A Revit Architect re-using Revit Structural objects: is this really possible

[helsinki_dave]

Hi, 


How do Revit architects re-use the structural engineers Revit model?

More specifically, do you re-use the .rvt objects that the engineer creates (linking etc), then use face-based architectural families to apply surfaces to structural floors, wall and columns - or not?
I'm an ACAD veteran, so the thought of re-modelling what the engineer has already modeled is not so appealing!

I suspect the problem is in the layers in compound objects. Simply put, the engineers wall is 'inside' my wall, but Revit doesn't really recognize this parametrically through the linking process (unless I use face-based families right?)

Thanks in advance!
Dave

[LisaDrago]

Hi Dave - I may be understanding you correctly but - Typically when working with other disciplines, I would link in their model into mine.

I would copy/monitor the important things like levels and grids and other things I needed to watch - things that if they changed I needed to know because it would affect my model. (a little about copy/monitor - copy will do just that - copy it from the other model into mine, it will also monitor the elements so that if the element changes in the other model - I will be notified, the monitor tool will just monitor the element in reference to an element in my model.)

After that I would would continue as I normally would. If I was responsible for a wall - I would put the wall in. Now if there was a structural wall already in and I just needed to fur it out - I would create the wall with what I needed and place it next to the existing structural wall.

Does this help?

LD

[helsinki_dave]

Hi Lisa, thanks so much for taking the time to reply! 

Taking the sample model that ships with Revit 2013 / 2014 (rac_advanced_sample_project), maybe 70% of the revit objects in that file have an architectural finish to them (substrate, finish etc). 

So if the architect sends to the engineer this Revit file , how does the engineer then use these compound family objects so that only the concrete is being isolated for engineering documentation purposes - and once the analysis has been done, and the Revit structural file updated, and sent back the architect, how does the architect take the pure concrete / steel objects in that file and update the compound objects in Revit architecture.

Phew. 

I'm quite less worried about grids and levels changing as those kind of changes are major design team meeting agenda points anyway.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

[David_W_Koch]

My 2 cents, coming from a commercial/institutional practice point of view, with multiple disciplines in-house (but also having worked with outside consultants, also):  I would expect the structural model to include all of the structural elements - slabs, beams, girders, columns, shear walls, etc., and that the architectural model would include these by linking the structural model, and then add additional items to represent non-structural construction and finishes as needed.  If the structural engineer is not modeling in a very early phase, the architectural model might include "placeholder" objects for structural elements, but these would be deleted once the structural model is in place.

Depending on the BIM goals for the project and the documentation needs, we may or may not add architectural finish floors on top of the linked concrete floor in the structural model.

[cvandevere]

I agree with both Lisa and David's comments and work flow. if you are the structural engineer then I suggest the you link the the Architectural model to your model and create all of your structural elements using the architectural model as a reference. Once the structural model is created then I link it to my my architectural model confirm variuos components slabs, columns and grids are located as expected. If I have any structural items in the architectural model and they are in the structural model such as columns and slabs then I either turn them off or delete them form the architectural model. As others have alresdy stated we can then add walls and finishes on top of  the structural elements in order to complete the design/model as may be required.

[helsinki_dave]

Hi David, 

Thanks also others for your responses. This is really really appreciated as I suspect there is alot of high level talk about reuse of data but I'm struggliing a little to peer up with those who are actually achieving this efficiently 🙂

Great point David - the ultimate goal of the model - can we assume that we are being paid to deliver co-ordinated quality 1:50 detail drawings? The purpose then being that the model is useful for quantity take off (one slab could be dressed in mulitple finishes) as well as for construction managment (Vico, Navisworks etc). 

Do we run into too many issues at 1:50 to reuse the structural engineers Revit model?

In my head are particularly cores - lift and stair cores - with quite alot of in-situ concrete which needs to be articulated behind quality lobby finishes and WC fitouts.

Thanks again in advance for any thoughts on this!