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spackle42
Posts: 113
Registered: ‎05-12-2013
Message 11 of 30 (397 Views)

Re: Why use CAD?

08-12-2013 01:41 PM in reply to: SeanFarr

If your company has an ongoing relationship with the equipment manufacturer, you may find that they already have complete models that they would be willing to supply (offering to sign a non-disclosure agreement will go a long way).



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SeanFarr
Posts: 475
Registered: ‎07-25-2012
Message 12 of 30 (389 Views)

Re: Why use CAD?

08-12-2013 02:01 PM in reply to: spackle42

The 3rd party is a large manufacturing company from China, there is a huge problem, language barrier, we have a very hard time just ordering the right piece of equipment. I couldn't imagine trying to request documentation from them.

 

To broaden the situation. I have spent many hours getting this far in the project.

scoop.PNG

the model is to scale, but would need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb for manufacturing. This model includes the addons and upgrades. But now where I am having trouble is that everything that was on the scooptram (hydraulically and electrically ) is being completely re-done with "Canadian" standards and parts. This is another reason why the documentation from the 3rd party is not useful. I would like to either model or obtain from manufactures all the valves, accumulators, filters, hoses, wires, terminal blocks, engine (everything) and include in the model.

 

Hence this thread. Am I trying to do too much for nothing or will it pay off to spend hours making this a full model?

 

thanks to all who posted this far...I seem to see a trend "repeatability", Now I just need to sit my my higher uppers and discuss what they think is best.

Sean Farr
Product Designer at TESInc.ca

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JDMather
Posts: 26,246
Registered: ‎04-20-2006
Message 13 of 30 (385 Views)

Re: Why use CAD?

08-12-2013 02:10 PM in reply to: SeanFarr

SeanFarr wrote:
 

. This model includes the addons and upgrades. But now where I am having trouble is that everything that was on the scooptram (hydraulically and electrically ) is being completely re-done with "Canadian" standards and parts. ... I would like to either model or obtain from manufactures all the valves, accumulators, filters, hoses, wires, terminal blocks, engine (everything) and include in the model.

 


If all of your modifications are accomplished with off-the-shelf components from other manufactures I would only create very simplified models where needed.  (you might be able to get some of these from the manufacturers)

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SeanFarr
Posts: 475
Registered: ‎07-25-2012
Message 14 of 30 (380 Views)

Re: Why use CAD?

08-12-2013 02:26 PM in reply to: JDMather

JDMather wrote:

If all of your modifications are accomplished with off-the-shelf components from other manufactures I would only create very simplified models where needed.  (you might be able to get some of these from the manufacturers)


Yes this is my plan, however, it is also the roadblock I am up against, I would like to place all "purchased" parts and assemblies in there locations. This will help with keeping an itemized BOM and stuff like hose lengths and positions.

 

I was talking to our mechanic today as he was mounting an accumulator and hose. he said didn't know if what he was doing was ok, but after that hose there will another 20 hoses and there is no way to check for interferences except for the way he did it. I told him that our CAD system can do this with routing systems and he didn't believe it.

 

i know what I can do to streamline this model for production, I just need to convince my boss, that spending the time and effort to make a model will save time and money. It would probably help if I understood how they allocate the mechanics and electricians time, whether it is per job or just paid out as shop time...

 

Again, thanks for all the posts...they are very helpful and I plan to make a case to my bosses.

Sean Farr
Product Designer at TESInc.ca

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blair
Posts: 3,943
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 15 of 30 (374 Views)

Re: Why use CAD?

08-12-2013 02:39 PM in reply to: spackle42

All our air control lines & electrical are routed using Inventor. Air lines are all color coordinated. We also have a wireless network with industrial tablets for the production floor. All drawing are available in DWF with the solid model included. The techs assembling can pull up the view-rep of the air system and follow each colored line along with the orientation of the fittings.

 

If it fits in the 3D model, it should fit on the assembly floor unless someone assemblies it wrong.

