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Caution with thicken and sheet metal

11 REPLIES 11
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Message 1 of 12
WHolzwarth
900 Views, 11 Replies

Caution with thicken and sheet metal

See file. I've noticed it with 2013, and it's same behavior in 2014.

 

1. Measurement between yellow faces shows 200 mm

2. Do Rebuild all and measure again: 200 mm

3. Move EOP behind Face1 and measure 200 mm

4. Move EOP down: 200 mm

5. Unsuppress Thicken1

6. Move EOP behind Thicken1: 205 mm now is ok.

7. Move EOP full down: 205 mm

8. Do Rebuild all. Now you get 195 mm. Funny to see, that the red face is moving, too.

9. Move EOP behind Thicken1 and back again. Yellow and red faces are well again.

10. Do it again, and again

 

Hmm. I think, I'll have to inspect several of my sheet metal files. And I think, Adesk should have a look here, too.

 

Walter 

Walter Holzwarth

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11 REPLIES 11
Message 2 of 12
CCarreiras
in reply to: WHolzwarth

Hi!

 

 

I experienced the same... Smiley Surprised    ... but... i wonder...why using thickness!?

 

BTW, I tried with "move face" instead "Thickness" and works good!!! ...but in my opinion, it's not a good practice to use this kind of tools in sheet metal... only if I imported some SMetal part from another CAD package an need to make some edits.

 

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Regards.
CCarreiras
Message 3 of 12
WHolzwarth
in reply to: CCarreiras

Thanks for your reply, Carlos

 

Well, Thicken is a Quick-and-Dirty method for changing a single edge in complex SM parts, without the need of moving through the whole feature tree. I think, ADesk is aware of some benefits of Direct Editing, too.

 

IMO, Thicken is easier and faster to use than Move Face. There are several ways for getting the same result, no need for a discussion. But each of these different ways should be reliable.

 

Walter

Walter Holzwarth

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Message 4 of 12
-niels-
in reply to: WHolzwarth

I think it might have something to do with Thicken actually making a new edge, so the Flange doesn't fully "understand" where it's supposed to connect when you unsuppress the Thicken.

Like Carlos said, Move Face works which is probably because Move Face actually moves the same edge the Flange is attached to.

In any case, there is some strange behavior so you would indeed need to use some caution when doing things this way.

Niels van der Veer
Inventor professional user & 3DS Max enthusiast
Vault professional user/manager
The Netherlands

Message 5 of 12
WHolzwarth
in reply to: -niels-

I don't think, that a new edge is built by Thicken.

 

Try this: 

- Add a MoveFace operation behind Face1

- Move EOP again behind Face1

- Make an IDW of this situation and dimension both edges of the rectangle

- Now move EOP down one step (MoveFace1) and look at the IDW. No pink dimension.

- Another step down (Thicken1), and nothing pink again

 

Only the last step (adding Flange) shows pink. But that's normal.

 

These changes are happening even without a Rebuild All operation. I don't know exactly when that happens, but after changing parts back to their intended look, some time later they were damaged again.

 

Walter

 

Walter Holzwarth

EESignature

Message 6 of 12
-niels-
in reply to: WHolzwarth

I've rebuilt your model from scratch and i can't get it to do the same, see file attached.

 

What i did notice is that you have a Bend Relief setting of "none" which i don't, i wonder if that might be causing something.

Flange_relief_wh.pngYour settings

 

Flange_relief_niels.pngMy settings


Niels van der Veer
Inventor professional user & 3DS Max enthusiast
Vault professional user/manager
The Netherlands

Message 7 of 12
-niels-
in reply to: -niels-

I think the bend relief shape setting might be the problem.
After checking your sheet metal rule i found it was supposed to be "straight", so i set it to that and now it doesn't show the behavior you described anymore.

If you can confirm this, then there is something strange going on with how your rules are being handled.

Niels van der Veer
Inventor professional user & 3DS Max enthusiast
Vault professional user/manager
The Netherlands

Message 8 of 12
WHolzwarth
in reply to: -niels-

Hmm. Can you do the same test in 2013? That's where the file was created at first.

 

Thanks

Walter

Walter Holzwarth

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Message 9 of 12
-niels-
in reply to: WHolzwarth

The file you posted is in IV2014 format, so i can't open it with 2013.

Niels van der Veer
Inventor professional user & 3DS Max enthusiast
Vault professional user/manager
The Netherlands

Message 10 of 12
WHolzwarth
in reply to: -niels-

Sure. I've been thinking of creating another test part with 2013.

 

Meanwhile I've done that for myself, and took a closer look at the template I used. It's a customer-modified template (originally made mit 11 SP3, last save with 2011 SP1). I'm wondering now why 2013 sent no message about using this old non-migrated template.

 

But I used it once more for testing. Strange now, that I couldn't reproduce that damage again.

 

Smiley Sad Something's going wrong, and I don't know how it happens. But I'll save this old template as 2013 now.

 

Walter

Walter Holzwarth

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Message 11 of 12
johnsonshiue
in reply to: WHolzwarth

Walter,

 

The behavior can be reproduced only when Flange is created on the edge created by Face and then you move EOP to above Flange1 to create Thicken. "Automatic Blending" option in Thicken command actually makes Thicken behave more like Move Face. You can reproduce the same behavior by swapping Thicken/auto blend to Move Face. And, you will get the same result.

The edge creating Flange was created by Face, not Thicken. Thicken simply "moves" the edge farther. Did you notice that even when Thicken is suppressed, Flange can still compute?

The behavior is indeed confusing. I will follow up with development and see what can be done with it. In the meantime, you could either create zero-angle Flange or Thicken/auto blend off for this case to avoid the behavior.

Many thanks for letting us know!

 



Johnson Shiue (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com)
Software Test Engineer
Message 12 of 12
WHolzwarth
in reply to: johnsonshiue

Thanks, Johnson.

 

Cheers

Walter

Walter Holzwarth

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