Community
Inventor Forum
Welcome to Autodesk’s Inventor Forums. Share your knowledge, ask questions, and explore popular Inventor topics.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Quadro (best available) vs Other Graphics Cards

43 REPLIES 43
Reply
Message 1 of 44
WORKSTATIONresearch
26234 Views, 43 Replies

Quadro (best available) vs Other Graphics Cards

Why do so many recommend GTX graphics cards over Quadro?  Why do you feel Autodesk is wrong when they recommend Quadro?  My choice is nVidia as a brand, since I hope they will be around in the future for any support issues.  I’ve had bad experiences with card manufacturers disappearing or being acquired, such as 3Dlabs (acquired by Creative, then disbanded) and Diamond Multimedia (acquired by ATI, support suspended).

 

I’m in configuration mode for a new workstation, and must carefully select components so the hardware can handle large assemblies (up to 10,000 parts of varying complexity).

 

I need the latest thinking on this.  What I’ve seen so far (I’ve sorted discussions by date.) are dismissals of the value of using Quadro over other high end graphics cards, but no real specifics on what the problems are when using Quadro cards vs GTX, for example.  There have been statements that performance of Quadro is no better, or even worse than alternatives.  Please explain how Autodesk’s graphics card recommendations fail to include the alternatives, which would support the claims of users.  Is it because it is too expensive to research alternatives, or because that is all they use when certifying it to be used with the software?  I probably should find any comments by Autodesk that specifically state why NOT to use anything but Quadro.  nVidia does have some attractive claims concerning their CUDA technology that seem to indicate it would enhance performance when running Inventor.

 

I will be running:

 

Autodesk Product Design Suite 2012

Graphics Card: TBD

Intel Core i7-990X

SSD: OCZ Technology Revo Drive 3 Series 240GB PCI Express

SATA Drive-1 Tbyte: TBD

Motherboard: TBD

Case: TBD

Memory: TBD

OS: MS Windows 7, 64-bit

Pwr Sply: TBD

43 REPLIES 43
Message 21 of 44
WORKSTATIONresearch
in reply to: sam_m

Thanks, 2grumpy,

 

I need to have these notices go away that state my PNY (nVidia) Quadro FX 4000 graphics card is not getting enough power.  They seem to be false because the performance was adequate until the size of the project started slowing down performance to the point that it became evident my hardware had to be replaced if I was to make adequate progress.  Research on the replacement is now occupying considerable time, but I believe it will be well spent.

 

I’m certain that after my research is done and I’ve taken the hardware advice provided so far there will be a marked increase in performance.  I was only considering Quadro based graphics cards in the beginning, but the feedback has convinced me that nVidia’s GeForce GTX 590 (or another licensed mfr) is the way to go.  EVGA seems a good choice for the mbd and graphics at this point.

 

One thing you wrote that was interesting was that your project also has approx. 10,000 parts, and that you are using 2012 with better performance.  Are you able to quantify the IDW performance?  Are you able to produce parts lists of your assemblies without problems? I assume your parts lists must be pretty large if you have 10,000 parts.

Message 22 of 44

in addition to that - i got my Video card through internet from Amazon.com for about US$ 800

Message 23 of 44
WORKSTATIONresearch
in reply to: blair

This message is in reply to information provided by Brian.

 

You list your EVGA nVidia graphics card as: Nvidia GTX-590 Classified - 275.33

First of all, what does the "275.33" referr to?

 

The EVGA GTX-590 Classified comes in two flavors.  One is water cooled (hydro copper).  I didn't see any reference to water cooling on your GPU, so I assume it uses a fan.  The fan cooled model is at:

http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=03G-P3-1596-AR&family=GeForce%20500%20Series%20Family&s...

 

The “Hydro Copper” model is listed at the following link:
http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=03G-P3-1599-AR&family=GeForce%20500%20Series%20Family&s...=

 

A YouTube video describes the “Hydro Copper”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iIwPMycyvVA

 

This is a very expensive GPU at an MSRP of over $880.  That means it can be bought for less by shopping.  How much less?  Can’t tell yet.  But this GPU has a lifetime warranty as does the EVGA fan cooled model.  That’s great support for their products.  They claim the water cooled model will run at a max temp of 40 degrees Celsius (104 degrees Fahrenheit).  That’s fantastic!  What gets lost in such considerations are requirements to cool the room where the computer is running, so a good cooling system can pay for itself.  Thanks for recommending this manufacturer to me, Brian. 

