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Work title if not an engineer?

34 REPLIES 34
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Message 1 of 35
stoob
2700 Views, 34 Replies

Work title if not an engineer?

I got a question for yous....

 

If I am not trained as an engineer but get a job in an engineering company using Inventor, modelling and making drawings - what work title do I give myself? Smiley Sad

 

Cheers

34 REPLIES 34
Message 21 of 35
msklein
in reply to: stoob

It used to be back in the stone ages that you first started off as a detailer Draftsman till you worked your way up to a designer after years of experience (say around ten, was the most accepted).

 

 But iv'e gotten old enough to have the attitude, I don't care what title they call me. I'm now more concerned about two things is it a direct position or contract (direct preferred) and show me the compensation (money, stock options....). Oh and job stability.

msk

Message 22 of 35
msklein
in reply to: sam_m

Sam,

Just so background info about justification of engineering title. A engineer is more than just an education, its a life that you come to at a very early age. Just like most Doctors, you can be trained, but you have to have the drive and desire. 

 

The Wright brothers, Henry Ford and so on, and around 40% of the engineers that put a man on the moon had no engineering degree. Dad told me that back when he was working on the lunar Lander. And yes he had a mechanical engineering degree. 

Message 23 of 35
stoob
in reply to: msklein

But isn't it also true that whatever you studied as an 'engineer', that because technology and construction changes all the time and new projects come up, what you studied as an engineer can get lost /go out of date anyway?

 

My aged engineer friend is involved in a new project creating wind turbines, something completely new to him and his colleagues, so he has to relearn. Also I'm sure that even a designer can learn engineering from a sideline point of view, when collaborating with engineers, a designer can learn on the job, thus going up on the evolutionary scale from CAD/mouse pushing monkey to monkey who knows his peanuts?

Message 24 of 35
Steve_Bahr
in reply to: Dennis_Jeffrey

However, a draftsperson IS NOT a designer!  While designer is a non-descript term, it implies a knowledge of design, manufacturing, marketing and purchasing.  Far more than a draftsman brings to the table [no offense to the OP].  Woe to those that call themselves a designer but can only tap a keyboard.

Steve Bahr...since 1962.
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Message 25 of 35
Dennis_Jeffrey
in reply to: sam_m

Sorry, wrong sam... I meant to reply to Sam Bixler. Anyway...

 

In the US , it's illegal to advertise your qualification as an engineer unless you have an equivalent diploma...

 

I agree with you.

Please mark this response as "Accept as Solution" if it answers your question.
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Dennis Jeffrey, Author and Manufacturing Trainer, Autodesk Inventor Certified Expert
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Message 26 of 35
Loren_J
in reply to: Dennis_Jeffrey


@Dennis_Jeffrey wrote:

 

In the US , it's illegal to advertise your qualification as an engineer unless you have an equivalent diploma...

 


 

Actually, you need a Professional Engineering license to advertise yourself as an engineer or do engineering work as a consultant. A company can give someone an Engineer job title if their services aren't sold directly to the public.

 

The engineering licensing boards are pretty protective since qualified engineers don't want people to use that title unless they actually know what they are doing. People who learned first aid skills in the army can do great work in an emergency but they can't call themselves doctors. A career criminal who is skilled at avoiding convictions can't call himself a lawyer even though they have extensive knowledge on how the criminal justice system works. I know someone who is a Chief Engineer and he and his employer were sued because he testified in a liability lawsuit. The licensing board said that his testifying in court was providing services to the public, but he got to keep his job title because he was doing work for his employer.

 

I got a P.E. license primarily because my Father-in-law and Brother-in-law had them and I wanted to pad my resume. I have never stamped a drawing and I haven't provided engineering services as a consultant, so it hasn't been particularly relevant in my career. 

LorenJ

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Message 27 of 35
cbenner
in reply to: NeilHarris8884

Funny you should mention the CAD Monkey!  There is a Dilbert hanging on our wall in the CAD room that originally had the phrase "Code" Monkey in it, but it was altered to CAD Monkey and enlarged for our benefit.  We have called ourselves CAD monkeys ever since.  We even have a plastic monkey on one desk as a mascot.

Message 28 of 35
cbenner
in reply to: stoob

Let's not forget, too, that there are a lot of CAD Monkeys (myself included) who consider themselves designers, even though they have no Engineering degree.  I have a degree in Design Technology and nearly 20 years on the tube, but due to the bleak economic conditions in the manufacturing industry in Michigan,.... CAD Monkey is the best I've been able to find lately, and glad to have that.  Much better than cleaning toilets (which I did for a while before I found this.)

Message 29 of 35
stoob
in reply to: cbenner

I'll start a CAD monkey asociation.

Message 30 of 35
Martin_Goodland
in reply to: cbenner

We have a picture of a banana on the wall of our drawing office.

 

Regards

Inventor 2023
Message 31 of 35

...then you might as well post a warning about what happens after that banana comes out the other end...

Steve Bahr...since 1962.
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Message 32 of 35
stoob
in reply to: Steve_Bahr

that's what she said

Message 33 of 35
Mike_Maenpaa
in reply to: cbenner


@cbenner wrote:

  Much better than cleaning toilets (which I did for a while before I found this.)


