Overdue Improvements to Inventor Sheet Metal:

[MDLtd]

Hi Guys,

Please find listed below my ideas (and some from Brian Cranston - thanks Brian) re possible improvements to Inventor Sheet Metal. Please feel free to add any that we have not already thought of:

1) Fully controllable gussets, including draft, etc. User drawn profiles allowing the construction of a gusset across two bends or across a non-linear bend)

.
2) Easy way to make press tools and add them to a library.

3) Zero gap hems.

4) Dimple tool.

5) Bead tool.

6) Louvre tool.

7) Obround punch tool should be unlimited in sizing (currently limited to 4 pre-set imperial choices only).

😎 Better corner treatments.

9) Drawn cut-outs used to form open depressions with folded down/up edges (see image 1).

10) Conversion from outsourced CAD files straight into sheet metal with feature recognition.

11) Sheet metal create “Face” to show editable "sheet metal defaults" in the pop up menu.

12) Corner seam Face/Edge distance to accept “0” gap.

13) Punch tools need to have a preview of effect to changes of size geometry prior to application.

14) Joggle tool.

15) When using the flange tool to create adjacent return flanges the software automatically mitres the overlapping corners. This is also a requirement for some contoured flanges, but there is no facility to do this. Neither is there a facility for selecting multiple edges (chaining) when creating a contour flange (this is where automated mitres would also come in to play).

16) Emboss tool to displace metal if required (see image 2).

17) Allow punching across bends, the addition of beads and other punch tool features directly on the flat pattern.

18) Flat pattern suppression (for parts with high bend counts, without destroying drawing link).

19) All modification of bend allowance as part of the bend data. Sometimes bends stretch in a fashion that Inventor won’t predict. I’d like a box to add/subtract a value from the bend allowance.

20) Piercing & stretching tool (e.g. countersunk holes). This feature might be treated separately or grouped within item 9. It could also be used to create extruded threaded holes, another highly desirable addition (see image 3).

21) Content Centre to have full catalogues of sheet metal fasteners from “PEM,” “DZUS” and “TR” – and yes, I know that both PEM and TR have some identical parts.

Please Note: The ideas for items 18 and 19 should be credited to Mr. Brian Cranston.

Regards all,

Dave

MDLtd

www.mdltd.org

[jletcher]

 A lot of what you listed can be done already.

1) Fully controllable gussets, including draft, etc. User drawn profiles allowing the construction of a gusset across two bends or across a non-linear bend)

 This one I don't understand. Is the gusset a separate part or a bend in the sheet metal part?

2) Easy way to make press tools and add them to a library.

This will come with time as you get more experience in Inventor to me it is easy so more info on why you feel it is hard would be nice.

3) Zero gap hems.

Have no problem with this. I make mine with .001 or .005 depends because really there is no zero gap in real life.

4) Dimple tool.

 I understand how you would think this would be in Inventor but really they would have to know all Dimples in the world and that I don't see happening. The make it so you can make your own. That is the best way for them.

5) Bead tool.

This would be like the Dimple tool. No way for them to make all that are out there. I have one as a feature I made but there is one on cbliss.

6) Louvre tool.

 Again same as the Dimple tool. There are hundreds of louvers out there no way for them to know them all. I also have one as a feature I made you can also find one on cbliss.

7) Obround punch tool should be unlimited in sizing (currently limited to 4 pre-set imperial choices only).

This one is kind of up in the air the idea of the Obround punch tool is for you to set it up on the tooling you have this way you would not have to look at a list to see if the shop has it. But with lasers, plasma cutters I can see this upsetting those that did not know why it is the way it is. You can make your own and that is what most do because it is real easy to make. It was more of an example of what could be done.

😎 Better corner treatments.

Have a better explanation of this, better corner treatments just don't give enough information..

9) Drawn cut-outs used to form open depressions with folded down/up edges (see image 1).

Would this not fall under punch dimple tool?

10) Conversion from outsourced CAD files straight into sheet metal with feature recognition

 As nice as this would be not sure if it can happen for a few reasons. One if your sheet metal standards don't have the information needed too convert, and we know all the companies that make software for sheet metal would never give a translator to it's competitor they rather you buy a seat of their software..

