Frame does not change when sketch is changed

[n00kie.tdc]

Hey fellow Autodesk users!

Faced such an issue:

I am building frame using frame generator. Well, firstly I build a sketch and then afterwards from that sketch I already make frame itself.

What I want to do iis when I am changing length of some frame memebers in a sketch, I want frame members to be changed as well.

For example:

From here you see that everything is ok. Frame members are according to the sketch.

But when I am changing the sketch, frame stais as it is on the first picture without any changes. Previously it was changing, but then something happened and it doesn't change anymore.

Can anybody explain me what am i doing wrong? Could it be some representations issue? Or is it something else?

For me it seems that reference skeleton of a frame is not referenced to the sketch of the frame .ipt. 

Thank you for explaining and taking your time for this.

Regards,

Vadim. 

[MariaManuela]

Hi Vadim,

You already installed SP1?

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=17534725&linkID=9242019

In read me file you can see what SP1 fixes or addresses. Frame Generator also included:

Frame Generator

• If you change a frame member size, constraints are lost.
• Inventor crashes when you cancel the Miter dialog box on a French operating system.
• Length does not update to the correct parameters for a Frame member.

Hope help

[n00kie.tdc]

Dear Maria,

I installed SP1, but this issue continues.

Or should I redo the things I've been doing in order to changes take place?

Or otherwise I still think it is me, who did something that it is no longer updating. Because though I didn't have SP1 , frame was changing according to the sketch. But then after something time it stoped doing that.

And also, I have two similar assemblies with frames. Then I put them into one assembly. And whenever I am changing in one of those sub-assemblies then nothing changes in main assembly. In order to have some changes to be done I have to replace the sub-assembly.

This issue just started to appear yesterday. Before didn't have such a problem. Besides I believe it me, who is doing something weird. I suggest it is somehow connected with REPRESENTATIONS.

Maybe I am wrong 😃

Still be waiting for the solution. 

[MariaManuela]

Hi again,

Could you please attach here the frame subassembly and all the inherent parts?

Is more easier to help

[stevec781]

If you close the assembly and open it again does it update?  I often see that frames that are in subassemblies do not update when a sketch is changed.  But they update when the model is closed and opened agian.

[n00kie.tdc]

The problem is that when I close whole assembly and open it again, it seems that there is a reference.

For example I opened main assembly. Then i change something in sub-assembly. Then I close the main assembly and open it again it tells me that there has been changes and asks if I should update, i click YES, and then it doesn't update from the sub-assembly. it remains as it was.

And the problem is not only with FRAME memebers. As I said whenever I am changing something else in a sub-assembly, not the frame member, these parts do NOT change in the main assembly. So that's weird also.

But I haven't tried this in other projects, it is the first time I seem to have such issue.

Here is the link to RAR folder, which contains all files needed. 

http://www.2shared.com/file/cCW2St06/Matilda_Frame.html

[stevec781]

Just to clarify I meant close the top level assembly.  When I see this problem of frames failing to update, if I just close the sub assembly it still doesnt update.  I have to close everything.  It seems a bit random but happens often.

[n00kie.tdc]

I understood what you meant. No, that doesn't help.

But I think it is my fault, I probably messed up with representations. because i just started to draw the same from the scratch and everything seems to work again. i change the sketch and frame changes according to the sketch. I will proceed further, hopefully I will end up with something working 😃

P.S. i guess I need to get to know more about representations. 

And also I think it was a mistake to makes holes within FRAME .ipt file. I should have made them as features in a assembly. Probably that could be the reason they are not changing because they remain adaptive. Well, anyway everything seems to work now. 

[PaulMunford]

Be carefull not to suppress your frame generator skeletal model part. That can make things go a little screwy...

[n00kie.tdc]

Ok, i think I found a glitch in Inventor.

Example:

I draw simple sketch like this:

Then MANAGE I make this sketch as iPart. I name dimension of 425mm as X_Dimension and make two values of that. one is 425mm another one 670mm. Now this sketch is represented as iPart.

Then I create new .iam file (assembly file) and try to make a frame. I try to place this sketch into assembly file and it is impossible to do that. It shows that files is in assembly file, it is in the browser, but it never appears as a sketch.

Then if that is not possible i just delete iPart table and it tells me that it will make this skeleton for frame as a simple part, I click OK.

Then i am able to place the sketch into assembly with no problem. I make frame according to that sketch. But then I change this 425mm into 670mm MANUALLY in part file. And guess what- FRAME DOES NOT CHANGE ACCORDING TO NEW SKETCH SIZES 😃

BUT- I have another file, which has NEVER been manipulated with iPart option, and there is no problem with that AT ALL! I change manually any dimension and frame changes according to new data.

SO- I guess THERE IS some kind of problem between iPart option and FRAME GENERATOR. 

