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Exterior Walls, Multi level Building - Best Practise

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Message 1 of 11
damo3
3691 Views, 10 Replies

Exterior Walls, Multi level Building - Best Practise

New user to Revit, CAD manager looking for the general idea of best practises for creating walls seperated by levels.

 

Using a 2 storey block veneer building as an example, the stud on the second level would sit on the first floor concrete slab. Therefore so far i have 2 seperate wall entities, ground floor to the underside of the concrete slab and seperate wall on the first floor slab.

 

I just have to deal with the 150mm gap on the exterior face of the wall where my slab is sitting, not sure how to do that yet.

I have read the links below and to be honest was a little surprised that using seperate walls (exterior/interior) may be a solution, so the exterior skin can be pulled full height. any other comments would be hugely appreciated on best way to deal with this. not sure if Revit 2012 has anything new to combat this...

 

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Revit-Architecture/Exterior-Wall-Best-Practices/m-p/3034954/h...

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=77120

 

Thanks very much in advance for any help or advise.

10 REPLIES 10
Message 2 of 11
LisaDrago
in reply to: damo3

Does this attached image show what youa re looking for?

If so - Revit does this automatically - when you place the floor boundary and finish you should get a question about that situation... i have attahced an image of that. if you say yes - it will do it for you.

 

Is this what you are looking for? or did I miss it?

LD


If this helped solve your issue - remember to 'accept as solution' to help other find answers!
You can't think AutoCAD and run Revit.
Email: LisaDragoEE@gmail.com
Message 3 of 11
damo3
in reply to: damo3

Yes that is what I am after. What version are you running? Is this the method I should be using? Or is recommended to use seperate wall entities for more control? I suppose it depends on the design etc etc...

 

Thanks for your help, not sure why i didnt see that message, perhaps i didnt extend it into the core as i thought...

Message 4 of 11
LisaDrago
in reply to: damo3

Currently I am using 2012 but I want to say that specific functionality has been available since I started using it on version 8 about 6 years now.

 

When you draw the boundary line for the floor slab - make sure it is in the center of the wall. If it is to the inside of the wall then there is nothing to cut out and you won't get the message (I believe).

 

You can certainly build the wall like they would in the real world and make it two separate walls. In the structure of the wall you can unlock the outside layers and then stretch those down to meet the wall below. 

 

Or you could make several wall types - have an exterior shell and make the interior layers a wall type and then join them (the exterior and interior) so when you place a window or door it will cut through both - or act like one solid wall.

 

There are lots of options - use what works best for your company.

 

LD

 

PS - don't forget to accept as solution if this helped - it will help others when they are looking through to quickly find things that worked.


If this helped solve your issue - remember to 'accept as solution' to help other find answers!
You can't think AutoCAD and run Revit.
Email: LisaDragoEE@gmail.com
Message 5 of 11
flipworx
in reply to: LisaDrago

(apologies for dragging up an old thread).... If you model using two separate wall layers as you say (an internal and external layer) then each layer would be a wall in its own right. Each would have a core boundary. How and at what stage do you "join" them so they act parametrically with doors and windows? Also, what technique are you using to join these separate wall layers? The "join" command?

 

I'd also like to know how this "join" method works with a cavity wall with a clear air space  

Message 6 of 11
ToanDN
in reply to: flipworx

Use Join Geometry tool to join parallel walls and fenestration will open through all of them.  The walls don't even need to touch.

Message 7 of 11
flipworx
in reply to: ToanDN

Thanks. You say the walls don't need to touch, when modelling the two halves of a cavity wall would you then model the clear cavity as a "thing" or leave it as a clear space? My walls tend to be blockwork-insul-cavity-brickwork. 

 

Is there a way to tell if a compound-looking wall is actually a genuine compound wall or two halves joined? Is there some type of visual indicator? 

Message 8 of 11
ToanDN
in reply to: flipworx


@flipworx wrote:

Thanks. You say the walls don't need to touch, when modelling the two halves of a cavity wall would you then model the clear cavity as a "thing" or leave it as a clear space? My walls tend to be blockwork-insul-cavity-brickwork. 

I've done it both ways.  If I need flexibility (e.g. various spacing distances) I use two walls, if I need consistency I use one compound wall.

 

Is there a way to tell if a compound-looking wall is actually a genuine compound wall or two halves joined? Is there some type of visual indicator? 

 

A genuine compound wall, even with an air space, is still a solid piece when you look at it in 3D, or the ends are capped if you look at it in plan.  Two joined walls, if they don't touch, you can clearly see the gap.


 

Message 9 of 11
damo3
in reply to: flipworx

no apology needed, infact, thank you... that original OP was me!!! (different profile back then) Wow, what a flashback!! 

 

In addition to @ToanDN comments, specifically, for your information, the walls need to be within 152mm of each other (face to face), or the "join" won't work if you want a window or door to cut through both. If they are further apart, you will get a warning "Highlighted elements are joined by do not intersect"

The other thing you will notice if they are separate walls is the cut lines pen weight. If it is a single compound wall, the "common edges" (the internal layers) are typically thin pen. 


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If you find posts have solved your problem, please don't forget to mark them as 'SOLVED' to help others with similar questions. - Thank you.
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Message 10 of 11
flipworx
in reply to: damo3

Back to the OP. Seven years on what is now deemed to be best practice; walls per level of walls full height? And coupled with that, walls as separate layers or a single compound wall? 

Message 11 of 11
damo3
in reply to: flipworx

@flipworx

My modelling choices vary project to project depending on the design. The best practice is to actually review your design before extensive modelling gets underway. I have seen many users just dive in, and then realise they should have gone in another direction and either tough it out or remodel aspects of the building fabric. Preparation is a valuable "best practice" when it comes to good modelling.  
Having good construction knowledge is  going to give you an advantage as well because you have a better understanding of how things go together, and therefore, a better idea of the type of control you may need of the wall skins and various components as you model.
The biggest problem I see is users trying to take shortcuts and model things as one item all the time, thinking it will be faster, then later not having the control they want. (ie: columns not being separated at levels, walls skins always being kept together, floor materials being painted on instead of creating separate floor finishes, etc)

Most of the time, I model the skins separately, gives me better join conditions and revisions are easier if we change or tweak the building fabric. Wall type management can also be easier. 


________________________________________________________________________________
If you find posts have solved your problem, please don't forget to mark them as 'SOLVED' to help others with similar questions. - Thank you.
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