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Fractional length for std Content Center parts

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Message 1 of 56
Winks87
5204 Views, 55 Replies

Fractional length for std Content Center parts

Has anyone figured this out?  This would be for standard, not custom cc parts.  I read that you can save a cc part file as a template with the G_L parameter set as fractions, and then use it to replace the family template in cc, but that doesn't work (or I'm doing it wrong).  It worked once, then stopped?  I know there has to be a way of doing this.

I tried exporting values from cc as custom iProps, then tried to populate description iProp with these, but that doesn't work.  The description iProp has to come directly from cc table I think.

Example: I want L's to have description: L2 x 2 x 3/16 x 2'-0 1/2"

 

Any ideas?

Inv 2013, Vault 2013 basic, Vaulted CC, I have admin rights.

James Winkler
55 REPLIES 55
Message 21 of 56
LT.Rusty
in reply to: jw3805

Got all your service packs and updates installed?

Can you set fractions & precision on other custom parameters? Does it work anywhere else?

Rusty

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Message 22 of 56
jw3805
in reply to: LT.Rusty

That was it, just did the most recent service pack and updates and now i have fractional precisions.  Thanks Rusty!

Message 23 of 56
LT.Rusty
in reply to: jw3805

Glad it worked out for you!

Rusty

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Message 24 of 56
jyager
in reply to: LT.Rusty

For the life of me I can't get this to work.

 

I have followed the steps. tried on tube steel AND angle just to make sure I wasn't dealing with some weird anomalie. I get as far as the update family template with everything matching the images. The update says success, but it doesn't actually change any of the numeric formats.

 

...why are angle thicknesses shown as fractional when their leg lengths are shown as decimal anyway...then tube thicknesses are shown as decimal. A little consistency would be nice.

 

There should be an option right in the family table editor to change the format anyway...this whole convaluded process is kind of bizarre.

Jason Yager
Inventor Professional 2023.2
Windows 10 Pro 21H2
Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900X CPU @ 3.70GHz
32GB RAM
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Message 25 of 56
LT.Rusty
in reply to: jyager


@jyager wrote:

For the life of me I can't get this to work.

 

I have followed the steps. tried on tube steel AND angle just to make sure I wasn't dealing with some weird anomalie. I get as far as the update family template with everything matching the images. The update says success, but it doesn't actually change any of the numeric formats.

 

...why are angle thicknesses shown as fractional when their leg lengths are shown as decimal anyway...then tube thicknesses are shown as decimal. A little consistency would be nice.

 

There should be an option right in the family table editor to change the format anyway...this whole convaluded process is kind of bizarre.


 

 

Open one of your edited CC parts, save it out as custom, and post it here.  I've got an idea of what's going on, but I'd like to see what you've done before I go into it.

 

But, yeah - I agree with you, this process is a little bizarre to work through.

Rusty

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Message 26 of 56
jyager
in reply to: LT.Rusty

Thanks!, Good luck.

Jason Yager
Inventor Professional 2023.2
Windows 10 Pro 21H2
Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900X CPU @ 3.70GHz
32GB RAM
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Message 27 of 56
jyager
in reply to: jyager

Also, something else I noticed...

 

I have for instance A36 angle, with custom BOM properties that I'd also like a SS A276 version of with the same custom BOM properties, I use the material guide and it creates a new independant library. I go in and edit my custom columns (material spec and coating)...everything is fine. I place the new item in a model and it still shows the old A36 material and coating in a BOM & parts list (even though it is updated in the CC table).

 

BUT, if I do a save a copy as, then edit the material as well as my custom columns for material spec and coating spec...it does update the custom columns in a BOM & parts list.

Jason Yager
Inventor Professional 2023.2
Windows 10 Pro 21H2
Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900X CPU @ 3.70GHz
32GB RAM
AMD Radeon Pro WX 3200 Series
3D Connexion SpaceMouse Pro
Message 28 of 56
jyager
in reply to: jyager

and yet another...

