Project Falcon

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Valued Contributor
mark.young
Posts: 105
Registered: ‎11-27-2007
Message 41 of 50 (296 Views)

Re: This Must Be The Place (Native Melody)

12-12-2012 02:38 AM in reply to: hartogj

Hi, I've used Falcon for quite a while and it;s very cool to see it working within Inventor now!

 

It works very nicely, the interface is clear. Just a few issued for me:

The frame rate seems considerably slower than the standalone, making it hard to understand the flow patterns.

 

The ground plane seems to always introduce a gap under my model.

 

The major problem is the flow direction. It seems to default to the +X direction. We generally design our models with the XY plane facing forward, so I need flow along the -Z. I can't see a way to change this. If I have to create another assembly with the product repositioned then I might as well use the standalone.

 

Great add-in to have

 

Contributor
matso
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2012
Message 42 of 50 (293 Views)

Re: This Must Be The Place (Native Melody)

12-12-2012 03:23 AM in reply to: mark.young

You flip the model before you stuff it into Falcon. It was a real hasle in the beginning.  Or (this i don`t know) you draw on a different plane in inventor. (for the add on)

 

About the ground plane i have noted that its some issues related to it. Note the pressure difference close to the "walls"

 

http://s1188.beta.photobucket.com/user/MatsNorway/media/Finemesh.jpg.html?sort=3&o=24#/user/MatsNorw...

 

I believe there is also a speed difference. Thats not good for underbody airflow on cars. A checkbox for frictionless/"moving groundplane( as in same speed as the air) groundplane would be cool. Why so you say? because with it you can look at how the underside of a car works with the air.

 

Just thinking loud.

 

 

 

Valued Contributor
mark.young
Posts: 105
Registered: ‎11-27-2007
Message 43 of 50 (287 Views)

Re: This Must Be The Place (Native Melody)

12-12-2012 08:40 AM in reply to: matso

I did that too Matso for the standalone - I would put my assembly into a new assembly and adjust the orientation, then save out as STL.

Looks like I have to do it in Inventor too - no way am I re-constraining this whole assembly!

 

I like your moving floor idea.

 

I will try adjusting the flow boundaries to see if I can get rid of the gap under my model.

Employee
hartogj
Posts: 180
Registered: ‎08-03-2011
Message 44 of 50 (285 Views)

Re: This Must Be The Place (Native Melody)

12-12-2012 09:40 AM in reply to: mark.young

Model orientation can be adjusted in Falcon standalone by picking "Analysis" then "Orientation." It will flip the model to align with the coordinate axis of the source model along X,Y, or Z.

 

In Falcon for Inventor (aside from the flow direction control) we would need to rely on the model orientation options within Inventor itself. Sometimes it is easiest to make a higher level assembly since it provides a lot of flexibility.

 

@ matso - The bounding box can be re-sized if needed but today there aren't options available for the wall condition. It's good to know there is interest. In the meantime, if you need that, know that in-plane velocity and slip conditions are available in Simulation 360.

Contributor
Henrik14
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎03-29-2012
Message 45 of 50 (278 Views)

FALCON 2013

12-13-2012 02:38 AM in reply to: scott.sheppard

Hello there!

I changed graphic card for one that do not have shared RAM, and now it works for me!

So biggest hurdle aside, I started testing my turbines. Unfortunately I must say that I noticed right away that "Shaded" wieww and "Flow Lines" exclude each other, which is not improvement, IMHO. Next putting together speed and pressure and coloring high speed and high pressure with same color is counteproductive as like this we cannot know which is which. I would suggest for pressure putting mesh of appropriate size, denser as pressure rises. Something similar was used in previous version (but not for this purpose). I am getting fast moving dark blue arrows, where their color suggest air standing still, so it is not revealing true speed of air (happen mostly when air flows in opposite direction to main flow direction, or at 90 degrees to main flow and much faster than main flow speed).  New options cannot distinctly show the flow, and even flow lines are IMHO now worse than in previous version. Maybe I would learn to see what is there to see. It was very hard to find how to enlarge Wind Tunnel dimensions while it was easy in previous version. Next, I suggested 3D arrows that could depict volume of air moving in certain direction by size, which could subsume several smaller arrrows or be divided into severall smaller arrows as flow diverge or converge. So arrow heads and tails could show direction  size would show the volume and color the speed, exactly, not relative to main flow. If You would be interested in hiring me to be part of development team, I would explain You how to speed up processing at least 1000 times  and be getting results as close to reality as possible, do all analyse in paralel with capturing synergic effects as well. One thing is sorely missing, and that is saving  all parameters for particular simulation and restarting it as necesary. Next, .MOV file I cannot find and it is not clear what it shoud contain, animation till moment of saving the file or animation from moment file is named. IMHO, explicite start and stop recording is preferable, and ability to "freeze" simulation  in case one want to observe some detail and make recording, perhaps also ability to step back to return some thing that so fleetingly pass on the screen. Ability to move or turn movable objects like car wheels, that surely behave differently when standing still in the air flow or when rotating. Default values and ability to define them precisely in numeric form (as option for those who are not satisfied by approximate values as set with dials) would be required. Some things like Vectors or Grid seem pretty useless to me as they are, specially when they do not show what I expect them to show.