[n00kie.tdc]

Some of you have red that problem was solved, but it actually is not.

Example:

I created sketch as .ipt file. Then I created Assembly file and placed this sketch into assembly. Then I built frame from the sketch. Then I made sketch as iPart so one of the dimensions could be easily changed.

Now I have one dimension that can be changed and frame actually does change as well.

Then I place some parts on this frame. And make this assembly as iAssembly. because this frame is standard and some of the parts are changable. So in iAssembly I just set some of the parts to be included or Excluded.

And after this, when I change my frame dimensions it does not change! (if you remember I made frame sketch of two types as iPart) so i actually have two standard frames, which supposed to be changed from iPart option. 

[n00kie.tdc]

here are some pics:

In this case Assembly is iAssembly. There are two possibilities:

1)IC120 Heat exchanger is standing with two nuts under the legs.

2)IC56 Heat exchanger is standing just on the frame without nuts.

So the case is IC120 and two nuts are included and IC56 is Excluded.

And another scenario is when IC120 and two nuts are excluded and IC56 is included.

When this iAssembly function exists Frame will not update if I will change it, it is also seen on the picture that sketch is changed but frame remains the same.

But as soon as i delete iAssembly feature frame starts to work properly. 

[coreyparks]

My guess would be that creating the sketch as an iPart is where all of the problems are coming from.  I use frame generator a lot and have never seen the issue u describe.  However if I remove a line from my sketch it orphans the corresponding part and it will no longer change.  When you creat an iPart and switch from one size the the next you are deleting one part and replacing with another.  In otherwords you are deleting your entire sketch and then replacing it with another and Inventor loses the references to those lines.  Deleting things from the sketch is never good when there is a frame part already attached to that line.

[drlamb]

I had a similar issue when I was on 2010. If the dimension change was under 1/2 inch, only half of my frame would update. I haven't noticed if it is still happening or not, and never got any responses to my post, so no help here. Sorry, just rambling I guess.

[n00kie.tdc]

Dear Corey,

Well, I thought the same, and it sounds reasonable. But whenever I am deleting iAssembly option, then iPart (the one with changing sketches) works perfectly. But still I am creating iPart after I place the sketch into assembly. Besides, I don't think it is deleting the previous sketch and makes the new one as you said. There are several proofs:

First of all it would also then delete constraints betwen te line, but they change according to requirements.

And in iPart the changable thing is only dimension, so it should change ONLY dimension, without changing the whole part.

Besides as I mention previously whenever ther s no iAssembly option, ten it performs perfectly.

Well, I am no PRO in that, but I still think this is an issue, which should be fixed at some point. 

It is not hard for me to change some things manually, but really would loved to do that with just one click. 😃 

[coreyparks]

Like I said it's a guess that this wold be the problem, but as for how iParts work, yes it's deleting one part and replacing it with another.  For every version of an iPart you are creating another child file, so if you have an iPart with 20 versions in total you will end up with 21 files created.  One will be the parent iPart and 20 of them will be child files created from it.  Inventor has become much better with keeping constraints when parts are replaced and it has always worked fine when the parts changed are iParts.  Frame Generator is a bit more picky however and I would recommend not using iParts for frame sketches.  Like I said I use frame generator several times a week to make frames from 5-10 parts to as much as 100-150 parts and I have never ever seen the issue you are describing, and I have used Inventor since version 3.

[PaulMunford]

I think that corey is right here. I suggest that you look at iLogic for changing the size of your skeltal part from your Assembly file instead.

About Frame Generator, LOD and BOM

[elyasf · Accepted solution]

I recently ran into this problem after months of using the Frame Generator with no issues.  I have not used iParts or iAssemblies so most of the solutions listed here did not help at all.

But I did manage to fix my problem, I simply un-grounded my skeleton sketch. Most of the frames assemblies that I have created contain only the skeleton sketch and the frame, so the skeleton sketch (.ipt file) was always inserted as a grounded part because it was the first and only component placed in the assembly. None of my other frame models have had this issue even though all of their sketches are grounded.  Only this one file for some reason would not update  the frame after I changed the sketch. 

So the solution that I found is if your skeleton part is grounded, then un-ground it and your frame may update.  

I hope this helps.

[ARCross]

That is a great trick.  You've just saved me a lot of time.  Thank you!

[cbenner]

This problem has just resurfaced today for me on Inventor 2013 SP2.  I have not had this problem until this morning, and I've built several dozen frames since upgrading.  The pattern seems to be that if I place a frame meber.  Then later change the size of the steel, and THEN later still, change the sketch to move the piece... that's when it no longer follows the sketch.  The only thing to do is delete that member and re-place it.  This of course is muddying up my working folder with a bunch of useless files, and taking more time than I have to finish this frame.

Anyone else having this problem in 2013?