Recessed Countersunk Holes

[bbeilke]

I am looking for the best way to create a recessed countersunk hole as shown below.

We use these types of holes in AR steel wear liners that may be 1/2" to 2" thick.  In reality, the fab shop drills the thru hole first and then comes back with a countersink bit and adds that feature.  Once the countersink reaches the max. diameter of that bit, the hole becomes a straight bore as they go deeper into the plate.

I haven't been able to come up with any way of creating this type of hole (using the "Hole" tool and not something like a "Revolve") that doesn't require (2) stacked hole features.  (And, yes, I understand that 2 such features can be combined into a single iFeature.)  Since there are (2) stacked hole features, when I try to add a hole note in a drawing, even a customized note doesn't have access to the information from both features. If I create a side view as shown, I can pick the different individual features and get the proper information but that is not a very elegant solution.

So, problem #1 is how to best model these holes and problem #2 is how to most efficiently get all the proper info into a hole note on the detail drawing.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[JDMather]

For features like this I create Punch tools even when the part is nothing like a sheet metal part.

Unfortunately you have to toggle to the sheet metal environment (can't simply drag the Punch icon to the ribbon and have it work).

This allows you to place almost identical to using the Hole feature command.

But doesn't give you a hole callout on drawing.  Unless someone knows a trick with Punch tools, you would have to manually detail the dimensions.

[Paul-Mason]

I usuall use the hole command to first creat the counter bore hole with the flat botton first then use the hole comand agin with linier, threaded counter sunck option kilick the bottom of the fist hole and make the rest of the settings the same your fist hole, you mignt find the second satge esier to do by using the view quater section to be able to get the right face

See the attached

[bbeilke]

That is almost identical to how I created hole shown in the image I attached (without the threads or the ledge/lip between the counterbore and countersink).  The problem I have is with that method is creating a single hole note on a drawing that contains all the pertinent information about that hole (counterbore diameter and depth, countersink diameter and angle, and thru hole diameter) short of manually entering those values.

[IgorMir]

No matter what you do - it is two steps process at a moment. The way I have done it in the past is shown on the attached picture.

Cheers,

Igor.

---

@bbeilke wrote:

So, problem #1 is how to best model these holes and problem #2 is how to most efficiently get all the proper info into a hole note on the detail drawing.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

---

[innovatenate]

Have you looked into creating a Custom Dimension Style in your Drawings? Within the Dimension Style, you can create a custom Hole Note Format that may allow you to annotate the hole callout as desired. Please note that I haven't tested this, but this seems like the best way to accomplish this.

I'm not sure if you will be able to capture all of the data from two coincident hole features in one callout, but you may try to insert the variables into the hole note and see what happens. I would be curious if the hole feature share the same sketch if it would be possible to get this to work. 

The below Ideastation post may be something to add some Kudos to raise the priority of this feature enhancment request.

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Inventor-IdeaStation/Countersunk-bored-holes/idi-p/4788715

I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,

[bbeilke]

The problem with the hole note in general is that there doesn't seem to be anyway to pull information from the (2) separate, stacked hole features need to model these holes into (1) hole note.  Of course I could go into the note and make it say whatever I'd like using static text in place of model parameters, but I don't like that idea.  I've even tried manually modifying the note from the countersink portion of the hole to add the counterbore/straight bore information using model parameters names such as "d9" but, at least in my efforts to date, the hole note just interprets that as text rather than a live value.  If anyone knows of a way to insert a parameter other than the ones available in the "Values and Symbols" section, please let me know.

So as far as a custom dimension style goes, that doesn't help me if I cannot create an acceptable hole note in the first place.  (And by acceptable I mean a single note that conveys all the required information about that hole and in which all dimensional values update automatically if the model is modified.)

[dannyc2]

Have you tried creating a solid that is the shape you want then insert it then remove it?

Lilke creating a hole then extruded, or cut out

[JDMather]

---

@dannyc2 wrote:

Have you tried creating a solid that is the shape you want then insert it then remove it?

Lilke creating a hole then extruded, or cut out

---

Can you attach example here (including the drawing note callout)?

[bbeilke]

JD,

I've attached a sample wear liner and drawing.  This is a cross-section of the hole as detailed on the drawing:

This snip shows the (2) hole notes generated by the (2) separate, stacked hole features.  Since I've modeled the thru hole as part of the countersink, I can select that feature by pointing to the inner diameter.  Pointing to the outer diameter selects the "top" straight-bore hole feature.