Next, It seems to me that some flow is depicted in wrong postiion as like with offset to place where it ought to be shown, which is simply incorrectly showing what is going on. I could show Yolu examples or You can run my .stl file and see for yourself. Unfortunately here I cannot add/attach such file, but I shall try......

Regards from Croatia, the homeland of Engineer Nikola Tesla!

Marijan Pollak

Contributor
Henrik14
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎03-29-2012
Message 46 of 50 (267 Views)

Re: FALCON 2013

12-15-2012 12:08 PM in reply to: Henrik14

TurbinaOBJET02d.jpgTurbinaOBJET01.jpgTurbinaOBJET01contrasted.jpg

Contributor
Henrik14
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎03-29-2012
Message 47 of 50 (264 Views)

Re: FALCON 2013

12-15-2012 01:34 PM in reply to: Henrik14

AsYou can see, I can either post  text or pictures and late on CHROME only, 

So first I would suggest that data about simulation would be displayed in complementary colour as in some moments they are invisible. Name of file in use would also be handy.

insimulationogmy turbine are many interesting things to be seen, unfortuately I did not have find how to save ,mov file.

Snapshot of first picture show many lines painted blue flowing counter to main flow  under turbine and then making 180 degrees turn and getting speed  go fast downwind.

There is kind of shade of Turbine also  

Next, some inexplicale phenomena is also visible where air spirals away from turbine.

What I miss from previous verrsion is ability to change size of Wind tunnel as I worked with +-200m values or 400m diameter Wind tunnel. I noticed even on example of sportcar that there apears areas of speeded up air above the car, while IMHO such areas could appear only over front of car and windshield, and specially not far behind the car, high over it and sharply isolated from air of much smaller speed like islands of fast air, which cannot exist really.

 I forgot to mention last time that colouring red fastest air and greatest pressure is IMHO incorect as lower pressure result from faster air flow, and anyway we have no way to decode which color represent speed and which pressure if they are shown toigether.

I also noticed no chage in display when I change resolution but car example is breaking after setting resolution near 200.

Regards, Marijan Pollak.

Contributor
matso
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-05-2012
Message 48 of 50 (240 Views)

Re: FALCON 2013

01-04-2013 03:13 AM in reply to: Henrik14

Here is a video of something i find annoying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WPtyF4-0hI

 

The CPU usage is also very bad. it uses mostly just one as its main worker and the rest is either idling or working at half.

 

It seems that those considered to be doing the dual threading/the dual threading is not utilised. Or something like that. In other words: it seems Falcon is not using the CPU full potential.

 

I would also enjoy a possibility to click on the number rather than to allways have to pull on the circular thingy.

New Member
steeldetailer77
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎01-24-2013
Message 49 of 50 (208 Views)

Very nice...

01-24-2013 04:15 PM in reply to: scott.sheppard

Due to a very small IT-budget, I used CAElinux (with OpenFOAM included) so far for some rather smaller CFD-simulations. Now I downloaded and tested Project Falcon with a STL-file done with a non-Autodesk-CAD-Application after hearing about Falcon from a friend via FB - and what should I say? WOW!

 

On a 32bit-old-fashioned XP in a VM it is rather unstable and does not support 3D. But I had the chance to test a structure for which I had calculated wind pressure distribution before according to EN 1991 (Eurocode1) and the results in Falcon are 90% close to the distribution I have calculated. And I think that is really good.

 

It's not that precise and powerful like a full-scale-supadupa-Multiphysics-package, but much faster and works really nice to optimize crosssections and structures, especially in bridge engineering before doing a more intricate planning.

 

What I have missed so far on the standalone-version (which i tested):

- There is no support for a 3D-mouse like SpaceNavigator

- The field corners are sometimes hard to pick

- Velocity and other variables should be entered "by hand" with a keyboard and not only with a wheelturn.

 

Some suggestions for future development:

- The medium should be changeable (compressible/incompressible), if gas or fluid flow simulation is needed.

- If possible, a simplyfied multiphase flow for fog, rain or snow would be really nice. One of the more intricate problems in structural engineering is to determine the distribution of snow and ice loads accord. to EN 1991-1-3 (resp. ASCE 7) and the change of wind loads due to covers of ice. And not only for structural engineering but also in aerospace engineering.

- A proper output as a PDF would be great.

- I never tried Autodesk Robot, but an interchange between the both - Falcon and Robot would be great. Or with any other AEC/CAE-application (like ???), so the wind loads from Falcon could be used in the project without re-entering.

 

One big wish I have for ALL Autodesk software:

Since Windows 8  is a major failure and won't ever be popular, no matter what MS will do - please port your software to Linux. Windows will surely not die the next years, but it is wise to plan for the future without Windows. I love using Fedora and also Ubuntu - but there is unfortunately nothing from Autodesk for either of them.

 

Last words:

Thank you so much, Autodesk Labs - for the exceptional work, a great piece of software and something I am really looking forward to buy some close day if you offer it as a fully-operational application (for Linux). Keep up the great work!

 

Board Manager
scott.sheppard
Posts: 1,103
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 50 of 50 (178 Views)

Re: Very nice...

02-21-2013 06:26 PM in reply to: steeldetailer77

Thank you for your thorough review,



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.

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