Best Way to Copy Frame Generator Assembly

[SteveFrey]

Okay, so I'm slowly re-learning what I've forgotten in Inventor and realizing that if I was on subscription and had the latest versions all along I would be so much better off.  With that being said, I have created multiple assemblies using my favorite thing - the frame generator, and I want to copy the entire assembly and use it to represent another model for the next customer while still preserving the original assembly.  If I recall Vault has a way to do this by using Copy Design.  Since I am not using Vault is there another way to do this?  I appreciate all your help, assistance, comments, constructive criticism, etc., etc.

[jeanchile]

I do this all the time using the design assistant. It's incredibly cumbersome, and not intuitve, but it's all I am left with being that my company cannot use Vault. AD needs to update it badly but it works.

It's also not a bad idea to be familiar with the standard naming schemes and file structures of frame generator as well (Curtis has a good chapter on it in his Mastering IV book series).

[SteveFrey]

So do you RMB the assembly file or the folder?  Is it actually the Design Assistant or is it Pack & Go?  How do you actually do this?

[jeanchile]

I use the actual design assistant. I've had to learn it by trial and error as the documentation for this thing SUCKS, and like I said earlier it needs a major overhaul. I guess AD just assumes that everyone can use their Vault software and that's not the case.

My exact workflow is listed out below but there are a few things to note first:

1.) My frame generator files always use the default names and folder structure (per Paul Doubet's advice).

2.) I learned about the file structure and the parameters and components (from Curtis' Mastering IV Book).

3.) I spent some time with a practice assembly and design assistant to figure out how the thing worked.

4.) My frame generator models always follow a similar setup (with the skeleton geometry, etc.)

5.) I don't mind taking my time with this to make sure I have all the files and folder locations correct. It doesn't take that long once you've done this a bunch and I would rather spend the time to make sure I got everything the way I want it before I hit the "save" button, than to find out later I am accidentally reusing a file from the old location.

My workflow is this:

1.) I open the top most assembly of my required design in design assistant.

2.) I use the "find files" option at the bottom of the window to locate the drawing files.

3.) I make sure I have all the files I need listed in the two panes (upper and/or lower).

4.) I go through each file, line by line and select from the "action" column which files I want to copy, which I want to rename, and which files I want to replace (In most of my instances I end up copying everything but the other tools are handy once in a while and sometimes I want to reuse some of the existing files). You can use the shift select to get them all to "copy" quickly if you just need a copy of everything.

5.) After I have set the files to "copy" I use either the "subfolder" column or the "name" column to set the location, and new name (if needed), of the new files that are to be created. The "subfolder" method allows you to change multiple files easily to a new folder provided the subfolder path is in the same project file as the design you are copying. The "name" method can take more time because you have to do the files one at a time but you can copy the files outside the project file path and rename them at the same time. If you set the new folder up in one of your Windows "favorites" locations then it can be pretty quick to go through these.

Just remember to follow the same Frame Generator folder structure that is there by default (frame member files in a subfolder named "Frame", etc.).

I hope this helps. Good luck.

P.S. There is a copy design tool that you can unpack and install as well but I have had a terrible time using that tool on frame generator designs so I abandoned it. Others may have additional advice though.

[Curtis_Waguespack]

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd share this link for those of you who need to copy Frame Genertor Assemblies. I tested this just briefly, and it seemed to work.

Hierarchy Clone for Inventor

http://labs.autodesk.com/utilities/ADN_plugins/catalog/

This plugin can be used to copy and rename Inventor IAM/IDW/DWG file along with any files it references (including substitute parts and OLE references).

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

[SteveFrey]

Thanks!  I will try it and let you know how it works.  I am currently using the CopyDesign utility and it works okay but I do have some reserves about it.  Maybe this is better?

[ThomasSwanson]

Does anyone know what happened to this? Is it in Inventor now?

[Curtis_Waguespack]

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ThomasSwanson wrote:
Does anyone know what happened to this? Is it in Inventor now?

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Hi ThomasSwanson,

That labs tool just simply went away.

I think the current best way to copy a frame generator assembly would be to use the iLogic Design Copy tool. There is some info on it here: 

http://cadsetterout.com/inventor-tutorials/copy-an-autodesk-inventor-design/

Note that you can use that tool even if there is no iLogic involved.

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

[SteveFrey]

Thomas:

I'm still using the SDK CopyDesign tool.  It works really well with a few exceptions:  Any file not updated to the latest Inventor version (in my case 2015) won't copy.  Any assembly with unresolved files won't copy.  Any .IDW with a .BMP file in it like I have that is not properly linked to the drawing won't copy.  Basically any file that you are attempting to copy that has anything unresolved or has not updated, won't copy.  The bad thing is that Inventor doesn't tell you WHY it won't copy.  I went pretty deep into the CopyDesign tool a few times with someone from Autodesk using a third party software like visual basic (I forget) to troubleshoot it and I got a really good idea of how it works.  Essentially it opens every file tied to a .IDW and it does a SAVE COPY AS on each. 

