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Tolerances

20 REPLIES 20
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Message 1 of 21
Anonymous
243 Views, 20 Replies

Tolerances

I see that in R6, in the parameters, there are a couple of new columns
that on the surface appear to be really useful, but I'm at a loss as to
how one might use them.

The one I'm looking at is entitled "Tol.". I would have thought this
might be useful in that one could specify the tolerance of a feature in
the modelling stage and have it carried through to the drawing.
However, I'm completely perplexed as to why it is there and what one
does with it. Online help appears to have been written using the
'Enigma Machine' so it hasn't helped.

Has anybody figured this one out?

Richard
20 REPLIES 20
Message 2 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Richard,
How about this one. Visual Basic for Application in Inventor. It
certainly is not what the title says. It is very heavily structure object
oriented programming, with no windows to construct, just reams and reams of
terse structured program.
I remember the old days. First portable computer I worked on was a
PDP11, with little round magnetized cores for memory. To turn on you really
had to bootstrap the big box. Flip these switches and then those. and then
stick you program ticker tape in to read in your program. It used basic.
Very little structure, short little words and of course very little that
could be done, but I was good at it.
So much for my fuddle duddle remarks.
Ole

"Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
news:3DF25E3C.70002@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> I see that in R6, in the parameters, there are a couple of new columns
> that on the surface appear to be really useful, but I'm at a loss as to
> how one might use them.
>
> The one I'm looking at is entitled "Tol.". I would have thought this
> might be useful in that one could specify the tolerance of a feature in
> the modelling stage and have it carried through to the drawing.
> However, I'm completely perplexed as to why it is there and what one
> does with it. Online help appears to have been written using the
> 'Enigma Machine' so it hasn't helped.
>
> Has anybody figured this one out?
>
> Richard
>
Message 3 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

When sketching, as you add a dim the box comes up where you type the value,
right click in it and select "Tolerance"

You can add tolerance to sketch dims which pass through to the drawing.

You can also do this when prompted for a value in the Extrude dialogue
etc.etc.

HTH

Rory


"Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
news:3DF25E3C.70002@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> I see that in R6, in the parameters, there are a couple of new columns
> that on the surface appear to be really useful, but I'm at a loss as to
> how one might use them.
>
> The one I'm looking at is entitled "Tol.". I would have thought this
> might be useful in that one could specify the tolerance of a feature in
> the modelling stage and have it carried through to the drawing.
> However, I'm completely perplexed as to why it is there and what one
> does with it. Online help appears to have been written using the
> 'Enigma Machine' so it hasn't helped.
>
> Has anybody figured this one out?
>
> Richard
>
Message 4 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Rory:

Thanks ever so much for your input. By following your instructions I
created a model of a disk Ø5.125 x 0.5 thick and applied a tolerance of
+0.000 and - 0.005 to the diameter. By using the 'Get Model Dimensions'
and modifying the tolerance I managed to achieve my results.

There's no doubt the addition of this feature was well intentioned, but,
for the edification of the IV developers, I'd like to take the liberty
of describing steps I took that me to my frustration:

1/ Copied an existing part and it's drawing. The part is a disk with a
hole in it. Both had to be slightly modified.
2/ Since starting to use IV6.0, I'd noticed the "Tol." field and assumed
I could add a tolerance here. I tried various combinations of right or
left clicking here but the results were futile. Try it. For software
that supposedly works the way I do, this is confusing. If the field is
there, it should do something, or at least it should show that you've
done something.
3/ Spent (wasted) 1/2 hour wading through the on-line help and found
some 'Motherhood and apple pie' type propaganda on the subject but
absolutely no help. Please, do you have to make it so obvious that the
author of your online help has neither a clue about what IV does nor
what users are trying to achieve with the product.

The expectations I had, but was completely disappointed in were:

1/ In the parameters list, click on 'Tol.' and be able to add tolerances.
2/ Once, through the kind advice of someone on this newsgroup, a
tolerance was applied, it should be presented by changing the tolerance
in the drawing.
3/ The slightest, subtlest, hint of a clue in the online help. At least
this could have indicated how absolutely ridiculously restricted this
feature is.