 

FEA is also done on/with the 3D models. Parts books with exploded views are available using the IPN environment. Quick pre-production brochures can be done with either Studio or transferred into Showcase.

 

2D is just lines on a sheet/screen, you can't do interference and it takes a lot to calculate mass and C/G.

 

We even supply dealers with 3D solid models via DWF and the viewer. They can click on the part they need and it gives them the part number and related information.

 

3D models supplied by supplies aids in the design.

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SeanFarr
Posts: 475
Registered: ‎07-25-2012
Message 16 of 30 (359 Views)

Re: Why use CAD?

08-12-2013 03:25 PM in reply to: blair

i would to have this piece of equipment fully routed with all hydraulic lines and fittings, then press "Generate BOM" and have my bosses eyes pop out of there head.

 

There basic understanding of CAD is to draw things that are to be built or fabricated. they see fully modeling something as a waste of time and effort.

 

I will get there eventually, might take a few steps back first, but eventually someone or something will get them to realize there is a great benefit from 3D Modeling.

Sean Farr
Product Designer at TESInc.ca

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MikahB
Posts: 206
Registered: ‎10-11-2009
Message 17 of 30 (351 Views)

Re: Why use CAD?

08-12-2013 03:50 PM in reply to: SeanFarr

Sean - trying to pitch an expensive project to management always comes down to money - it has to.  Better graphics in your manuals or even faster preparation of your manuals is a nice side benefit, but it ain't gonna pay the bills.  Nobody believes Bill the all-knowing mechanical guy is ever going to get hit by a bus enough to spend money on it, so that's typically a non-starter too.

 

You need to approach this from a time-to-market perspective because that is much easier to convert into $$$$.  Three easy steps:

 

1)  Find out if your supplier is A) using 3D CAD models and B) willing to share them with you after signing an NDA, etc.

2)  Assuming they have and are willing to share the data, then ask them how long it normally takes a product change to go from approved CAD model to delivery to Canada.  It's very likely months.

3)  Approach your Sales group and ask them if there would be value in TESInc bringing products to market X months faster.  They will probably clap and cheer and make outrageous sales promises if only they had that capability.

 

And that's it - now it's not Sean the CAD guy arguing for CAD, it's Sales asking "Hey Boss Guy: Sean says his fancy 3D CAD system would let him have a new product fully designed and maybe even built before the equipment gets to our door - why don't we have him working on that already???"

 

Good luck!!

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SeanFarr
Posts: 475
Registered: ‎07-25-2012
Message 18 of 30 (345 Views)

Re: Why use CAD?

08-12-2013 04:15 PM in reply to: MikahB

haha, I enjoyed this,

 

Thanks! Will use these points for sure!!

Sean Farr
Product Designer at TESInc.ca

Inventor Professional 2014-Update 2 - AutoCAD Electrical 2014
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rdyson
Posts: 878
Registered: ‎04-11-2005
Message 19 of 30 (304 Views)

Re: Why use CAD?

08-13-2013 06:44 AM in reply to: SeanFarr
If it breaks and causes injury, who's at fault and how do you prove it? Was the cause a change made in your shop or by the customer.
Without documentation, who knows what a judge or jury might decide.
This can go the wrong way too, of course if your shop doesn't follow your documentation.
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cbenner
Posts: 3,166
Registered: ‎04-06-2010
Message 20 of 30 (299 Views)

Re: Why use CAD?

08-13-2013 06:53 AM in reply to: SeanFarr

I can give you a good example from experience.  The company I work for was started 40 years ago and the drawings they made for the equipment usually consisted of a few sketches on some note paper, a hand written parts list, and after the fact, some poloroids.

 

Last year one of our older customers needed to do some major rework on their equipment... for the 4th time (pretty good considering it's been in service over 20 years).  I had to try to compile a CAD model of their unit based on 20 years worth of photographs, in order to be able to figure out if what they wanted to do was going to fit in the room the machine is in.

 

A good CAD model/drawing (2D or 3D) will answer those questions up front, and will be there in a few years or so when the customer inevitably needs an upgrade or repairs or rework.

 

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