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pdf versus dwf

18 REPLIES 18
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Message 1 of 19
moto748
644 Views, 18 Replies

pdf versus dwf

What are peoples' views on the merits and demerits of pdf versus dwf was a medium for fabrication drawings (produced from Inventor dwg)?

18 REPLIES 18
Message 2 of 19
mcgyvr
in reply to: moto748

100% PDF here..



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Inventor 2023 - Dell Precision 5570

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Message 3 of 19
Ray_Feiler
in reply to: moto748

DWF files are usually smaller but I have fewer issues with sending out PDF files. Most people are familiar with PDF and have Acrobat already installed.


Product Design & Manufacturing Collection 2024
Sometimes you just need a good old reboot.
Message 4 of 19
coreyparks
in reply to: moto748

We use mainly PDF as it takes Admin rights to get a dwf viewer installed and everyone already has adobe.

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Corey Parks
Message 5 of 19
jtrain
in reply to: moto748

You can digitaly sign a pdf, as far as I can tell dwf doesn't have this functionality.

So it is pdf for us.

Message 6 of 19
rdyson
in reply to: coreyparks

And there's no free dwf viewer for Mac!



PDSU 2016
Message 7 of 19
whunter
in reply to: rdyson

DWF has its merrits, but people, especially non-engineering people (like most clients) use PDFs. Sending someone a DWF (or DWFx) of a drawing is like sending a Word document as an XPS instead of a PDF. XPS? My point exactly.

 

3D PDFs would also be welcome...

--

wh

Message 8 of 19
jtylerbc
in reply to: moto748

We use PDF, and have no intention of changing.  PDF viewers are much more common than DWF viewers, and since our drawings have to be passed around internally as well as to both suppliers and customers, it just makes more sense to use something more universal.

 

At my previous company, we used DWF, but only for drawing markup purposes within the engineering group.  For the final version, we made a PDF for the same compatibility reasons.

Message 9 of 19
john.laidler
in reply to: jtylerbc

What about DWFx files?

 

John Laidler
AutoCAD, Inventor and Vault



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Message 10 of 19
whunter
in reply to: john.laidler

DWFx is a better option than DWF, but it is still not OS agnostic. You can view it with IE, but not with Chrome, Firefox (not without a plug-in you once again have to go download), Opera nor Safari.

 

PDF is OS agnostic, PDF viewers are everywhere (Windows to POSIX): I can export my drawings as PDFs and view and show them to clients on my Android tablet (even my Android phone) with Adobe's viewer. Then, if the client wants it, I can just give it to them (Bluetooth or USB) and go home and invoice - thanks. I don't have to worry about a client phoning me with questions like "what do I need to view this DWF/DWFx?", "it won't open in IE" (yes, I get that), and many other similar questions, which is more work for me that I can't invoice.

 

I know there is Inventor Publisher for 3D content and the viewer apps for iPads/iPhones and Android devices, but I have to fork out money for the publisher, not much, admittedly. But I'd rather spent that money on the full Acrobat, or a new 3D Connexion device, or a new screen, or a new Logitech Solar wireless keyboard...

 

For me, Design Review and DWF/DWFx technology is nothing more than in-house tool for design reviews (like eDrawings from SW). Other than that I don't see the point of using it, especially not for distributing design content downstream.

--

William

Message 11 of 19
acwtzwegers
in reply to: whunter

PDF has three drawbacks in my experience: image quality (i've seen some terrible prints come from pdf), tampering (because of the common-ness of the format, there's more ways to mess with it) and integration with AutoCAD (pdf's just don't work as well as underlays etc).

 

All of these do not weigh in against the fact that you don't need to guide your customers, sales dept and such through a step by step on how to view it. In principle DWFx is a "neater" format, but it just can't compete in common usage.

 

IOn the matter of PDMs (Vault), this whole debate is actually even more interesting: The SWx PDM uses pdf natively/internally - Vault uses DWF. By the reasoning of the posts in this thread it would mean that you'd be better of using the SWx pdm then Vault. (though of course Vault can still outpput to pdf)

Message 12 of 19
moto748
in reply to: whunter

Thanks, William and others: interesting comments.

Message 13 of 19
whunter
in reply to: acwtzwegers

The whole protection of IP thing and securing design intent is an intersting one: This is slightly off topic and a bit of a rant too, but here goes...

 

If you send someone a drawing, then they have the content, whether it is a hardcopy or electronic -- they can recreate it anyway. If people tamper with your drawings, it is for their account since you have to keep record of what you issued. E.g., if someone made a mistake during fabrication because they read a tolerance incorrectly on a drawing, and then changes the PDF to match the mistake, well, then so be it. But they have to prove you sent that drawing (the tampered one) and that's going to be a tough one. I've never had issues with people tampering with PDFs, you'd be stupid (or perhaps very clever) if you tried to change a secured PDF. In any case, why would you deal with such companies/people?

 

The best way to protect IP is to realise where the IP lies. If it's captured in a drawing, then you're doing something wrong. You have to be clever about it, and you'll realise that you can quite easily protect IP be keeping the design details close to your chest, e.g., have parts made by different suppliers, give only the required dimensions and not a million-zillion dims all over the show, add out of scale geometry (without dimensions). In any case, what stops a guy from taking photos and measuring an already fabricated product and producing it?

 

PDFs are neat, but sometimes people create bitmap (raster) PDFs, they look bad. But it is a vector format and will come out perfectly if you apply the correct settings.

 

I'm fortunate enough that my projects are all always once-offs, so I don't use PDM software, since it is easy enough to keep tabs of changes.

Message 14 of 19
joesbartels
in reply to: moto748

Internally we are using DWF files to send prints to the Fabrication shop.  They like having the 3D files with 2D files for figuring out tricky spots in our assemblies.  IT also gave them tablet computers with the DWF viewer installed so they can view models on the floor. 

Message 15 of 19
cmcconnell
in reply to: whunter

100% PDFS here...

Mechanix Design Solutions inc.
Message 16 of 19
acwtzwegers
in reply to: whunter

whunter - I fully agree. It is just that those "issues" with PDF have come up in my experience and I thought I'd balance out this thread a bit by pointing out that PDF isn't all perfect either.

 

Just the commonness of the format is the most important - that everyone knows it, can open it and all that is an advantage that just can't be countered by any of the disadvantages. (moreover: if DWF was as popular, you'd have as many ways to tamper with it, you'd have as many people using bitmaps etc.).

 

Although DWF(x) is a nice format I've often wondered if Autodesk shouldn't just give up. A "If you can't beat them - join them" kind of thing.

Message 17 of 19
guyh
in reply to: acwtzwegers

I like dwf and prefer a lot of the additional functions it brings but for us it's PDF.  It's just the format people understand and don't have to think about to use.  I have integrated 3D data in to PDF's using Acrobat Pro Extended.  It's not a perfect way to work and it would be nice if we could do the same from Inventor (It is still flaky from Publisher).

AutoCADM 2011 SP2
Inventor Pro 2011 SP2
Message 18 of 19
Vlad.Makarov
in reply to: moto748

100% PDF

______________
Inventor Pro 2012
Vault Pro 2012
Message 19 of 19
whunter
in reply to: acwtzwegers


@acwtzwegers wrote:

<snip>

 

Although DWF(x) is a nice format I've often wondered if Autodesk shouldn't just give up. A "If you can't beat them - join them" kind of thing.

 

Agreed. An Autodesk Design Review that works with PDF files. Must be possible.

 

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