:23:48 -0800, caLayton wrote:

>well, maybe now that they’ve implemented the Ribbon,
>they can once again begin to focus upon making true feature development
>strides...

Absholutely! *hic*

I'm SOOO glad they got the Ribbon done first, because WITHOUT THAT
MISSION-CRITICAL PIECE OF CODE DONE AND PERFECTED, gosh! Just what _else_ could
they have done to improve the program?



Matt
matt@stachoni.com