 

There is a helpful “Hardware Buyer’s Guide” web page that lists all compatible components required to build a high end system for around $2800 that includes all components from the case to the CPU:

http://www.geforce.com/#/Optimize/Guides/hardware-buyers-guide

 

The water cooled system is about $140 more, as far as I can tell, so it would cost around $3200 + the water circulation system.  I haven’t looked into how much more that would be as yet.  Let’s say a reliable water circulation add-on is $500 (probably far too high), and then the price tag would be $3700.  I really don’t like the idea of water circulating in a case full of electronics, which brings on nightmares of a leak and ruined hardware, or worse (a fire) but the superior cooling is a compelling argument.

 

While $3700 seems high (I’m sure that price can be lowered a bit) a system with less than half the capability would cost nearly $10,000 to have a custom build from Dell.  And Dell would provide their vanilla one-size-fits-all case.  When I started making inquiries I began emailing Dell and discovered they would not disclose the ventilation specs on the system I’d customized.  They considered it “proprietary information”.

Message 24 of 44

Hi,

we manage parts list showing subassembly only if necessary. That reduces parts list length but adds number of drawing showing more detailed assembly. The final assembly is sort of illustration - photographic style to easy read by persons not having technical qualifications.

 

i have been trying to find way to compare performance of the graphic cards and have find that Quadro (workstation) cards are listening number of calculation per second that card can do. On the other hand gaming cards are given sort of performance ratings on prepared tests. is any way of relate this two?

Message 25 of 44
sam_m
in reply to: WORKSTATIONresearch

If you're getting low power warnings are you sure your psu is up to the job?  (and take note that the GTX590 will need a decent psu too).

 

use a calculator like the link below to check you're at least within the ball-park:

http://www.thermaltake.outervision.com/

 

 

The 275.33 after the graphics card is the driver-version.  With the move to DirectX there's no need to worry about certified drivers - just use the latest available from Nvidia.



Sam M.
Inventor and Showcase monkey

Please mark this response as "Accept as Solution" if it answers your question...
If you have found any post to be helpful, even if it's not a direct solution, then please provide that author kudos - spread that love 😄

Message 26 of 44
WORKSTATIONresearch
in reply to: sam_m

Hi Sam,

 

Thanks for the reply.  My power supply is 610 watts.  My graphics card is a PNY nVidia Quadro FX 4000.  The specs say it draws 75 watts.  When I contacted PNY support they said the PS was sufficient.  There are no other big power draws, other than the processor.  The card requires 2 power cables to be attached, which they are.  I checked the PS with a testor and it checks OK.  The card seems to perform OK, but I think the message could be a false positive.  When I build the new workstation it will not be with a PNY graphics card, or a PC POWER & COOLING power supply (part of the OCZ Technology Group).  But I will use EVGA from this point forward as it seems they have a good reputation among users here.

 

My previous post was, among other things, a link to a GeForce website that provided all the necessary compatible components to build a high end workstation.  EVGA has a water cooled add on to their GeForce 590 graphics card.  It runs at 104 degrees Fahrenheit (40 degrees Celsius).  If you have any thoughts on water cooling they will be much appreciated.  I haven't looked into the cost of what must be addes on to circulate the coolant, but I suspect it may be more than I originally thought.  Friends have a salt water fish tank and a unit that keeps the water temperature within a certain range.  I suspect that is what might be needed if water cooling is used on a workstation.  This particular card draws 365 watts, which is a lot of heat to dissipate.

Message 27 of 44

Boy, I wish I would have seen this thread when I built our new workstations.

 

I built 4 machines with Quadro 6000's, one machine with a Quadro 5000, and another with a Quadro 2000.

 

They worked great in IV2010, but as soon as we installed IV2012, we saw a huge drop in framerate when we run in our preferred shaded with edges mode. We have to turn off edges to get a decent framerate.

Quite disappointing considering how much $$ we spent on all these Quadro cards.

 

Can anyone link an Inventor benchmark of a Quadro 6000 vs. a GTX 580?

 

I have used gaming cards for Inventor in the past, and had many 2D & 3D issues, and have basically stuck with Quadro
ever since, but maybe the move to DX and away from OGL has changed all of that.

 

Basically, I am disappointed with IV2012 performance in these very expensive Quadro 6000 cards.

 

I really need to figure out a solution to this piss-poor framerate of IV2012 in shaded with edges/wireframe modes.  I have a bunch of engineers complianing.