 

I made a quick frame generated frame (I also randomly plunked a couple members in not associated with the frame) and for some reason the length in the description which is linked to the {B_L} expression shows up for 12" or 0.001" (depending on the image) on everything???

 

If you look at the base qty value or even the part name length value it shows the correct lengths of the two different tubes, neither of which is actually 12". And yes the value in the part number expression is {B_L} also.

 

I just checked using the bolted connection generator....it shows correct lengths of bolts (which I also customized) in my custom BOM column. So it has to be something in Frame generator.

 

This is pretty cumbersome.

Jason Yager
Inventor Professional 2023.2
Windows 10 Pro 21H2
Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900X CPU @ 3.70GHz
32GB RAM
AMD Radeon Pro WX 3200 Series
3D Connexion SpaceMouse Pro
Message 29 of 56
LT.Rusty
in reply to: jyager

Okay, so your problem (one problem, at least) is that you've got the expression for ITEM-DESCRIPTION set up as the type of expression that is solved by the table, so it's creating the expression in your custom iproperty as text.  You need to instead set it up as the sort of expression that is solved by the iproperty field instead, calling on the custom iproperties that you exported from your part parameters as fractions.  

 

Go back through my original post and look at the way that I entered the expression into the table for (in my case) the DESCRIPTION field.  (I used Project.Description in the same way that you're using Custom.ITEM-DESCRIPTION.)  Set it up that way instead of the way that you have it, and see if that fixes your issues.

 

As for your issue with Frame Generator, yes - FG handles things a little differently than Bolted Connections do, and differently still from the way that things work if you just insert directly from content center.  I THINK, though, that if you change the base BOM quantity in your part template (MANAGE --> DOCUMENT SETTINGS --> BILL OF MATERIALS --> BASE QUANTITY) from G_L to EACH, then you'll see things change a little.  Maybe.  There might have been another trick that I did in there to get that part to change.  I can't recall for positive, though.

Rusty

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Message 30 of 56
LT.Rusty
in reply to: LT.Rusty

Okay, I already posted this in your other thread, but since it's an issue here as well, I'll duplicate it:

 

Your problem with the part numbers from Frame Generator is B_L.  You should be setting up your parameters to call on G_L for the length, not B_L.  B_L is only relevant if you're using PLACE FROM CONTENT CENTER.  G_L will match B_L if you PLACE FROM CONTENT CENTER, but if you use Frame Generator instead, G_L shows the length of the piece as modified by FG.

 

Took me a while to remember about that ...

Rusty

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Message 31 of 56
jyager
in reply to: LT.Rusty

This and the other thread fixed both issues, thanks. My head was spinning from trying to customize things the past two days. I love this forum.

Jason Yager
Inventor Professional 2023.2
Windows 10 Pro 21H2
Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900X CPU @ 3.70GHz
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Message 32 of 56
cadman777
in reply to: LT.Rusty

Rusty,

 

Thanx for your work-flow.

Worked just like you say.

After spending this entire week trying to understand how to make iParts for CC & FG, I found your post late yesterday.

So, I "paid my dues" and got a nice work-flow out of it.

However, I still have other issues I was wondering about, and maybe you had any "intel" on??

 

Doesn't look like Johnson Shuie at AD has NO intention for addressing any of this (for some unknown reason), although he should be jumping on this like bees on honey. Like you and other hard working professionals in this field, I want to automate all the metadata using program customizations (I don't program in VB or C, so it has to be done w/out-of-the-box functionality). However, ever after using your work-flow, I need MORE metadata automation. Thing is, when I get to the CC, FG and BOM/Parts List (the most important parts of the program!), it's all surrounded by mystery, frustration, and wasted time (and $), so, I'm finding it nearly impossible to figure out what's happening w/this program and how to fix it. Maybe you can be of assistance?

 

Here's what I'm trying to accomplish:

 

Like you, I want the Parts List to show HxWxT - L, and so forth for all structural members, and for all other CC and non-CC iParts.

However, due to long-standing standards for Parts List and Structural Drafting, I have to somehow adapt all this CC Editor/Family Table confusion to my standards ... which I can slightly adjust if need be. So .....