11) Sheet metal create “Face” to show editable "sheet metal defaults" in the pop up menu

 Not following you on this one can you provide more information?

12) Corner seam Face/Edge distance to accept “0” gap.

 As long as I have been in sheet metal even when I ran the Amada brake I would never want this there should always be a gap. As a Press brake operator in my early years I would get mad at the engineer that does that. Reason to get a 90 in a bend it overbends in the machine a few degrees, this is for a spring back (unless coining uncommon). If you put it at 0 there would be no room for the spring back and it can make the corner look real bad after bending. Also harder to keep a tolerance.

13) Punch tools need to have a preview of effect to changes of size geometry prior to application.

 I can see this being needed..

14) Joggle tool.

Not sure if this is needed you can do this with the tools we have so kind of torn on this one.

15) When using the flange tool to create adjacent return flanges the software automatically mitres the overlapping corners. This is also a requirement for some contoured flanges, but there is no facility to do this. Neither is there a facility for selecting multiple edges (chaining) when creating a contour flange (this is where automated mitres would also come in to play).

Do you have a pic or sample of this?

16) Emboss tool to displace metal if required (see image 2).

 Would be nice just not sure if it is practical for many reason I will not list but would be nice to have.

17) Allow punching across bends, the addition of beads and other punch tool features directly on the flat pattern.

 Would be nice for stiffener dimples in bend seeing even a feature will not work or I can not get mine to work and unfold.

18) Flat pattern suppression (for parts with high bend counts, without destroying drawing link).

 Are you having issues? Or why would you need this?

19) All modification of bend allowance as part of the bend data. Sometimes bends stretch in a fashion that Inventor won’t predict. I’d like a box to add/subtract a value from the bend allowance.

I would like to see where I can click on the bend and update that information Inventor has an issue with 1/8 radius and a 1/2 radius in same sheet metal and have the right length I have been upset at this from Inventor 1..

20) Piercing & stretching tool (e.g. countersunk holes). This feature might be treated separately or grouped within item 9. It could also be used to create extruded threaded holes, another highly desirable addition (see image 3).

This falls under Dimple tool... I have made this as well I believe there is one on cbliss.

21) Content Centre to have full catalogues of sheet metal fasteners from “PEM,” “DZUS” and “TR” – and yes, I know that both PEM and TR have some identical parts.

 I don't use content Center parts but I believe there are pems already, DZUS would have been nice but now I have already built my library.

 I found to many issues with content Center parts so I stay far away from them..

[schnautza]

Sometimes I like to form a pan by making flanges on all 4 sides of a face. It would be great to have the weld environment integrated into sheet metal to allow you to seal the gap between adjacent flanges without creating a weldment assembly.

[MDLtd]

Hello, and thank you for your comments. Please find my response in brown and
red.

1) Fully controllable gussets, including draft, etc. User drawn profiles
allowing the construction of a gusset across two bends or across a
non-linear bend)

This one I don't understand. Is the gusset a separate part or a bend in the
sheet metal part?

Answer: This is what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjeFjIjGDkA

2) Easy way to make press tools and add them to a library.

This will come with time as you get more experience in Inventor to me it is
easy so more info on why you feel it is hard would be nice.

Answer: Thank you for your comments re my experience - or lack of it J.
Whilst I found it slightly amusing it was a little condescending. I have
been using Inventor since 2008, and prior to that SDRC's Ideas for 20+
years. I have been working in the sheet metal industry for 40 years. I have
also used SolidEdge, SolidWorks, NX and SpaceClaim. FYI- I have been Beta
testing Inventor for Autodesk since 2012. And no, please don't blame me for
all of its problems and quirks J. I am trying to get those fixed.

3) Zero gap hems.

I have no problem with this. I make mine with .001 or .005 depends because
really there is no zero gap in real life.

Answer: Sorry, I can't accept your comment. Yes, I currently do exactly as
you do to achieve as close to "0" gap as possible, but unlike the
non-existent "0" bend radius I firmly believe that it is achievable in a
hem.

4) Dimple tool.

I understand how you would think this would be in Inventor but really they
would have to know all Dimples in the world and that I don't see happening.
The make it so you can make your own. That is the best way for them.