Thanks for letting me vent my frustration.

Richard
Message 5 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

In the Parameters dialog box you can pick the value in the Equation column.
When the value is selcted the arrow pulldown menu will appear and you can
set the tolerance here as well.

The Tol. column is used to quickley set the dimension at its min, max, and
nominal field.

I agree that it should be easier to find information through the help. It's
there if you know what to look for, but there's no tutorials for it.


"Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
news:3DF27F6C.6080504@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> Rory:
>
> Thanks ever so much for your input. By following your instructions I
> created a model of a disk Ø5.125 x 0.5 thick and applied a tolerance of
> +0.000 and - 0.005 to the diameter. By using the 'Get Model Dimensions'
> and modifying the tolerance I managed to achieve my results.
>
> There's no doubt the addition of this feature was well intentioned, but,
> for the edification of the IV developers, I'd like to take the liberty
> of describing steps I took that me to my frustration:
>
> 1/ Copied an existing part and it's drawing. The part is a disk with a
> hole in it. Both had to be slightly modified.
> 2/ Since starting to use IV6.0, I'd noticed the "Tol." field and assumed
> I could add a tolerance here. I tried various combinations of right or
> left clicking here but the results were futile. Try it. For software
> that supposedly works the way I do, this is confusing. If the field is
> there, it should do something, or at least it should show that you've
> done something.
> 3/ Spent (wasted) 1/2 hour wading through the on-line help and found
> some 'Motherhood and apple pie' type propaganda on the subject but
> absolutely no help. Please, do you have to make it so obvious that the
> author of your online help has neither a clue about what IV does nor
> what users are trying to achieve with the product.
>
> The expectations I had, but was completely disappointed in were:
>
> 1/ In the parameters list, click on 'Tol.' and be able to add tolerances.
> 2/ Once, through the kind advice of someone on this newsgroup, a
> tolerance was applied, it should be presented by changing the tolerance
> in the drawing.
> 3/ The slightest, subtlest, hint of a clue in the online help. At least
> this could have indicated how absolutely ridiculously restricted this
> feature is.
>
>
> Thanks for letting me vent my frustration.
>
> Richard
>
Message 6 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

They do need to work on the way tolerances are passed to the IDW however.
Right now unless you use "Get Model Dims" which I think only <1% of people
do (I certainly don't) it's several clicks to get them to show up
correctly..

--
Sean Dotson, PE
http://www.sdotson.com
Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
www.sdotson.com/faq.html
"Rory" wrote in message
news:2BD3121D5682E52C92C60E02C001073D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> When sketching, as you add a dim the box comes up where you type the
value,
> right click in it and select "Tolerance"
>
> You can add tolerance to sketch dims which pass through to the drawing.
>
> You can also do this when prompted for a value in the Extrude dialogue
> etc.etc.
>
> HTH
>
> Rory
>
>
> "Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
> news:3DF25E3C.70002@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> > I see that in R6, in the parameters, there are a couple of new columns
> > that on the surface appear to be really useful, but I'm at a loss as to
> > how one might use them.
> >
> > The one I'm looking at is entitled "Tol.". I would have thought this
> > might be useful in that one could specify the tolerance of a feature in
> > the modelling stage and have it carried through to the drawing.
> > However, I'm completely perplexed as to why it is there and what one
> > does with it. Online help appears to have been written using the
> > 'Enigma Machine' so it hasn't helped.
> >
> > Has anybody figured this one out?
> >
> > Richard
> >
>
>
Message 7 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Joe:

Thank you. I'd love to know how all of you figure these things out.

Do you have any idea what the yellow circle, + and - mean?

