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Valued Mentor
Martin_Goodland
Posts: 302
Registered: ‎07-15-2005
Message 21 of 48 (746 Views)

Re: Large Assembly recommendations for Workstations?

07-20-2012 11:03 AM in reply to: warrenandy

If I were to build a machine to replace the one in my signature this would probably be it :

 

Intel i7 3960x CPU (3.3 GHz Intel boost 3.9GHz when using one core) maybe water cool and overclock it.

Asus P9X79 Motherboard

Upto 64 GB of 1800MHz RAM

Gainward 4GB GeForce GTX680 (could go for a 4GB GTX 690 but then each core only gets 2GB)

SATA3 SSD Hard drive (at least 256GB so there is space for all the software that comes with PDS these days)

 

Chose the 6 core i7 over the slightly faster 4 core i7 chips as most of my arrangement idw drawings have at least 6 views on them so all 6 cores are used. If my drawing files only had one view per idw I would go for the faster 4 core version of the i7 as the extra cores will not get used.

 

Regards

 

Martin

 

 

 

 

 


PDSU 2014 SP1.3
Windows 7 64bit SP1, Office 2007 Pro
Intel i7 980x, 24 Gb DDR3 RAM
Geforce 580GTX Graphics (Diver 327.23)
256GB SSD OS, 80GB SSD working folder
Space Pilot
Valued Mentor
stevec781
Posts: 680
Registered: ‎05-29-2009
Message 22 of 48 (729 Views)

Re: Large Assembly recommendations for Workstations?

07-21-2012 08:22 AM in reply to: Martin_Goodland

I just ordered a Dell laptop for use when travelling.  Speaking to their reps (and looking at the specs they suggested to you) its clear they dont understand how Inventor works.  As soon as they hear CAD they default to workstation.  They dont know that Inventor doesnt need an expensive card.  They dont get it only uses single core most of the time.  And that's ok, they shouldnt be expected to know everything.

 

So just tell them you need

1. The fastest cpu they have - number of cores doesnt matter. (3.1GHz is way too slow fo your needs)

2. The best gaming card they have

3. The fastest Ram they have (amount up to you)

4. SSD for data.  I use a small SSD for data only and a large hybrid drive for OS, swap, and programs.  (Put your swap file in a dedicated partition)

 

Valued Mentor
Rich.O.3d
Posts: 519
Registered: ‎08-19-2008
Message 23 of 48 (711 Views)

Re: Large Assembly recommendations for Workstations?

07-22-2012 05:23 PM in reply to: stevec781

one more time

 

 

SSD is faster for OS and Software

SATA HDD is faster for Data retrieval

 

you want

1x SSD (doesnt need to be too big as only run your OS and software on it)

+

2x 10000rpm HDD's (stripped if your running vault as redundancy is not an issue)

or if you need redundancy at your pc then 4x 10000rpm drives in raid10 (if tight then 3x in raid5 might suffice)

CAD Management 101:
You can do it your own way,
If its done just how I say!
[Metallica:And Justice For All:1988]
Valued Mentor
stevec781
Posts: 680
Registered: ‎05-29-2009
Message 24 of 48 (706 Views)

Re: Large Assembly recommendations for Workstations?

07-22-2012 08:49 PM in reply to: Rich.O.3d

richos69 wrote:

 

SSD is faster for OS and Software

SATA HDD is faster for Data retrieval

 


Can you elaborate on how that is faster.  My two slowest areas were file open & save, and rebuilds.

 

My thoughts are that I am always opening and saving data files and I used to wait a long time.  So I put my data on the ssd which has the best latency and bandwidth performance, and now my files open and save a lot faster.  Part rebuilds are cpu based so HD shouldnt make any difference to rebuild times.

 

I cant see how putting the data on the slowest drive will be better considering how often we retrieve and save data files.  Once the OS and software has loaded I imagine it doesnt use the HD much as its mostly loaded into RAM.  Having said that my OS and software is on a hybrid disk so maybe that helps overall performance.

 

*Expert Elite*
blair
Posts: 3,934
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 25 of 48 (701 Views)

Re: Large Assembly recommendations for Workstations?