Answer: I believe you are thinking in too rigid a fashion. You seem to be
coming from the situation of having to use fixed size in house tooling,
whilst I am not. I want flexibility to either use tooling from diverse sheet
metal sources, or design my own to suit a specific need.

5) Bead tool.

This would be like the Dimple tool. No way for them to make all that are out
there. I have one as a feature I made but there is one on cbliss.

Answer: Again you are too rigid in your thoughts. Please review these two
video of how a bead tool should work:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_beowqoc44


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN5tveuNBUI

6) Louvre tool.

Again same as the Dimple tool. There are hundreds of louvers out there no
way for them to know them all. I also have one as a feature I made you can
also find one on cbliss.

Answer: Please review this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ524CVurxk

7) Obround punch tool should be unlimited in sizing (currently limited to 4
pre-set imperial choices only).

This one is kind of up in the air the idea of the Obround punch tool is for
you to set it up on the tooling you have this way you would not have to look
at a list to see if the shop has it. But with lasers, plasma cutters I can
see this upsetting those that did not know why it is the way it is. You can
make your own and that is what most do because it is real easy to make. It
was more of an example of what could be done.

Answer: Yet again, you are coming from a different angle. I well understand
your need to match in house tooling, but as I said previously that is not
the case for all of us. I use many difference sources for my sheet metal
designs and I want an obround tool that I can set to the size of my choice.
This would only require the parameters modifying to make them adjustable.

😎 Better corner treatments.

Have a better explanation of this, better corner treatments just don't give
enough information.

Answer: I used Inventor 2013 prior to upgrading to 2015, I skipped 2014 so I
don't know exactly when this problem was cured. The attached image is taken
from 2013 and shows a supposedly circular corner cut-out, which is not
circular - see image below of flat pattern:

I have just discovered that this has been fixed in 2015, although I have not
seen it mentioned anywhere in print.

Apart from that one addition I would like to see is that of an obround
corner cut-out option. Currently that is not in the menu list.



9) Drawn cut-outs used to form open depressions with folded down/up edges
(see image 1).

Would this not fall under punch dimple tool?

Answer: A typical method of making a drawn cut-out, using Catia in this
instance. Many other CAD packages do exactly the same thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFZt4KdnKcY

10) Conversion from outsourced CAD files straight into sheet metal with
feature recognition

As nice as this would be not sure if it can happen for a few reasons. One
if your sheet metal standards don't have the information needed to convert,
and we know all the companies that make software for sheet metal would never
give a translator to its competitor they rather you buy a seat of their
software.

Answer: Providing a received model has consistent wall thickness it should
be possible to import it into the Inventor and have it automatically
converted from a model to sheet metal, the software recognising bend
allowances and features. Utopian it might be, be possible - I definitely
think so!

11) Sheet metal create "Face" to show editable "sheet metal defaults" in
the pop up menu

Not following you on this one can you provide more information?

Answer: See image below of the two separated functionalities. Whilst I know
that you can pre-set sheet metal defaults prior to using the face tool I see
no reason why another button could not be added to the face command box. It
all depends how you prefer to work. Whilst I have the "face" command upon I
might as well set the defaults!





12) Corner seam Face/Edge distance to accept "0" gap.

As long as I have been in sheet metal even when I ran the Amada brake I
would never want this there should always be a gap. As a Press brake
operator in my early years I would get mad at the engineer that does that.
Reason to get a 90 in a bend it over bends in the machine a few degrees,
this is for a spring back (unless coining uncommon). If you put it at 0
there would be no room for the spring back and it can make the corner look
real bad after bending. Also harder to keep a tolerance.

Answer: Yes, I don't dispute your logic and you are absolutely correct from
a practical point of view. I am also well aware of the need for over-bend,
but I would still like to properly represent a finished chassis that has
spot welded tabs and faces. To do that requires a 0 gap between them. When
the tab and flange are pulled together by the spot weld there is no gap
after all. If you don't want to set the gap to "0" that's fine, but I would
still like the option to do so.

Think of it like the "0" bend inner radius that the people who design mobile
phones and tablets are calling for. They use extremely thin materials that
are die stamped and believe they achieve 0 inner radii. It may not make
sense to you and me, but if it is what the customer wants they should not be
ignored.

13) Punch tools need to have a preview of effect to changes of size
geometry prior to application.