Richard

Joe Bartels wrote:
> In the Parameters dialog box you can pick the value in the Equation column.
> When the value is selcted the arrow pulldown menu will appear and you can
> set the tolerance here as well.
>
> The Tol. column is used to quickley set the dimension at its min, max, and
> nominal field.
>
> I agree that it should be easier to find information through the help. It's
> there if you know what to look for, but there's no tutorials for it.
>
>
> "Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
> news:3DF27F6C.6080504@hfx.eastlink.ca...
>
Message 8 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Sean:

It sure seems that way. Why isn't that in help? Is Adesk too
embarrassed to admit this (and I'm not sure I'm referring to on-line
help or tolerance) is just a marketing tool with limited practical use?

Richard

Sean Dotson wrote:
> They do need to work on the way tolerances are passed to the IDW however.
> Right now unless you use "Get Model Dims" which I think only <1% of people
> do (I certainly don't) it's several clicks to get them to show up
> correctly..
>
> --
> Sean Dotson, PE
> http://www.sdotson.com
> Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
> www.sdotson.com/faq.html
Message 9 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

And while I'm beating a dead horse, now that I've finally figured out
how to add a tolerance, when I 'Get Model Dimensions' for a dimension
with a tolerance the text appears with an underline. If I manually
apply tolerances to a dimension, which we all agree should happen
automatically, there's no underline. Why the discrepancy? Either it's
an ANSI standard and should apply in each case, or it's not and it
should apply in neither.

Gosh I'm picky tonight.

Richard


Sean Dotson wrote:
> They do need to work on the way tolerances are passed to the IDW however.
> Right now unless you use "Get Model Dims" which I think only <1% of people
> do (I certainly don't) it's several clicks to get them to show up
> correctly..
>
> --
> Sean Dotson, PE
> http://www.sdotson.com
> Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
> www.sdotson.com/faq.html
Message 10 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I just assumed that the yellow circle meant the dimension is modeled at
nominal; the + models the dimension at its max; the - models the dimension
at its min. I think this may be half useful for checking for tolerance
stack interferences. Although, I haven't tested my theories thoroughly.

--
Cory McConnell
BJ Pipeline Inspection
"Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
news:3DF28E07.10808@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> Joe:
>
> Thank you. I'd love to know how all of you figure these things out.
>
> Do you have any idea what the yellow circle, + and - mean?
>
> Richard
>
> Joe Bartels wrote:
> > In the Parameters dialog box you can pick the value in the Equation
column.
> > When the value is selcted the arrow pulldown menu will appear and you
can
> > set the tolerance here as well.
> >
> > The Tol. column is used to quickley set the dimension at its min, max,
and
> > nominal field.
> >
> > I agree that it should be easier to find information through the help.
It's
> > there if you know what to look for, but there's no tutorials for it.
> >
> >
> > "Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in
message
> > news:3DF27F6C.6080504@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> >
>
Message 11 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

That's exactly what it is. Juts keep in mind it can blow up an assy real
quick. It may give you constraint errors at a point no where near the part
that changed tolerances. Juts keep it in mind...

--
Sean Dotson, PE
http://www.sdotson.com
Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
www.sdotson.com/faq.html
"Cory McConnell" wrote in message
news:87B7959E132DA5DFDF3357857B048B73@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I just assumed that the yellow circle meant the dimension is modeled at
> nominal; the + models the dimension at its max; the - models the dimension
> at its min. I think this may be half useful for checking for tolerance
> stack interferences. Although, I haven't tested my theories
thoroughly.
>
> --
> Cory McConnell
> BJ Pipeline Inspection
> "Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
> news:3DF28E07.10808@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> > Joe:
> >
> > Thank you. I'd love to know how all of you figure these things out.
> >
> > Do you have any idea what the yellow circle, + and - mean?
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > Joe Bartels wrote:
> > > In the Parameters dialog box you can pick the value in the Equation
> column.
> > > When the value is selcted the arrow pulldown menu will appear and you
> can
> > > set the tolerance here as well.
> > >
> > > The Tol. column is used to quickley set the dimension at its min, max,
> and
> > > nominal field.
> > >
> > > I agree that it should be easier to find information through the help.
> It's
> > > there if you know what to look for, but there's no tutorials for it.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in
> message
> > > news:3DF27F6C.6080504@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> > >
> >
>
>
Message 12 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Cory an Sean:

Thanks. As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me to
experiment with exactly what you describe. I certainly hadn't thought
it through to the point of causing constraint errors so that heads-up is
appreciated.

