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Distinguished Contributor
Jayman
Posts: 284
Registered: ‎10-19-2003
Message 11 of 37 (64 Views)

Re:

11-05-2002 11:47 PM in reply to: *Laimer, Leo
How about a novel idea... Autodesk waits one more month before release - using that extra month to further beta testing. The wait might just be worth the reduction in headaches. I know i wouldn't mind.
Contributor
guzie
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎09-03-2003
Message 12 of 37 (64 Views)

Re:

11-05-2002 11:57 PM in reply to: *Laimer, Leo
I was just going to type the same thing. On top of that each service pack needs testing time before deployment. Fewer SP means getting some more time to test them before deployment. Every patch they send out also has to be deployed across the company user base. For a large company this can be quite a bit of work. My IS department would kill me if we ran into the number of SP that SW typically has. I wouldn't want the quick hotfix approach of heres a bug, fix it and quickly throw out a patch.
*Laimer, Leo
Message 13 of 37 (64 Views)

Re:

11-06-2002 12:00 AM in reply to: *Laimer, Leo
That was exactly what I wanted to
suggest.

 

Regards,
--
Leo Laimer
Maschinen-
und Fertigungstechnik
A-4820 Bad Ischl - Austria


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How
about a novel idea... Autodesk waits one more month before release - using
that extra month to further beta testing. The wait might just be worth the
reduction in headaches. I know i wouldn't mind.
*Caldwell, Larry
Message 14 of 37 (64 Views)

Re:

11-06-2002 12:09 AM in reply to: *Laimer, Leo
Six billion sides to every story.
<G>

~Larry


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Theoreticly,
you should need as few service packs as possible. Ideally, none. I'd rather
have a company put out one stable SP then 5 of them that address one or two
issues each until at SP6 it's FINALLY stable.
*Jaquith, Walt
Message 15 of 37 (64 Views)

Re:

11-06-2002 12:32 AM in reply to: *Laimer, Leo
There was pretty extensive beta testing for R6. It didn't catch the
problems because no one could throw a production-level work load at the
beta. They couldn't commit to files that probably wouldn't translate to the
final version. It's the Great Gotcha of beta testing.

I don't really see many small patches as the answer, for reasons Sean has
already brought up. The other package has huge problems with sp conflicts
and tech support issues. "Let's see; are you running version 8.3 sp2.5 with
optional patches 2 and 6.1, or 8.2b sp4.2 with optional patch 4.3? Try
unloading SP3.1, and loading patch 4.2.2, and get back to us if that doesn't
fix it......" This is still bleeding edge software, and it has to be
re-installed every so often. I can completely wipe and reinstall Inventor
on my system in 30 minutes on a good day. I'd hate to try that with the
other one.

Still, there's a huge, ongoing problem here, and it needs an answer. Should
this entire industry be held hostage to these kind of problems? How many
millions of dollars in lost productivity have we suffered? How big a hit to
our image as professionals? How much time have we stressed off our lives?
I wish I had a good solution.

Of one thing I'm sure. Autodesk and other companies like it need to be more
accountable to their customers, and less to their stockholders.

Walt

"Jayman" wrote in message
news:f12043d.9@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> How about a novel idea... Autodesk waits one more month before release -
using that extra month to further beta testing. The wait might just be worth
the reduction in headaches. I know i wouldn't mind.
>
*Zirkle, Eric
Message 16 of 37 (64 Views)

Re:

11-06-2002 12:33 AM in reply to: *Laimer, Leo
What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2 or 3 large
service packs. The difference is they release them as the problems get
found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until there is a large
enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of something else
"breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth the risk.

"Purge" wrote in message
news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> But how many SP's do they need to have the product be stable? A lot. I
> personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4. Correctly me if I am
> wrong.
>
> I do agree that it should be more stable when it is released.
>
> "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> news:A5703A6EB18457EE1D6A4C97D14F49EB@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > But they will have a couple of service packs to fix their problems by
the
> > time we get our first.
> >
> > "Leo Laimer" wrote in message
> > news:BDE3CBBA6D5546C5CC028C906CF5831F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Group,
> > > Most of you know the name of Adesk's strongest competitor, and that
they
> > > were releasing their 2003 version recently.
> > > I'm randomly monitoring their NG and there is a big flame going on
about
> > the
> > > numerous bugs and instabilities of the new package. Although the
wording
> > is
> > > a bit more rude over there, the common sense is the same as here: The
> new
> > > release is inmature, and not good for productive use before the first
> > > servicepacks.
> > > It is obvious that the competitive race for being the first to release
> the
> > > newest version in both companies leads to serious quality issues
> > > In both NG more and more users are demanding better stability and
> quality
> > of
> > > the package, over a faster release cycle.
> > >
> > > So I, too, put my vote here for this demand, and ask all of you to do
> the
> > > same.
> > >
> > > Maybe Adesk is listening.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > --
> > > Leo Laimer
> > > Maschinen- und Fertigungstechnik
> > > A-4820 Bad Ischl - Austria
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*Zirkle, Eric
Message 17 of 37 (64 Views)

Re:

11-06-2002 12:38 AM in reply to: *Laimer, Leo
I don'e think it's a matter of not testing the
small SP's good enough, but rather they have a batting order of problems and as
they get some fixed the release the SP.


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We
should also give them time to test the SP's.
Solidworks apperantly do not
take time to test all the small sp's good enough.
I think quality control
is easier/better with big SP's.
*Keller, Kent
Message 18 of 37 (64 Views)

Re:

11-06-2002 12:51 AM in reply to: *Laimer, Leo
IMO it is the Great Gotcha that has to be changed in order for this process to improve.
Until that Gotcha is gone I think we will always have a high risk of a release with a few
to many problems.


--
Kent
Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program


"Walt Jaquith" wrote in message

It's the Great Gotcha of beta testing.
*Dotson, Sean
Message 19 of 37 (64 Views)

Re:

11-06-2002 12:55 AM in reply to: *Laimer, Leo
"I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with a service pack
but in my opinion it is worth the risk."

So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP to fix the Excel
Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped working all
together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.

--
Sean Dotson, PE
http://www.sdotson.com
...sleep is for the weak..
-----------------------------------------
"Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2 or 3 large
> service packs. The difference is they release them as the problems get
> found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until there is a large
> enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of something else
> "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth the risk.
>
> "Purge" wrote in message
> news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be stable? A lot. I
> > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4. Correctly me if I
am
*Radlin, David
Message 20 of 37 (64 Views)

Re:

11-06-2002 01:21 AM in reply to: *Laimer, Leo
I'm not suggesting that they don't fix
everything... take Windows for instance were several small patches are issued
but eventually one big one comes that includes all the small ones plus more...
thats what I'm talking about.  This way you don't need to wait for the big
one to get the fix you need.

 

Dave


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I
guess it's all a matter of preference. I liked the fact that 5.3 only had only
2 SP's, and I could see a good change in each. I would think that if I got
more SP's that didn't address everything, I would be upset that they didn't
fix this or that. <shrug>

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