 

The standard requires the need to assign 1 MARK NO to each PIECE/part.

If the PIECES are identical, then they have the same MK NO.

This is long-standing structural and fabrication practice, and isn't going to change, EVER.

It has to do w/the process from estimation to design to fabrication to construction to accounting/billing.

 

So, I need to pick the right iProp for the MARK NO.

Currently I'm using "Stock Number".

I've been thinking of changing it to "Part Number", due to the way the "Part Number" functions (i.e., identical "Part Numbers" get grouped in the Parts List). Back in R8, I discontinued using IV's "Item" for the MK NO, b/c it kept changing the MK NO on already issued drg sets on a project that was a WIP. The flack I took for inadvertently changing the MK NO's on later revs of already issued shop drgs was enough to make me INSTANTLY quit using IV's auto-assignment of "Item" numbers. I have not looked into whether or not this has changed to make the "Item" useful for my work-flow/standards. I doubt it!

 

ALL my work is custom work, so I don't need factory part numbers or stock numbers, as such, to identify millions of parts in a production process.

 

Next, I need to pick the right iProp for the DESCRIPTION in the Parts List.

Currently it's UNCONFIRMED where that data comes from (i.e., which source/s for which part/s ?), so I usually MANUALLY fix each and every part's "Description" in the BOM before releasing drgs for review/quotation/fabrication. I'm done with wasting time and energy on that, so want to automate it for ALL CC/FG parts.

 

Then, I need to pick the right iProp for the "NAME" in the Parts List.

Every "Parts List" has at least these 4

:

MK - QTY - NAME - DESCRIPTION

 

MK = Balloon Number on drg

QTY = total quantity of parts shown in the Parts List at that level of the drg heirarchy (i.e., assembly>sub-assembly>sub-sub-assembly, etc.)

NAME = Some sort of ID CATEGORY or Name (like what the shop guys call it, or the field guys use to label it)

DESCRIPTON = Technical info identifying the dimensional info, or vendor/mfgr numbers, or sizing/power/etc. of the part/assy.

 

Thus far, these are the associations I have btw the Parts List and the iProps:

 

MK = STOCK NUMBER

QTY = ITEM QTY

NAME = PART NUMBER

DESCRIPTON = DESCRIPTION

 

Thus far, I do not have enough information to make an informed decision on what is the best iProp suited to my needs.

I do not know where to find the functional info for all these iProps and their associated CC/FG Column Expressions to make that decision.

I've been trying to piece this together for the past week, but can't find enough info on both the web and in this forum.

I have found a good web site that has tech people on it who would most likely know the answers, but I can't find any way to contact them.

 

In addition, I figured-out that the CC>Family Properties>Family Description feeds metadata into the DESCRIPTION iProp (but I'm not sure that's the only source for this iProp). Since that's my Parts List DESCRIPTION, I attempted to edit that Family Properties field w/the typical iProp equation, but found that to be only semi-effective, b/c some of the iProperties didn't work in the BOM (e.g., MAS column in the Family Table vs. MAS custom iProp in the part template). They showed up blank, b/c I couldn't connect the part template MAS w/the Family Table MAS.

 

So, I have to abandon using the CC>Family Properties>Family Description for my Parts List DESCRIPTION iProp, UNLESS I change the DESCRIPTION iProp from Parts List "Description" to Parts List "Name"? That means, I need to feed another Family Table Column Expression into the STOCK NUMBER iProp, and use STOCK NUMBER for the Parts List "Description" column?? I also tried this: I created a custom Family Table Column named DESCRIPTION, and created an iProp Expression that would reflect my desire for the DESCRIPTION iProp, and it worked properly in the Parts List "Description" column. The only thing wrong w/that is this CASCADING EFFECT:

 

Now I need to change the data source for STOCK NUMBER to the CC>Family Properties>Family Description, so it can be the data source for my Parts List NAME column (b/c the kind of structural shape is the "Name" it should have - NOT the "Description" is should have. The "Description" is the DIMENSIONAL INFORMATION for that structural shape). Anyways, what is the Expressoin for the CC>Family Properties>Family Description data field? Beats me! Autodesk: WHERE IS THE WHITE PAPER THAT EXPLAINS ALL THIS?