Richard

Sean Dotson wrote:
> That's exactly what it is. Juts keep in mind it can blow up an assy real
> quick. It may give you constraint errors at a point no where near the part
> that changed tolerances. Juts keep it in mind...
>
> --
> Sean Dotson, PE
> http://www.sdotson.com
> Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
> www.sdotson.com/faq.html
> "Cory McConnell" wrote in message
> news:87B7959E132DA5DFDF3357857B048B73@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
>>I just assumed that the yellow circle meant the dimension is modeled at
>>nominal; the + models the dimension at its max; the - models the dimension
>>at its min. I think this may be half useful for checking for tolerance
>>stack interferences. Although, I haven't tested my theories
>
> thoroughly.
>
>>--
>>Cory McConnell
>>BJ Pipeline Inspection
>>"Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
>>news:3DF28E07.10808@hfx.eastlink.ca...
>>
>>>Joe:
>>>
>>>Thank you. I'd love to know how all of you figure these things out.
>>>
>>>Do you have any idea what the yellow circle, + and - mean?
>>>
>>>Richard
>>>
>>>Joe Bartels wrote:
>>>
>>>>In the Parameters dialog box you can pick the value in the Equation
>>>
>>column.
>>
>>>>When the value is selcted the arrow pulldown menu will appear and you
>>>
>>can
>>
>>>>set the tolerance here as well.
>>>>
>>>>The Tol. column is used to quickley set the dimension at its min, max,
>>>
>>and
>>
>>>>nominal field.
>>>>
>>>>I agree that it should be easier to find information through the help.
>>>
>>It's
>>
>>>>there if you know what to look for, but there's no tutorials for it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in
>>>
>>message
>>
>>>>news:3DF27F6C.6080504@hfx.eastlink.ca...
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Message 13 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Sorry all for the grumpy tone in this thread. I can't imagine it having
anything to do with working on a Saturday evening.

I'd like to make it clear that I'm glad the tolerance functionality has
been added to IV and I hope the developers have plans to polish up the
interface a bit.

Richard
Message 14 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

That's an important point to remember. I was a very big critic of what was
put into R6 as tolerances but I have toned down as I have used it more. You
have to start somewhere and I know this is just the first step. You are
probably feeling the same things.

--
Sean Dotson, PE
http://www.sdotson.com
Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
www.sdotson.com/faq.html
"Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
news:3DF359AE.1050503@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> Sorry all for the grumpy tone in this thread. I can't imagine it having
> anything to do with working on a Saturday evening.
>
> I'd like to make it clear that I'm glad the tolerance functionality has
> been added to IV and I hope the developers have plans to polish up the
> interface a bit.
>
> Richard
>
Message 15 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Sean:

I think what tipped me over the deep end on this was the lack of help
available in the help screen.

I managed to uncover paragraph after paragraph about what tolerances are
and how useful they are, but no instructions on how one use them within
the IV environment.

Richard

Sean Dotson wrote:
> That's an important point to remember. I was a very big critic of what was
> put into R6 as tolerances but I have toned down as I have used it more. You
> have to start somewhere and I know this is just the first step. You are
> probably feeling the same things.
>
> --
> Sean Dotson, PE
> http://www.sdotson.com
> Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
> www.sdotson.com/faq.html
Message 16 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

When I sat down to use Inventor the first time (R4 Trial Version), I opened
up help looked at a few things became totally confused, and closed it.
haven't had it open since. When R6 came I opened up the manual, just for
fun, and discovered it was quite a joke in its own right. Weldments
aren't even mentioned.