I can see this being needed.

Answer: At last we agree on something!

14) Joggle tool.

Not sure if this is needed you can do this with the tools we have so kind of
torn on this one.

Answer: Yes, you can do it with a contour flange, but as stated this has
problems with corners. I joggle folded box chassis quite often for a flush
lid, and a tool that would allow me to do this quick would make a lot of
difference to me. Here is an example video taken from SolidWorks 2913:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3jyVu_x1nc

15) When using the flange tool to create adjacent return flanges the
software automatically mitres the overlapping corners. This is also a
requirement for some contoured flanges, but there is no facility to do this.
Neither is there a facility for selecting multiple edges (chaining) when
creating a contour flange (this is where automated mitres would also come in
to play).

Do you have a pic or sample of this?

Answer: I do, the first image shows the normal result of chaining edges, the
corners mitre. The second image shows the effect of trying this with a
contour flange - no mitring. The software will not accept two conflicting
corner so it bends one outwards. Image three shows the effect of using the
"make corner" command in an attempt the software to work with a contour
flange. Inventor only accepts two edges for a mitre, it will not recognise
the contoured flange as a whole edge:



16) Emboss tool to displace metal if required (see image 2).

Would be nice just not sure if it is practical for many reason I will not
list but would be nice to have.

Answer: I don't see why not, the software only needs to offset the imprint
on the reverse face to the emboss by the thickness of the material and apply
fillets to the edges, the size of which should be at the discretion of the
user. Note, I never said that any of my suggestions would be painless.

17) Allow punching across bends, the addition of beads and other punch tool
features directly on the flat pattern.

Would be nice for stiffener dimples in bend seeing even a feature will not
work or I cannot get mine to work and unfold.

Answer: Well you can in 2015 - inventor has gained two commands
"Unfold/Refold" - these allow features to be added to a flattened sheet
metal part. However, I think that these two extra icons are unnecessary and
that it should be possible to modify the flat pattern.

18) Flat pattern suppression (for parts with high bend counts, without
destroying drawing link).

Are you having issues? Or why would you need this?

Answer: As I said in my post, this idea is Mr. Brian Cranston's and appeared
as a response to my original post (this is a copy) on the next Beta release
forum. I was obliged to add this to my list. I would not feel happy
responding to your query as I may not present his case properly. I think
Brian will have to respond personally.

19) All modification of bend allowance as part of the bend data. Sometimes
bends stretch in a fashion that Inventor won't predict. I'd like a box to
add/subtract a value from the bend allowance.

I would like to see where I can click on the bend and update that
information Inventor has an issue with 1/8 radius and a 1/2 radius in same
sheet metal and have the right length I have been upset at this from
Inventor

20) Piercing & stretching tool (e.g. countersunk holes). This feature might
be treated separately or grouped within item 9. It could also be used to
create extruded threaded holes, another highly desirable addition (see image
3).


This falls under Dimple tool... I have made this as well I believe there is
one on cbliss.

Answer: Whilst, like yourself, I can easily model these features, it is time
consuming and inefficient when it could, and should, be part of the
programming.

21) Content Centre to have full catalogues of sheet metal fasteners from
"PEM," "DZUS" and "TR" - and yes, I know that both PEM and TR have some
identical parts.

I don't use content Centre parts but I believe there are pems already,
DZUS would have been nice but now I have already built my library.

I found to many issues with content Center parts so I stay far away from
them.

Answer: Yes, you are quite correct, there are some PEM parts listed in
Content Centre, but not all. For those of us that use the Content Centre
regularly, having the full catalogues available from the most popular
fastener manufactures in the world would be a boon!

PEM, DZUS and TR already have 3D cad library parts in existence, so why not
expand the Content Centre so we don't have to go looking for data sheets and
then create our own parts? Just like nuts, bolts, washers etc., the Content
Centre is designed to save time.



Please forgive me if I have missed any of your points, it has taken me a
long time to collect together the answers to you queries. If there is
anything else please do not hesitate to contact me.



Regards,



Dave

MDLtd

www.mdltd.org

[MDLtd]

My applogies guys, this is the first time I have used this forum and I have made a few mistakes answering your queries and comments. Take the above post for instance - I thought I was answering a personal email and so I included images in that email, which unfortunately have not appeared above. I also want to temporarily withdraw one of my points regarding contour flanges until I have done some more experimentation in Inventor 2015 - the results I am getting are inconsistent and confusing.

