Forced to check out Subassemblies that I have not changed

[vroomer85]

When working in the top level assembly, Inventor will often force me to check out subassemblies that I have not changed.  Sometimes I am simply moving parts withing the top assembly and Inventor sees changes in several of the subassemblies and ask if I want to check them out.  None of these assemblies are adaptive and the only file I am actually changing is the top level assembly (which is checked out to me).  There are times when all I've done is open the top assembly from the vault and Inventor tells me that I have modified several subassemblies and component files within the subassemblies.  I have not made any modifications since the previous day when I checked in my changes at the end of the day and suddenly I have to check out 10% of the files because I have "modified" them by opening them.  This creates probems with numerous unnecessary versions in the vault and at times problems with subassemblies being checked out by co-workers working on the same machine but a different section.

-Nick

Windows 7 64 bit

Autodesk Inventor 2010 Simulation SP3

[scottmoyse]

exactly. I have had that happen as well, only been using it since march.

[bentbrandt]

Well the blogs indicate to me that many vault users have varied problems of the same theme, that somehow some files are treated as if they have changed, and therefore they need to be checked out and an updated version has to be vaulted.

At the moment it seems as if we are on the stage where we argue with Autodesk: are we using it as it was intended(as they promised it to be) or is it in fact bugged.

I'm trying to eliminate the above mentioned causes for the checkout and reproducing the "error".

Guess we have some support requests and wishlogs to file to get more attention to the matter 😉

Peter

[scottmoyse]

I'm working with my Reseller and a couple of people within Autodesk on this, hopefully I will get somewhere, at this stage it appears the support guys involved in the 'cracking the vault' blog aren't convinced there is an issue. Thats a shame really.

I can understand the iPart blog post, but the one suggesting you should only use 1 project file in Vault and don't use assemblies in libraries, is unacceptable for an awful lot of vault users. 

I think its time for me to shut up, put me head down and really hammer out some proof there are bugs in this process. The worse thing is everytime I have tried to reproduce certain issues, I haven't been able to force their occurence, they always jump up and bit you in the a*s* at the worst possible time.

[imcjoek]

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@scottmoyse wrote:

What do you guys think to these two blogs posts?

http://crackingthevault.typepad.com/crackingthevault/2010/10/changes-have-been-made-to-some-assembly...

I have my opinions but I think I might wait until I have heard some of yours.

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To the first blog, I do not think this is a logical workflow.  Should be:

Checking out an iPart factory should automatically check out any children that are already vaulted.

Checking in an iPart factory should automatically, or at least prompt for, the generation of all already vaulted children.  Then they should check in along with the factory.

This removes the "Problem saving..." dialog which occurs when it inevitably tries to save a child that has not been checked out.

It also assures that the version of children will match the version of the factory.

Finally, the user can be assured that any children used will be correct to the factory.

The only down side I see, is that any assembly using that iPart will want to be checked out next time it is open, since it will see a new version of the child part, even if *that particular child* was not edited.  I still think this workflow makes the process more transparent.

There also exists a related reproducable error, where if you:
Check out an iPart factory and all children.  (Let's say you want to add a column).

Edit the factory as desired.  Generate all children.

Check in the factory.  All the children will also check in.

Open an assembly that used this iPart.

Save this assembly.  The iPart will now claim it is edited out of turn, even though it was not edited.

Also, editing certain properties of a Factory will not mark the children as needing regeneration.

Also Also:
Migration to a new version seems to not work quite correctly with regards to checking out.  The need for migration on a file allows the user to save it, even if it is read only (not checked out).  This causes all kinds of nasty quantum effects down the file hierarchy.

In summary:
There are enough errors here to compound in unexpected ways.  Blaming it wholly on user workflow seems disingenious.

[scottmoyse]

This assembly has already been used and saved several times, even checked in and out of Vault. But this video captures the point at which Inventor decides it needs to save to the files. You might say ‘well the assembly hasn’t been updated until now’, but these library assemblies have been used numerous times in other assemblies and since we only model using skeletal/Multi-body modelling techniques we update and tweak our designs constantly right up until they are released.

http://screencast.com/t/PrS1FcTews

so it shows this blog post doesn't apply in this instance http://crackingthevault.typepad.com/crackingthevault/2010/10/changes-have-been-made-to-some-assembly...

[jpealo]

We've had this issue in our office and a pile of issues all related to this for 6 releases now.

Despite several tickets requesting help from Autodesk....

We've been informed that we're the problem, not the software.

I learned from a man much wiser than myself that "Attitude can make or break a company".

[ryanwolff90]

I know i'm a few years too late, but has there been a solution to this issue?

We are running Inventor 2014 with Windchill. If I open an assembly, which was imported via a step file, and go to immediately close it, it assumes something was modified in one or more of my files. Most people in our office just select yes to save the files and they check out every single part/assembly that is "modified", creating unecessary versions. It is very irritating.