--
Cory McConnell
BJ Pipeline Inspection
"Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
news:3DF37780.1060607@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> Sean:
>
> I think what tipped me over the deep end on this was the lack of help
> available in the help screen.
>
> I managed to uncover paragraph after paragraph about what tolerances are
> and how useful they are, but no instructions on how one use them within
> the IV environment.
>
> Richard
>
> Sean Dotson wrote:
> > That's an important point to remember. I was a very big critic of what
was
> > put into R6 as tolerances but I have toned down as I have used it more.
You
> > have to start somewhere and I know this is just the first step. You are
> > probably feeling the same things.
> >
> > --
> > Sean Dotson, PE
> > http://www.sdotson.com
> > Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
> > www.sdotson.com/faq.html
>
Message 17 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"Sean Dotson" wrote in message
news:FD54CB4DA8E05CD41E6ED1D813273FB0@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> They do need to work on the way tolerances are passed to the IDW however.
> Right now unless you use "Get Model Dims" which I think only <1% of
people
> do (I certainly don't) it's several clicks to get them to show up
> correctly..

Sean, are you saying that you can get tolerances to display if you don't use
"Get Model DIms"?

How?
Message 18 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Yes but it's a difficult (IMO) process. I'll outline it for everyone
tomorrow.

--
Sean Dotson, PE
http://www.sdotson.com
Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
www.sdotson.com/faq.html
"Ron Crain" wrote in message
news:DA59CD1C512D10E83925A32A990BD815@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> news:FD54CB4DA8E05CD41E6ED1D813273FB0@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > They do need to work on the way tolerances are passed to the IDW
however.
> > Right now unless you use "Get Model Dims" which I think only <1% of
> people
> > do (I certainly don't) it's several clicks to get them to show up
> > correctly..
>
> Sean, are you saying that you can get tolerances to display if you don't
use
> "Get Model DIms"?
>
> How?
>
>
Message 19 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

You know what Ron. I was wrong. I was thinking about hole notes. That you
can do. Regular dimensions are a no go. Which is why I find them useless
in the state they are now. As I said before I understand they need to start
somewhere but right now they are useless..

--
Sean Dotson, PE
http://www.sdotson.com
Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
http://www.sdotson.com/faq.html
-----------------------------------------
"Ron Crain" wrote in message
news:DA59CD1C512D10E83925A32A990BD815@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> news:FD54CB4DA8E05CD41E6ED1D813273FB0@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > They do need to work on the way tolerances are passed to the IDW
however.
> > Right now unless you use "Get Model Dims" which I think only <1% of
> people
> > do (I certainly don't) it's several clicks to get them to show up
> > correctly..
>
> Sean, are you saying that you can get tolerances to display if you don't
use
> "Get Model DIms"?
>
> How?
>
>
Message 20 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Useless, yes. If only they allowed selective "get model dimensions".


"Sean Dotson" wrote in message
news:BC303895943742BAD0005D066A155905@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> You know what Ron. I was wrong. I was thinking about hole notes. That you
> can do. Regular dimensions are a no go. Which is why I find them useless
> in the state they are now. As I said before I understand they need to
start
> somewhere but right now they are useless..
>
> --
> Sean Dotson, PE
> http://www.sdotson.com
> Check the Inventor FAQ for most common questions
> http://www.sdotson.com/faq.html
> -----------------------------------------
> "Ron Crain" wrote in message
> news:DA59CD1C512D10E83925A32A990BD815@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> >
> > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > news:FD54CB4DA8E05CD41E6ED1D813273FB0@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > They do need to work on the way tolerances are passed to the IDW
> however.
> > > Right now unless you use "Get Model Dims" which I think only <1% of
> > people
> > > do (I certainly don't) it's several clicks to get them to show up
> > > correctly..
> >
> > Sean, are you saying that you can get tolerances to display if you don't
> use
> > "Get Model DIms"?
> >
> > How?
> >
> >
>
>

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