This is the type of note I'd like to be able to create using live parameters.  However I actually made this note by manually adding the middle line to the countersink feature hole note just as an example.  To construct that middle line I reused the countersink bore (<CSDIA>) which is numerically equivalent to the straight bore diameter (and linked as model parameters) but the depth of the straight bore (15/16) is static text that would have to manually editted whenever the hole was changed which is obviously less than ideal.

[bbeilke]

Danny,

There are certainly several ways to create holes/voids of this shape. For instance, I can create a cross-section profile sketch of the hole and use a single revolve feature to create a "hole" rather than (2) stacked hole features. And you can take any of these methods and create an iFeature from them if you'd like. However, it has always been our standard practice to use hole features to create holes rather than doing something like extruding circles. Hole features combined with hole notes normally gives you automatic access to embedded intelligence that isn't avialable using extruded or revolved features.

As such, I created this post in the hope that someone would know of a method that I was missing to create this type of hole (that to me doesn't seem that unusual) using (1) hole feature only. And short of that, I've been looking for a way to create a single hole note that can pull live parameter values from the (2) separate hole features. But I haven't been successful in that regard either. It appears that in order to create this type of hole the "right way" (which IMO mean using a single hole feature), Autodesk will need to simply add one additional parameter to the countersink hole option (or create an additional "combination" hole if that would be preferrable).

Which brings up another issue.  What is the protocol in cases such as this where there really isn't a solution at this time due to limitations of the software iteself.  Do I mark some post as a "solution" when all we have are various workarounds to the real problem?

[mrattray]

It depends on whether you're satisfied or not. Perhaps, accepting the link that was posted on the previous page to the Idea Station like would make sense, but it's up to you.
This must be one of those odd industry specific things. I've never had any need for such a hole. I just use a SHCS with a standard counter bore for wear liners.

[bbeilke]

---

@mrattray wrote:
It depends on whether you're satisfied or not. Perhaps, accepting the link that was posted on the previous page to the Idea Station like would make sense, but it's up to you.
This must be one of those odd industry specific things. I've never had any need for such a hole. I just use a SHCS with a standard counter bore for wear liners.

---

Well, we also use standard socket head cap screws for our thick liners (2.5", 3").  But for thinner plates we generally use flat head socket cap screws and countersink them as deep as we can so that we don't wear the heads off.  FWIW, I'm in the mining industry and these liners are used in chutes and hoppers that are subjected to constant impact and wear from crushed stone when the plants are operating.  In really bad areas with larger sizes of stone, we actually use cast manganese liners and socket head cap screws.  The manganese liners don't wear away nearly as quickly as the AR steel liners can so the higher profile (taller head) of the SHCSs are not an issue there.

[dannyc2]

1 - What would happen if you created one hole in the time consuming way then just copied the results to where you wanted the next one.

2 - too bad the metal is so thin - you could use a plug to protect the screw head.

3 - Keeping this going - for a little while - just means that someone else may come up with a "strange" way to make it all work, but hasn't seen the post yet

[instrumentmakerij-santing]

I've recently switched from Solidworks to Inventor, but I also cannot see a way to insert countersunk holes with head clearance. In the screencast is the menu from standard SW. Maybe Inventor can implement a similar option.

[IgorMir]

No, it is still the same as it was three years ago. All the solutions offered then are still valid and current!

Cheers,

Igor.

---

@instrumentmakerij-santing wrote:

I've recently switched from Solidworks to Inventor, but I also cannot see a way to insert countersunk holes with head clearance. In the screencast is the menu from standard SW. Maybe Inventor can implement a similar option.

[instrumentmakerij-santing]

I make a lot of parts which have to be machined that contain recessed holes. It would be a great option though.. Also the countersink on a threaded hole would be a great option, or a chamfer at the bottom of a hole. Come on Autodesk development team!!You guys can do it! It will save a lot of time. Lots of engineers would be thankful.

[mcgyvr]

Here is an "ideastation" post about this type of functionality..

There are very few votes for it currently which says there really isn't much demand for it (or people just haven't seen the idea posting)..

So here it is..

vote away..

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideas/counter-drilled-holes/idi-p/4378836

[mcgyvr]

---

@mcgyvr wrote:

Here is an "ideastation" post about this type of functionality..

There are very few votes for it currently which says there really isn't much demand for it (or people just haven't seen the idea posting)..

So here it is..

vote away..

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideas/counter-drilled-holes/idi-p/4378836

---

Thanks to Dan for merging that idea with another that is a duplicate of it that I didn't find..

That duplicate sure had more votes than the one I found.. 

There is a considerable demand for this functionality..