[MrSmithtastic]

I wanted to wade in here, 8 years later and this issue still persists! Constant pop-ups asking me to check out parts or sub-assemblies that haven't been touched. Then after you say no, it persists in asking you a further 100 times! No means no, Autodesk!!!

Someone at Autodesk needs a **** good talking to IMHO.

It just cannot be impossible for Inventor to check whether or not a file has actually been dirtied?! And to be honest I could put up with being asked once if I want to check something out, I don't understand why the hell the program doesn't seem to log that answer and leave me alone!

[bentbrandt]

The workaround I'm using is to checkout my entire component library in the vault to an administrator user. -Every time I make a new component I log on as the admin before adding it to the vault, but leave it checked out to the admin. 

I log on as another user (myself) when I make projects and assemblies, this way the component library stays "pure"

It's a pain but it seems it will never be taken seriously.
Issues like this is adding to the cons on keeping Inventor as a tool in our company.

[MrSmithtastic]

This workaround must add a fair amount of time to your workflow? I create a LOT of new parts constantly and I think doing this would slow me down a great deal. I just really cannot fathom why this hasn't been fixed yet!

[bentbrandt]

Yes it adds some managing the log in and check out processes.

However, its a must to combat the massive amount of versions the vault would be filled with because of the "updated" files. - I saw 2 digit versions of models with absolutely no changes to geometry or material, yet just opening the file seemed to require a new version of some parts. -By ensuring my standard construction components to stay locked (checked out to admin user) the versions in vault only change when a user make an actual change to a component or machine, not at the whims of the program.

[MrSmithtastic]

There's no reason why Inventor/Vault couldn't emulate this somehow. I really find it hard to believe someone at Autodesk hasn't even tried to find a way to solve this issue yet.

Thanks for your response, I might have to consider trying it out to see what happens. Unfortunately, I fear that where I work mostly on new projects or constantly developing projects your workaround might end up causing more issues than it solves.

[bentbrandt]

Yes, this only works on "standard" and finished components you use over and over again, it's not a solution for projects or custom assemblies. Best of luck to you!

[karthur1]

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@bentbrandt wrote:

The workaround I'm using is to checkout my entire component library in the vault to an administrator user. -Every time I make a new component I log on as the admin before adding it to the vault, but leave it checked out to the admin. 

I log on as another user (myself) when I make projects and assemblies, this way the component library stays "pure"

It's a pain but it seems it will never be taken seriously.
Issues like this is adding to the cons on keeping Inventor as a tool in our company.

---

Or.... after you check-in the file, you could change the state to "Released" state.  Then it will not participate in the check-outs/changes when you open the assembly.

For component libraries, things like nuts, bolts, commercial hardware (things that really should not be changing), I keep this in the "released" state also, and also overwrite the permissions on the folder they reside in so the state can't be changed.  I have the permissions set to allow the admin to change the state, but nobody else.

Just another way to skin the cat.

With the way you have it, if I am following correctly, is you have the files checked-out to the admin on your workstation, but you also are logged in as a different user.  When you go to vault and do a "Get", it will complain and tell you that it cant overwrite checked-out files.  I got tired of doing it that way.

[MrSmithtastic]

Is this functionality available in Vault basic?

[MrSmithtastic]

Just had a look for myself and seen that this isn't available with Vault basic, so essentially there's still no way around this issue for us.

Thanks anyways

[karthur1]

I did not see Vault Basic mentioned in your other posts. Its not in Vault Basic.

[MrSmithtastic]

No, I hadn't mentioned it. My understanding is that this is an issue with Inventor dirtying files on opening so I didn't think Vault was worth bringing up.

Might have to try and convince my company to upgrade Vault, though to fix this one issue, I'm not sure they'll go for it.

[karthur1]

If you are having such an issue with Inventor "dirtying" the files, I have to ask.... have you tried to save/check-in an assembly, then turn right around and open it again in Inventor?  Does it want to check-out the file then?  It should not, but if it is there might be something else going on.

Wondering if there is some thrid-party app or add-in you have running that makes the file dirty when its reopened.

You might have already mentioned this in your other posts, I have just not read back through all of them.

[Curtis_Waguespack]

Just as an FYI, I think there has been a bit of progress on this in the last (couple, few?) releases....at least concerning being able to dirty library files.

In 2020 I had to change a copy design automation routine, because in the past I would hit the "library" files in memory before copying them over to make new custom designs.... I did this on purpose because it was a slick way to carry information forward in the copy process, but 2020 prevents those files from being changed in memory so I had to change the technique.... in any case it seems like there is someone working on this, at least a bit.... I'm not sure if it's completely solved though.

What version(s) are you using?