Message 28 of 44

You probably need to have all concerned address their complaints to Autodesk.  I believe the current state of the economy is causing companies to cut corners.  One way of doing that is a cutback in validation of hardware drivers to work with the software, which to my understanding is quite expensive.  Autodesk has been linked to Quadro graphics cards for some time and works with the graphics card manufacturers to see to it that they get the best performance out of the graphics cards via specialized drivers.  Apparently that is where the corner-cutting is taking place.  So Autodesk, given the current environment, needs to keep their customers’ best interests in mind and drop support for Quadro cards or develop good drivers for them.

Message 29 of 44

Quadro cards suck. they are way Over Priced and you can get SLI GTX 260's to out perform a quadro and its cheaper! Called a soft mod guys...

Message 30 of 44

I fully agree that Autodesk has not seen to address the overall opinion that Quadro cards have fallen out of favor with users for reasons of cost and performance.  Most seem to prefer "gaming" cards with nVidia graphics engines.

 

I'm considering eVGA cards of the most recent release.  They are mentioned throughout these forums as being preferred for performance and quality reasons.  One thing that stands out is that eVGA puts a lifetime guarantee on what they manufacture.  From my experience graphics cards have seemed to be the first components to fail for heat related reasons, so any manufacturer that can stand behind their product with a lifetime warrantee signifies that they are confident that it will be reliable for most users.  These are costly components, no matter who manufactures them for Autodesk Inventor usage, especially on large projects.   Replacement is time consuming, especially in my experience with some manufacturers who want to discourage replacement by delay tactics in contacting Tech Support.

 

I started building workstations after a bad experience with one of Micron's workstations (no longer in business), and found out later many others were having the same problems getting failed components replaced.  In my case, right from the get-go, this company showed itself to be dishonest.  I had ordered extra memory, and it came to me without the added memory, even though it was part of the bill.  I had to order the extra memory and then refuse to pay for it in order to keep from being cheated by employees that obviously knew what had been delivered, and what had been billed.

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPC_Corporation

Message 31 of 44
2grumpy
in reply to: jnielson65

Hi,

you have mention SLI - according to Autodesk advice - from few months back - Inventor does not benefit from SLI. other system to bust of graphic performance CUDA - has been developed by Nvidia. Quadro and GTX cards are CUDA compatible can benefit graphics processing.

would be worthy if somebody from Autodesk could comment on using CUDA and give some advice how to build good performing workstation not necessary using expensive Quadro or Tesla graphics card.

u have mention SLI - according to Autodesk advice - from few months back - Inventor does not

Message 32 of 44
sam_m
in reply to: 2grumpy

Dunno what that guy was on about but SLI is not supported (as of R2012, never know what might happen in the future).  It may take advantage of the shared video memory across the 2 cards but only uses 1 gpu.  High-end graphics cards like the GTX590 with 2 gpus on 1 card will only work at their full speed if Windows only "sees" 1 graphics card in Device Manager - if it's listed as 2 display adaptors then Inventor will only use 1 of them.

 

Cuda - I beleive that at the moment the only Autodesk products with support are Moldflow and Ansys.

 

As has been said a million and 1 times - if you're suffering poor performance then check ALL drivers are up to date.  The majority of users only consider the graphics card driver but you need to keep everything else up to date too (motherboard/chipset, soundcard, etc.). 



Sam M.
Inventor and Showcase monkey

Please mark this response as "Accept as Solution" if it answers your question...
If you have found any post to be helpful, even if it's not a direct solution, then please provide that author kudos - spread that love 😄

Message 33 of 44
2grumpy
in reply to: sam_m

as i understand CUDA parallel computing uses motherboard / graphic card facility and not a software. below is what i have found on Asus 'P6T7 WS SuperComputer' MB:

  

CUDA parallel computing power supported

The motherboard will achieve outstanding and dependable performance in the role of a Personal Supercomputer when working in tangent with discrete CUDA technology—providing unprecedented return on investment. Users can count on up to 4 CUDA cards(One of them should be Quadro graphic card) that are plugged into P6T7 WS SuperComputer for intensive parallel computing on tons of data, which delivers nearly 4 teraflops of performance. It is the best choice to work as a personal supercomputer on your desk instead of a computer cluster in a room

Message 34 of 44
sam_m
in reply to: 2grumpy

CUDA is Nvidia technology allowing the gpu(s) to be used for highly mathematical calculations, originating from Physx (physics system for games which required special Physx cards) whom they purchased a few years ago.