I'm using Inventor 2015 Pro and the app is located in C:\Users\Public\Documents\Autodesk\Inventor 2015\SDK\UserTools\CopyDesign\Bin.  If it's not included with the software any longer then this is where I have it sitting.

If it's not there I think I can send you a copy of it.  Supposedly the best way to copy an existing assembly is with Vault.  Unfortunately I'm not using Vault so this is not an option for me.  The problem I have with the iLogic Design Copy tool is I only have one project file.  This means after I copy an assembly Inventor looks for all of the unresolved links which I in turn have to find, which is a pain, etc. 

This is a great article on copying assemblies from my friend across the pond: http://cadsetterout.com/inventor-tutorials/copy-an-autodesk-inventor-design/

Hopefully this helps.

Steve

[cbenner]

Late to the party as usual, but IMHO, the best way to copy a frame design is with Vault Copy Design.  If you don't have Vault.... what they said.  

[david.brandwood]

I've just got to this stage (the need to create a copy of a frame) and at the risk of sounding like an old Solidworks forced convert, Inventor seriously SUCKS in this department.  I know all the Inventor die-hards are going to crawl out of the woodwork and make little dolly's of me with pins in but seriously, having to either pull out hair I no longer can afford to pull and just fanny about or re-invent the wheel by redrawing a frame just defies belief. C'mon , if bloody Desault can manage it I'm damned sure someone the size of AutoDesk really ought to be be able to simplify it.

I REALLY HATE to say this, but honestly, Someone at AutoDesk should be weighing up the competition and frankly beating them instead of lagging behind and relying on us moaning loud enough before they change things. Solidworks has its issues (serious lack of stability to start with), like any software but they do have some cracking ideas, just a shame they don't implement the core very well. The problem at AutoDesk appears to be the other way, more stability but at the cost in innovation. There's no shame in seeing what your competition are doing and then beating them at it.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi David,

I appreciate the comments. But, I think you are over-generalizing the situation. Inventor is not perfect. Nor is Solidworks. We do have significant number of ex-Solidworks users using Inventor productively and liking it on a daily basis. Likewise, I would not be surprised that Solidworks has former Inventor users happily adopting to their new solution.

Personally I think it is true in certain workflows, Inventor lags behind Solidworks. But, it is also true that Solidworks lags behind Inventor in many workflows. If Inventor was an inferior product than Solidworks, it would not have stood up to the test of time. The market would have abandoned it. The growth of user base and the level of enthusiasm and engagement here proves otherwise.

I respect your opinion. Your criticism shows that we have a lot of work to do and we need to work harder. If you are interested in Inventor Beta program, please sign up https://bit.ly/InventorBeta. You will be able to test the latest in-development Inventor features and interact with project teams directly.

Many thanks!

[david.brandwood]

I agree neither is perfect, Solidworks being a loooong way from perfect, hence our companies decision to drop it and looking in the forums it's obvious there's a lot of us who bailed the Solidworks experience, however, I believe a good idea is a good idea, irrespective of who came up with it but I do feel there's a belief in certain circles that because someone else initiated the idea then 'we' couldn't possible use it. Just as well the the same wasn't felt by those looking at the invention of the wheel or those choosing an alternative would have a bumpy ride, literally.

I dare say incorporating some aspects could be technically difficult due to the coding of the software and compatibility issues in legacy aspects etc .  The biggest issue with Solidworks is it should actually be named Jellyworks as it's about as stable as a wet jelly. It appears Desault are so obsessed with the 'latest' idea who cares if it is actually works in the real world.

Floating around the forums there's definitely a section of the Inventor community are a little sick of us converts bleating about the functions available in Solidworks, sorry, but there's some bloody good ideas in their software and frankly to brutally honestly they blow away their Inventor counter parts, and anyone who has used both programs would know this. 

Generally I actually prefer Inventor and none of the above detracts from some of the excellent functions within it, lets be honest, we wouldn't have converted had there not been but anyone who has created frames in Solidworks and seen the flexibility in the way their multibody parts work or used the very powerful mating functions will look at Inventors equivalents and wonder if AutoDesk have even looked at the competition.

Surely if you wish to beat the competition you need to see their strengths and beat them at the own game as well as utilize your own strengths. As an analogy,  if someone was using a 4 litre turbocharged engine which was occasionally temperamental you wouldn't race against them in a pedal car that was solidly built in the hope they fell over and you could pinch the odd victory, you'd examine their engine and improve on what they'd created and factored in reliability, that way you'd be matched and more reliable, thus winning the race.