So, back then you were a Custodial Engineer. 😉

 

Mike

Message 34 of 35

My question here is sort of related, so forgive me for hijacking this thread.  Although I’ve posted a similar discussion on more then a few software and engineering forums, it hasn’t gotten much of a response because most of us post when we have a software issue, not just to chit chat!

 

What I’d like to ask you guys is, What realistic value and job security does a true “CAD Monkey” have?

 

I’ve been considering for some time now making a career move more towards embracing the idea of being a true “CAD Monkey”  I think it may make the most sense for me at this point for the sake of long term job stability.

 

I’m 30 years old, I have a degree in Industrial Design and 6 years of experience, but I’m struggling to find consistent employment and I have some serious doubts about my future in this field at this point.  With the present economy and the way things have been trending even since I graduated in ’04, things aren’t really improving for job prospects in my field.  Even in good times, Design departments in most companies are mostly small operations.  3-5 people is pretty average, not a cubicle farm full of staff like customer service, etc.   As a person with experience aligning closest with a “Senior Designer” position, I’m facing competition from designers with years and years of experience and managerial roles, and I’m facing fresh graduates with more software knowledge and lesser salary demands.  

 

I’ve held 3 different jobs, and none of them have been for longer then 3 years.  I’ve had to relocate 3 times for these jobs as well.  Each time I’ve looked for work it’s taken no less then 6 months to find a new job, and up until I got hired early this year I was unemployed for 8 months.

 

I’m concerned that if I continue to stay in this field I’ll be plagued with having to “pick up everything and start all over” every time I’m looking for work again.  I want to establish some sense of job stability, or at least the possibility that if I get let go from one job, there’s 50 other places in the same metro area I’m in that I could work for, not 3-5 places.  If things continue for me the way they have been, I will continue to feel very uneasy about making major life decisions like buying a house or starting a family if I don’t feel confident that I can maintain my livelihood with my career.

 

While I would love to strike out on my own as a freelancer or a Contract Designer, I feel like I lack the experience and the resources to make that happen at this point.  I don’t have the experience, contacts, vendor relationships, or necessary tools to make this happen.  Let’s face it, I could spend $15,000 on a proper computer and software alone.   

Failure seems more likely then success.

 

So what I’ve been thinking about doing is becoming a true “CAD Monkey.”  I know, Engineers and especially Product Designers like myself loathe the idea.  We want to do the “fun stuff” like coming up with the concepts, or Engineering them, not sit behind a computer desk all day doing 3D modeling, or worse yet, making part drawings off of SOMEONE ELSE’S model for 8 hours straight.

 

But the advantage I see is that if I do go out and get more experience in Parametric modeling programs then I would have the versatility to at least seek out contract work in more places.  I would hope that overtime as I build up expertise and experience that it would give me a decent pay grade and some job security.  

 

Yes, I do realize that I would probably start from the bottom being someone else’s B-word making tech. drawings all day and I probably wouldn’t even be modeling that much. I imagine that the hierarchy would be similar to my last job.  We had about 8 people with 3D modeling experience at any given time.  2 senior engineers that had a long history with the company who had the most responsibility to modeling new designs, 2 intermediate guys who were contract CAD designers, and at one point 3 straight up “CAD Monkeys” with non-engineering degrees that mostly sat there and did drawings from someone else’s model.  

 

The advantage I feel I would have though, is that even if they don’t hire me on to be an Industrial Designer, they can benefit from those skills that I possess.  Unlike most Engineers I can express my ideas visually through sketching, 2D renderings, etc. and communicate my ideas quickly onto paper so that someone else can see and understand them.  I can use photoshop to manipulate images of existing products to reflect what design changes would have on the product.  I can communicate these ideas to customers and marketing people as well.  

 

While I do NOT have the experience and the knowledge of an Engineer to do an FEA analysis or calculate the strength of a part, I can make an “informed decision” based upon manufacturing principles or the advice of others.  If you tell me the basic parameters of what the CNC machines or part molds can and cannot do, I will design a part with that in mind and do my best to make sure that what I’m designing is manufactureable. 

 

I’m also hoping that building 3D modeling expertise over time would give me the opportunity to freelance in design if I wanted to.  I could become a specialist in 3D modeling parts that are harder to model, and turn those files over to larger companies or design departments.  I know of people who are doing this already as a business with more 3D rendering and animation based work, or as Engineering Consultants.  A good friend of mine has made a successful business out of software training in Pro-E and he doesn’t even have a full Engineering degree.  His credentials and experience are good enough to gloss over that deficiency in training.  He even jokes about telling people “I went to U of Georgia for Engineering, I didn’t say that I actually graduated too.”  

 

I’d also certainly consider getting a true Mechanical Engineering degree over time too, but I don’t see myself going back to get that degree before I start working though.  $20K more in student load debt would kill me at this point, and there’s no guarantee that I’d find immediate employment with it anyway.  There are plenty of unemployed Engineers too.  I would happily pick away at it over time though taking a class or two a semester until I earn a degree.

 

So anyway, what do you think my chances would be taking this direction?

 

Would I just get the short end of the stick compared to true Engineers?

 

Message 35 of 35
kstate92
in reply to: sam_m

From what I've read, if a company has the word Engineer or Engineering in their company title but does not have a degreed Engineer (and possibly also certified as a PE by the state?) on staff,  the NSPE gets all over their case to protect against the erosion of the word and what it should entail - though I don't believe they have any real legal authority.

KState92
Inventor Professional 2020
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