These are the pictures that should have accompanied my text:

Item 1)

A standard gusset                                   Gusset across bends                                                                      Gusset across a non-linear bend

Item 😎

Item 11)

Item 15) Mitred corners and contoured flanges. Please ignore for the moment - more on this subject anon.

Once again, my apologies for having this post so disjointed. Now I know how things work I will not make the same mistakes again.

Regards,

Dave

[MDLtd]

Hi Guys,

I have been playing around with contoured mitred corners as promised and despite anything I said previously I can only point my finger at one problem now, and that is the "corner seam" tool. This does not work with the multiple edges of a contoured flange because it is only possible to select two edges at a time, see image below:

[MDLtd]

My revised list as of 01/07/2014:

1)  Fully controllable gussets, including draft, etc. User drawn profiles allowing the construction of a gusset across two bends or across a non-linear bend:

ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjeFjIjGDkA

Standard gusset                                   Gusset across two bends                                                                  Gusset on a non-linear curve

.
2) Easy way to make press tools and add them to a library.

3) Zero gap hems. Hems on curved edges (see PDF attached to item 22).

4) Dimple tool:

5) Bead tool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_beowqoc44


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN5tveuNBUI

6) Louvre tool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ524CVurxk

7) Obround punch tool should be unlimited in sizing (currently limited to 4 pre-set imperial choices only).

😎 Addition of an obround corner cut-out option. Currently not in the menu list.

9) Drawn cut-outs (or feature deformation) used to form open depressions with folded down/up edges:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFZt4KdnKcY

  

10) Conversion from outsourced CAD files straight into sheet metal with feature recognition.

Providing a received model has a consistent wall thickness it should be possible to import it into the Inventor and have it automatically converted from a dumb model (with no history tree) to sheet metal, the software recognising bend allowances and features.

11) Sheet metal create “Face” and “Contour Flange” to show editable "sheet metal defaults" in their respective pop-up menus:

12) Corner seam Face/Edge distance to accept “0” gap.

13) Punch tools need to have a preview of effect to changes of size geometry prior to application.

14) Joggle tool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3jyVu_x1nc

15) Modify “corner seam” tool to mitre contoured flanges:

16) Emboss tool to displace metal if required:

17) Allow punching across bends, the addition of beads and other punch tool features directly on the flat pattern. Currently this is possible using "Unfold/Refold" in 2015, but uses two extra icons when this operation and others should have been opperable on the flat pattern itself.

18) Flat pattern suppression (for parts with high bend counts, without destroying drawing link).

19) Allow modification of bend allowance as part of the bend data. Sometimes bends stretch in a fashion that Inventor won’t predict. I’d like a box to add/subtract a value from the bend allowance.

20) Piercing & stretching tool (e.g. countersunk holes). This feature might be treated separately or grouped within item 4 & 9. It could also be used to create extruded threaded holes, another highly desirable addition:

21) Content Centre to have full catalogues of sheet metal fasteners from “PEM,” “DZUS” and “TR” – and yes, I know that both PEM and TR have some identical parts.

22) Add curved (swept) flange feature. Please view this pdf – you will need to scroll down a little. This shows what I have in mind:

http://www-cad.fnal.gov/PLM_World/2006/academic_programs/Velocity/VEGE7-Kasprzak-V19NewSheetmetalFea...

[jpauls]

This is a great list of items that need to be added to Inventor Sheet Metal.  My company is a Custom tank manufacturer.  Inventor 2018 is the product that is used to create these models and drawings.  We have a need for creating a Flat Pattern of a Flange Head that is basically stamped.  I have atteched photos for clarity.   Here is a link to another request for this feature: How to flange a circular edge?

 

side view

[AlexZW28B]

Yup, was having issues with Inventor, and after seeing this list - not sure why people even consider Inventor anymore... These requests were from 6 years ago - SIX! and a lot of them still aren't there, I am using 2020... They take forever to implement features people are asking for, and other software is much more capable... I was just trying to make a flange with a modified length, and then a mitered corner of 2 flanges - not so easily done... Terrible.