07-23-2012 08:38 AM in reply to: Martin_Goodland

I have a couple of machines that are running SSD drives in RAID0. The first is using four SATAII SSD drives giving a read transfer rate of 920Mb while my home machine is running two SATAIII drives in RAID0 with an Adaptec controller giving a read transfer rate of 1.1Gb.

 

I have a new Alienware laptop with 2 SATAIII hybrid drives in RAID0 and it is a boat anchor compared to the SSD drives. 

 

The way data is apparently stored on the hard-drives, SSD drives don't handle data bases as well as conventional disc/platter type drives. There is a great video on Youtube (search for 24 SSD drives) it will give you an idea of how fast you can load data/programs.

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IV2015 up1 PDSU / Sim Mech 2015 /
Win7-64
EVGA X79 - Classified, iCore7 3930k 32Gb Quad-Channel
950Gb (2 x 500Gb Sata III SSD RAID0 Adaptec 6805E Controller)
Nvidia GTX-690 Classified - 335.23
SpacePilot Pro 3.17.7, 6.17., 4.11
Distinguished Contributor
cadman777
Posts: 804
Registered: ‎06-30-2005
Message 26 of 48 (557 Views)

Re: Large Assembly recommendations for Workstations?

02-04-2013 02:06 PM in reply to: Martin_Goodland

After reading this entire thread, I still didn't find what I want to know.


Will someone please tell me the following about IV2010-2013, as used for modeling and drawing creation (I do NOT do any FEA, rendering, animation):

 

1. How does IV use hardware? In other words, what parts of the program use what pieces of hardware, when, and how much?

 

2. I read that SSD's are good for finding data, but they suck for data swapping (like when IV reads/writes to the disk while editing models and drgs). Is this true? If so, how's the best way to handle all the functions of IV in my kind of modeling/detailing?

 

3. What hardware combinations are best for reliability and working together? I have built systems before, and found that if I don't know what pieces of hardware work well together, then the system will be a boat anchor. Also, some brands of hardware are better than others, such as memory. But the market is so volatile, and with businesses buying-out others and cheapening up components (like Dell does now!), there's no telling what hardware is good these days.

 

4. My main concerns are these:

  a. cpu/mbd bandwidth & speed

  b. RAM/mbd bandwidth, speed & reliability

  c. drive controller/mbd bandwidth & speed

  d. video card/mbd bandwidth & speed

  e. chipset efficiency, stability and reliability

  f. drivers: reliability and stability

  g. mbd: durability (due to the heat involved) and versatility

  h. hdd v. ssd speed, through the full spectrum of hardware and software use

  i. power supply quality and reliability

  j. quiet fans on the box

 

I found this to be true every time w/IV:

 

1. My dual quad-core 3.1's max out ONLY ONE processor, and friezes the screen, while all the other 7 processors sit idle. Okay, so let's hire and pay 8 employees, and make only one of them do all the work, while the rest go on coffee break. So, unless IV has changed how it handles processes, the way I see it, multi-core processors are a WASTE OF TIME AND $$$.

 

2. IV uses the hdd extensively, regardless of the qty of RAM (IV2010 & XP-64). Disks are a serious bottleneck.

 

3. Nobody talks about other processes that IV does behind the scenes (no Vault installed, and no connection to any network). I want to know ALL of them , and what resources they use, and how to optimize the hardware/hardware, software/hardware relationship.

 

4. Any time I have a model with over 300 parts, the idw file STALLS miserably, even if I relegate one file per drg sheet. I have had some files with over 2000 parts, and edits took forever.

 

I'd appreciate anybody with experience filling me in on the data I want to know. A well-informed opinion would be appreciated too.

... Chris
IV 2010 Suite
Digital Storm PC:
EVGA & Intel components
Win 7 Pro 64 bit
*Expert Elite*
blair
Posts: 3,934
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 27 of 48 (545 Views)

Re: Large Assembly recommendations for Workstations?