 

This is the kind of thing I'm running into w/this CC customization, AND MORE.

Adding the FG anomalies, and I'm beginning to feel like "One Flew Over the CooCoo's Nest"!

 

Any ideas where I can get that White Paper ... one for iParts/iAssemblies, the CC and the FG?

Or maybe you have some ideas on how I can make ALL MY PARTS SHOW UP THE SAME IN ALL MY PARTS LISTS (absent special programming)?

 

Thanx for entertaining my inquiry ....

 

... Chris
Win 7 Pro 64 bit + IV 2010 Suite
ASUS X79 Deluxe
Intel i7 3820 4.4 O/C
64 Gig ADATA RAM
Nvidia Quadro M5000 8 Gig
3d Connexion Space Navigator
Message 33 of 56
LT.Rusty
in reply to: cadman777

I'm a little pressed for time right this instant - have to get the PM checklist packages assembled for the next 2 weeks - so I'll go over your post more later, but ...

(a) I don't know of a white paper that will explain everything you're looking for. Hmm ... I betcha there's room for a book on customizing and managing content center in Inventor ...

(b) If you map a table column to the PROJECT.DESCRIPTION field, then you will no longer have that mapped from the family description field. That's just the default mapping, but you can always change that. In my own work, I've just created a new column in the tables which is mapped to PROJECT.DESCRIPTION, and filled that in with whatever I need. (My BOM's just show Item # (auto-assigned by Inventor), Quantity, Project.Stock Number and Project.Description.)

As for how to make all your parts show up the same in all your parts lists, give me some specific things to work from - parts that you want to look the same, I mean - and we'll see what we can figure out.


Rusty

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Message 34 of 56
cadman777
in reply to: LT.Rusty

Rusty,

Thanx for your speedy reply.

No probs, I can wait. I've waited this long!

Meanwhile, I'll try to setup things more streamlined like you do it.

Then we can discuss it if you get time.

Apprecite it ... and good luck meeting your timeline!

... Chris
Win 7 Pro 64 bit + IV 2010 Suite
ASUS X79 Deluxe
Intel i7 3820 4.4 O/C
64 Gig ADATA RAM
Nvidia Quadro M5000 8 Gig
3d Connexion Space Navigator
Message 35 of 56
cadman777
in reply to: LT.Rusty

Rusty,

 

Can you answer one quick question for me?

How do I get the iProp G_L into the Family Table>Expression?
It's not showing up when I click on the "..." to find the variable so I can double-click G_L into the Expression.

I want that to be in the File Name.


Would I have to re-author the entire iPart from scratch (except for the profile and variables)?

 

If so, do you know where I can find a White Paper showing what AD did for each of these iParts before the CC'd them?

 

Thanx ...

... Chris
Win 7 Pro 64 bit + IV 2010 Suite
ASUS X79 Deluxe
Intel i7 3820 4.4 O/C
64 Gig ADATA RAM
Nvidia Quadro M5000 8 Gig
3d Connexion Space Navigator
Message 36 of 56
LT.Rusty
in reply to: cadman777


@cadman777 wrote:

Rusty,

 

Can you answer one quick question for me?

How do I get the iProp G_L into the Family Table>Expression?
It's not showing up when I click on the >>> to double-click G_L into the Expression.

I want that to be in the Parts List "Description" of the steel shape.

The only thing available is B_L.

 

Thanx ...


 

 

Remember - you need to be using a type of expression that will be solved once it's in the iProperty field, not the type that will be solved in the table.  Look at the differences between the two in my first post, make sure you're using the right one.  You'll see that, among other things, one type uses < > to surround variables, the other uses { } .  It sounds like you're using the table type expression.  Basically, you need to enter your expression in a way that the table sees it as just straight text and drops it into your iProperty unmodified, but the iProperties will then interpret as an expression.  (So, for instance, if you typed "=EST WEIGHT: <LBS>" without the surrounding quotes, your iProperty would look for a parameter called LBS, and then insert the value shown after the text "EST WEIGHT:".)