So do forgive, us ex-Solidworks users for trying to get such ideas incorporated into Inventor. We're actually trying to help believe it or not. If my posts have come across in anyway negatively or even offensive, it's certainly not my intention, just my writting style and I'll gladly make any apology. There are a lot of functions and workflows I prefer in Inventor, which is why we are here but don't try to put me down for mentioning the benefits occasionally from the darkside, they're good functions in an otherwise poorly written program which if AutoDesk cared to look at they could benefit from and improve everyone's lives.

[cbenner]

@david.brandwood

Ranting is fun, I do it myself, but....

If you would like some help with your problem, you should maybe tell us exactly what is not working?  What have you tried?  What errors are you getting? Etc...

There are many ways to copy a frame design, none of them perfect.  But, you CAN do it, and we will help you if we can.  But you have to let us know what the problem is besides just saying that it sucks.  I mean, we already know that!  LOL

J/K.. I pick on the Inventor guys all the time about enhancements (right @johnsonshiue?) But Inventor is still my bread and butter.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi David and Chris,

Many thanks for the feedback! Sometimes, when one looks way too much into the future, one tends to forget about the presence and the past. We all live in the presence and we should treasure every minute of it.

Frame Generator as a whole is a target rich area for improvement. It is where we should learn from our past and plan for immediate future. As you know well, I cannot guarantee anything. All I can promise is that your enthusiasm, feedback, and critique are taken seriously. They are the fuel propelling us move forward. I personally appreciate it deeply.

Thanks again!

[david.brandwood]

Thanks for the offer of help Chris but it's not that I need the help, it's just one of the niggles Inventor has that annoys me. It's always more difficult to accept something when you're used to working in a certain way and it's something I can say I don't usually suffer from. Most of the guys in here tend to bemoan Inventor after doing things in Solidworks and I'm the one who keeps saying just step back, forget Solidworks and it's just a different way of working, neither better or worse, just different.

There are however probably 3 areas I consider very weak in Inventor, at least compared to Solidworks, well two actually and one I'm just very disappointing about. Frames being one, compared to Solidworks, frame gen is rather restrictive (at least in the way we use it anyway), the second being mates, again, it's not just a 'different' way of working, it's greatly the lacking Solidworks equivalents and why it's broke into two primary categories I really can't get my head around, someone obviously figured there was logic to it but I'll be damned if I see it from any angle I look at it. My 'disappointment' was on the drawings side. I actually prefer the way Inventor works in this area over Solidworks though there's better features in each camp and in a perfect world they'd be incorporated, but having been an AutoCAD user for many many years I was gutted when I realised that nothing like the power and flexibility of AutoCAD was there, it was hugely missing from Inventor, especially having come from the same stable I was seriously gutted. There's probably damned good reasons why the functionality of AutoCAD wasn't ported over, I just hope it wasn't ditched simply to keep the cash cow of AutoCAD alive.

[jingyi.liu]

Hi David

I'm sorry that Inventor Frame Generator doesn't satisfy you.

Regarding to three weak areas you mentioned in the post, it would be great if you could give more detailed suggestions/ideas for future enhancement, there are some ideas in the forum, mainly focus on member reuse, naming, end treatment enhancement, but I think they don't reflect your request.

Back to the topic of 'Copy FG assembly', Chris introduced Vault Copy design as a workaround, do you need a copy design tool in Inventor, ensure that source assembly and target assembly are independent?

Regards,

Jingyi

[cbenner]

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@johnsonshiue wrote:

Hi David and Chris,

Many thanks for the feedback! Sometimes, when one looks way too much into the future, one tends to forget about the presence and the past. We all live in the presence and we should treasure every minute of it.

Frame Generator as a whole is a target rich area for improvement. It is where we should learn from our past and plan for immediate future. As you know well, I cannot guarantee anything. All I can promise is that your enthusiasm, feedback, and critique are taken seriously. They are the fuel propelling us move forward. I personally appreciate it deeply.

Thanks again!

---

I have seen your commitment to product enhancement for myself @johnsonshiue.  I know that you really want us to have the best tools, and I appreciate your hard work, even if sometimes I get frustrated too, and rant.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Chris,

Many thanks for your kind words! I wish I had a magic wand and I could make most of the wishes come true by pointing. Unfortunately, I don't have it.

You would be surprised that we actually agree more than we disagree. Inventor team has been trying very hard to change the negative perception for the past few years. I hope you are seeing the change in the product itself recenltly. Certainly there is still a lot of work remaining. The team is fully aware of it.

The team has a lot of enthusiasts like me trying our best to help customers and do the right things. Jingyi is a product manager now. He is trying to understand this particular request and thinking about how to enhance it. Please feel free to contact him directly.

Thanks again!

[blair]

Back to the Copy issue, I've attached a couple of documents on the various methods to copy assemblies.