02-04-2013 02:25 PM in reply to: warrenandy

I'm just 1/2 way through a build for a new machine, i7 - 3930 on a EVGA X79 Classified MOB, with 32Gb or ram, EVGA GTX-690 card, dual Intel SSD 500gb drives in RAID0 on a Adaptec 6805 controler. Spare 2Tb hd for local back-up (still do full network backup) EVGA 750w power supply, a couple of sata DVD units a HPZR30w monitor and some Edifer Spinnaker E30 speakers for 1/2 price of your Dell system all in a Lian Li PC-V2120 all alumimun case. IncludingWin7 Ultimate and Office 2010.

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IV2015 up1 PDSU / Sim Mech 2015 /
Win7-64
EVGA X79 - Classified, iCore7 3930k 32Gb Quad-Channel
950Gb (2 x 500Gb Sata III SSD RAID0 Adaptec 6805E Controller)
Nvidia GTX-690 Classified - 335.23
SpacePilot Pro 3.17.7, 6.17., 4.11
Distinguished Contributor
cadman777
Posts: 804
Registered: ‎06-30-2005
Message 28 of 48 (548 Views)

Re: Large Assembly recommendations for Workstations?

02-04-2013 02:33 PM in reply to: Martin_Goodland

I'm curious what kind of work you do on your machine, and what percentages of time you spend on what operations.

Please let me know how you like it after using it for some time (details are nice).

Do you get discounts on the hardware?

If so, where do you get it?

Does the supplier guarantee the individual parts work well together so you don't "pull your hair out" troubleshooting it all the time?

... Chris
IV 2010 Suite
Digital Storm PC:
EVGA & Intel components
Win 7 Pro 64 bit
Valued Mentor
Martin_Goodland
Posts: 302
Registered: ‎07-15-2005
Message 29 of 48 (525 Views)

Re: Large Assembly recommendations for Workstations?

02-04-2013 04:58 PM in reply to: cadman777

Hi Chris

 

I mainly work on Architectural metalwork contracts used in commercial construction. This includes staircases, mesh facades, decorative cladding & wayfinding units. I spend all my time in the modeling and drawing enviroment, no FEA no renders etc. my models are not always big but do have a fair bit of complex geometry, memory usage is in the region of 4 - 6 GB. 

 

I have been using the machine for a couple of years now and it still performs well. I have an ongoing project that was started in Inventor 2009 and is modified and reused every few years. This job only has a few hundered parts but on my old machine (Vista 64, 4GB RAM and mechanical drive) updaing the drawings would take hours because the machine would run out of memory and start to page.

 

I work for myself so built my own machines, the parts are just covered by standard manufactures waranties but 2 years in and the machine is still trouble free.

 

I have also gone back into full time employment in addition to contracting. For my day job I am using a new intel machine with 16GB RAM and SSD drives. This machine has a Quadro 2000 graphics card in it. The Quadro feels lacking (under performing) compaired to the Geforce GTX580 in my own machine.

 

 Regards

 

Martin

 

 


PDSU 2014 SP1.3
Windows 7 64bit SP1, Office 2007 Pro
Intel i7 980x, 24 Gb DDR3 RAM
Geforce 580GTX Graphics (Diver 327.23)
256GB SSD OS, 80GB SSD working folder
Space Pilot
*Expert Elite*
blair
Posts: 3,934
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 30 of 48 (519 Views)

Re: Large Assembly recommendations for Workstations?

02-04-2013 07:34 PM in reply to: Martin_Goodland

I do alot of reasonable sized assemblies, lots of rending 3000 x 2000 and a lot of FEA work in the commercial equipment/transportation field. I used to assembly my machines and then did the Dell Precision for a while and went back to assembling my own machines again. With AD's move to D3D in Inventor back with release 11 it's allowed people to move away from OpenGL cards "Quadro" (very pricey) to good gaming cards for considerably less money. My time is probably spent 40% modeling/drawing 40% FEA/Sim and 20% Rendering.BT635D.jpg

Did you find this reply helpful ? If so please use the Accept as Solution or Kudos button below.

IV2015 up1 PDSU / Sim Mech 2015 /
Win7-64
EVGA X79 - Classified, iCore7 3930k 32Gb Quad-Channel
950Gb (2 x 500Gb Sata III SSD RAID0 Adaptec 6805E Controller)
Nvidia GTX-690 Classified - 335.23
SpacePilot Pro 3.17.7, 6.17., 4.11

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