 

That's how you'll get G_L in there - you just type it in, like so:  <G_L>

 

G_L doesn't live in the family table.  It's a value calculated at the part level.

Rusty

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Message 37 of 56
jyager
in reply to: LT.Rusty

Another odd one to add to the list...

 

I have a 150# gasket family and a 300# gasket family...they were both copy as'd and customized the same way...but for some reason the 150# would only show <Thickness> instead of the proper value (the 300# shows 1/16 or 1/8, whichever is applicable)...after fumbling around for a couple hours in noticed something is weird in my custom parameters.

 

It recognizes the table column, but not the template parameter...I even deleted and re-entered the column thinking maybe something was buggy.

Jason Yager
Inventor Professional 2023.2
Windows 10 Pro 21H2
Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900X CPU @ 3.70GHz
32GB RAM
AMD Radeon Pro WX 3200 Series
3D Connexion SpaceMouse Pro
Message 38 of 56
cadman777
in reply to: LT.Rusty

Thanx Rusty,

 

"G_L doesn't live in the family table".

That's what I thought.

 

I was wondering if you found some way to push it into the Family Table?

Not that I need G_L, but I want to have that option to try to get things where I want them.

My thought was it required re-creating the part Template from scratch.

But I don't want to spend time doing that for all parts.

 

Instead, I tried re-assigning various Family Table columns to iProps to get the desired result.

One change cascades into another problem!

For example: I tried using STOCK NUMBER as the Parts List DESCRIPTION, and the default Family Description as the Parts List NAME.

But that caused CC parts to register their length as ".001" when they're something else.

The setting in Document Settings is grayed-out as "each".

No clue what's wrong here!

 

This kind of BULL **** functionality is what I consider software DEFECTS.

This is not what I paid for when I bought this product.


I'm on 2010, and have refused to "upgrade" over the years due to these problems not being fixed in future versions.

You're on 2014, right? And do you still have these bull **** work-flows in your version of the program?

I'm guessing AD has no plans on spending time/resources to fix this FUNDAMENTAL FLAWS in their program, do you?

 

I waited many years to try to customize this progam, due to all this kind of WASTED TIME AND MONEY.

And here I am, same-ol-same-ol.

 

Anyways, thanx for your help ...

... Chris
Win 7 Pro 64 bit + IV 2010 Suite
ASUS X79 Deluxe
Intel i7 3820 4.4 O/C
64 Gig ADATA RAM
Nvidia Quadro M5000 8 Gig
3d Connexion Space Navigator
Message 39 of 56
LT.Rusty
in reply to: cadman777

G_L should not get pushed into the family table.  It's a value that's set by Frame Generator to account for modifications made by end treatments.  You don't want it to be set by the family table.  If you just place a structural shape by the use of PLACE FROM CONTENT CENTER then G_L will equal B_L.

 

Just set G_L to export to a custom iProperty, and then call on that iProperty in your expression.  If you are using the right type of expression, then when you place the part, the expression will be evaluated within the part and G_L will be inserted.

Rusty

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Message 40 of 56
jyager
in reply to: cadman777

I'm glad today is Friday.

 

Seems like everytime I get something to work in one place it takes a crap somewhere else. On a LR 90 deg elbow, I have the ND and the SN in {nd} brackets...because they're in the family table and not at the part level.

 

If I place the part using content center it comes in with the right values in the BOM, however if it's placed through tube and pipe the BOM shows ONLY the SN value and not the ND value, when they're both placed in the same {brackets}. I've also tried <ND> and that gets me zip.

Jason Yager
Inventor Professional 2023.2
Windows 10 Pro 21H2
Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900X CPU @ 3.70GHz
32GB RAM
AMD Radeon Pro WX 3200 Series
3D Connexion SpaceMouse Pro

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