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Valued Mentor
Valued Mentor
wh
Posts: 418
Registered: ‎12-27-2003
Message 1 of 12 (319 Views)

Caution with thicken and sheet metal

319 Views, 11 Replies
09-26-2013 10:09 AM

See file. I've noticed it with 2013, and it's same behavior in 2014.

 

1. Measurement between yellow faces shows 200 mm

2. Do Rebuild all and measure again: 200 mm

3. Move EOP behind Face1 and measure 200 mm

4. Move EOP down: 200 mm

5. Unsuppress Thicken1

6. Move EOP behind Thicken1: 205 mm now is ok.

7. Move EOP full down: 205 mm

8. Do Rebuild all. Now you get 195 mm. Funny to see, that the red face is moving, too.

9. Move EOP behind Thicken1 and back again. Yellow and red faces are well again.

10. Do it again, and again

 

Hmm. I think, I'll have to inspect several of my sheet metal files. And I think, Adesk should have a look here, too.

 

Walter 

Distinguished Mentor
ccarreiras
Posts: 709
Registered: ‎02-04-2010
Message 2 of 12 (309 Views)

Re: Caution with thicken and sheet metal

09-26-2013 10:31 AM in reply to: wh

Hi!

 

 

I experienced the same... :smileysurprised:    ... but... i wonder...why using thickness!?

 

BTW, I tried with "move face" instead "Thickness" and works good!!! ...but in my opinion, it's not a good practice to use this kind of tools in sheet metal... only if I imported some SMetal part from another CAD package an need to make some edits.

 

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CarlosC

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Valued Mentor
Valued Mentor
wh
Posts: 418
Registered: ‎12-27-2003
Message 3 of 12 (296 Views)

Re: Caution with thicken and sheet metal

09-26-2013 11:07 AM in reply to: ccarreiras

Thanks for your reply, Carlos

 

Well, Thicken is a Quick-and-Dirty method for changing a single edge in complex SM parts, without the need of moving through the whole feature tree. I think, ADesk is aware of some benefits of Direct Editing, too.

 

IMO, Thicken is easier and faster to use than Move Face. There are several ways for getting the same result, no need for a discussion. But each of these different ways should be reliable.

 

Walter

*Expert Elite*
-niels-
Posts: 1,486
Registered: ‎06-20-2006
Message 4 of 12 (255 Views)

Re: Caution with thicken and sheet metal

09-26-2013 11:20 PM in reply to: wh
I think it might have something to do with Thicken actually making a new edge, so the Flange doesn't fully "understand" where it's supposed to connect when you unsuppress the Thicken.

Like Carlos said, Move Face works which is probably because Move Face actually moves the same edge the Flange is attached to.

In any case, there is some strange behavior so you would indeed need to use some caution when doing things this way.

Using IV2014 Pro SP2 - upd.1, Win7-64bit
Valued Mentor
Valued Mentor
wh
Posts: 418
Registered: ‎12-27-2003
Message 5 of 12 (239 Views)

Re: Caution with thicken and sheet metal

09-27-2013 01:16 AM in reply to: -niels-

I don't think, that a new edge is built by Thicken.

 

Try this: 

- Add a MoveFace operation behind Face1

- Move EOP again behind Face1

- Make an IDW of this situation and dimension both edges of the rectangle

- Now move EOP down one step (MoveFace1) and look at the IDW. No pink dimension.

- Another step down (Thicken1), and nothing pink again

 

Only the last step (adding Flange) shows pink. But that's normal.

 

These changes are happening even without a Rebuild All operation. I don't know exactly when that happens, but after changing parts back to their intended look, some time later they were damaged again.

 

Walter

 

*Expert Elite*
-niels-
Posts: 1,486
Registered: ‎06-20-2006
Message 6 of 12 (228 Views)

Re: Caution with thicken and sheet metal

09-27-2013 02:04 AM in reply to: wh

I've rebuilt your model from scratch and i can't get it to do the same, see file attached.

 

What i did notice is that you have a Bend Relief setting of "none" which i don't, i wonder if that might be causing something.

Flange_relief_wh.pngYour settings

 

Flange_relief_niels.pngMy settings


Using IV2014 Pro SP2 - upd.1, Win7-64bit
*Expert Elite*
-niels-
Posts: 1,486
Registered: ‎06-20-2006
Message 7 of 12 (217 Views)

Re: Caution with thicken and sheet metal

09-27-2013 02:52 AM in reply to: -niels-
I think the bend relief shape setting might be the problem.
After checking your sheet metal rule i found it was supposed to be "straight", so i set it to that and now it doesn't show the behavior you described anymore.

If you can confirm this, then there is something strange going on with how your rules are being handled.

Using IV2014 Pro SP2 - upd.1, Win7-64bit
Valued Mentor
Valued Mentor
wh
Posts: 418
Registered: ‎12-27-2003
Message 8 of 12 (216 Views)

Re: Caution with thicken and sheet metal

09-27-2013 02:54 AM in reply to: -niels-

Hmm. Can you do the same test in 2013? That's where the file was created at first.

 

Thanks

Walter

*Expert Elite*
-niels-
Posts: 1,486
Registered: ‎06-20-2006
Message 9 of 12 (202 Views)

Re: Caution with thicken and sheet metal

09-27-2013 03:18 AM in reply to: wh
The file you posted is in IV2014 format, so i can't open it with 2013.

Using IV2014 Pro SP2 - upd.1, Win7-64bit
Valued Mentor
Valued Mentor
wh
Posts: 418
Registered: ‎12-27-2003
Message 10 of 12 (194 Views)

Re: Caution with thicken and sheet metal

09-27-2013 03:55 AM in reply to: -niels-

Sure. I've been thinking of creating another test part with 2013.

 

Meanwhile I've done that for myself, and took a closer look at the template I used. It's a customer-modified template (originally made mit 11 SP3, last save with 2011 SP1). I'm wondering now why 2013 sent no message about using this old non-migrated template.

 

But I used it once more for testing. Strange now, that I couldn't reproduce that damage again.

 

:smileysad: Something's going wrong, and I don't know how it happens. But I'll save this old template as 2013 now.

 

Walter

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