And yes, the software needs to be programmed to take advantage of it... It's a pretty similar issue with multi-processor support - good for parallel calculations but questionable how it would work with a linear model/function tree (each command alters the model created by the previous one, so can't calculate them together but it has be done one at a time).

Dx11 incorporates some gpu-based calculations, so it will be interesting whether that allows a gpu to piggyback a processor, but again any software will been to be programmed to take advantage of it.



Sam M.
Inventor and Showcase monkey

Please mark this response as "Accept as Solution" if it answers your question...
If you have found any post to be helpful, even if it's not a direct solution, then please provide that author kudos - spread that love 😄

Message 35 of 44
2grumpy
in reply to: sam_m

How annoying is absence of Autodesk programmers in explaining and helping with this issues. You can not 'wake them up' even by direct invitation. All they do is sending emails and asking to update status of issues raised for support request, by the way - issues never solved.

Message 36 of 44
bjlogsdon
in reply to: 2grumpy

I am trying to upgrade a workstation that currently uses Inventor 2010 and is running crazy slow in loading multi-part assemblies and the frame rates are terrible.  I've been reading the discussions on graphics cards and whether gaming cards would be better suited for my purposes.  My current system setup is as follows:

 

-Intel Pentium 4 CPU 3.60 GHz  3.6 GHz

2.00 GB of RAM

-Nvidia Quadro FX 3400/4400 GPU (which I realized is very outdated)

 

I've looked at various cost/efficiency ratios for various cards and am thinking of replacing the Quadro with a GTX 770.  Would that card be better than the Quadro FX 3800 and would increasing the RAM to 12 GB help with Inventor's processing speed?  I'm really new at this so any feedback would be great.

Message 37 of 44

I’ve been struggling with upgrade issues and have come to the conclusion that the only solution is a completely new system (hardware & software).  I attempted to rebuild after a catastrophic failure only to have my workstation catch fire.  I had found new components and decided to try and extend the longevity of my current workstation by improving the heat removal from the processor.  Everything checked out on a workbench.  But when I moved it to the office, connected all the cabling and started it up smoke poured out of the back.  I had an old APC UPS 650 Pro (1997) and had not delayed allowing it to cycle to the ready state before pressing the on button of the workstation.  It seems that caused the UPS to allow a spike to enter and caused the resulting catastrophic failure.

 

I took advantage of the APC warrantee by providing the cost of all new components added.  They were excellent in compensating me for the loss.  I got $1800 back.  I’ll be using that to partially offset the cost of a new workstation which will comprise eVGA parts and a top of the line Intel processor.

 

A must when protecting your system is a good UPS with a battery.  APC also provided a replacement UPS as part of their warranty, but it was refurbished stock.  In the meantime I bought a current APC UPS and an inexpensive ASUS desktop for communication purposes.

 

For your purposes I would suggest not attempting to stick with your old workstation with upgrades.  It’s not worth it.  eVGA has excellent warranty policies, some with lifetime warrantees on top of the line graphics cards.  Of course warrantees for electronic components have some questionable aspects as obsolescence becomes a factor.

 

If you build or buy a completely new workstation (that complies with Autodesk requirements for Inventor) matching it with current software is going to pay for itself in time savings.  When I was working for others, it was the most difficult task to get managers to understand that they couldn’t get the throughput required by driving their designers harder.  There simply is nothing the user can do if their hardware/software is sitting there churning away because it is obsolete.  But most of us that have been in that position know what floats to the top in many company hierarchical structures.  In a tough economy, like most companies are now experiencing, that makes the task even more difficult.

 

What I can’t understand is why the requirements for CAD hardware has to be so expensive when looking at the capabilities of things like cell phones.  I believe those providing the hardware and software are not looking hard enough at affordability issues that would remove much of the economic difficulties of upgrades by users.  Lowering costs would increase volume, possibly increasing profit margins as more gravitate to current CAD technology.

Message 38 of 44
BarryZA
in reply to: bjlogsdon

Here's a great link showing how GT cards are better for Inventor than Quadro

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-7.html

Message 39 of 44

Isn'**** strange how you PSU converts AC to DC, and your UPS converts DC to AC, talk about the long way round.

Message 40 of 44

Thanks for the link.  I'll be considering the Radeon line.

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Autodesk Design & Make Report