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Associative Copy Object not updating

15 REPLIES 15
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Message 1 of 16
stevec781
1418 Views, 15 Replies

Associative Copy Object not updating

The assembly in the attached files was working fine in 2011, then for some reason it stopped updating.  So I opened and saved in 2012 and it still doesnt update. 

 

Open the assembly, edit the extrusion in Copy Surface Master and change the distance to 500.  You can see that the copied faces do not update in the other parts, but there are no error warnings.

 

I logged with my VAR and they said use derive instead and closed the ticket.  Sure derive is another way but copy object with associativity should work so this is my way of bringing to autodesks attention.

15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16
Inv_kaos
in reply to: stevec781

I wouldn't recommend using copy object or adaptivity when there are much better ways to do this. But if you want to use adaptivity then don't bother copying the face of the part and don't use cut edges (unless you absolutely have to), instead just project the top edge and the inside edge of your master part and constrain directly to those end points. The sketch will update adaptively directly from the master part.

Please mark as "Accept as Solution" if it answers your question or "Kudos" if you found it useful.
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Stew, AICP
Inventor Professional 2013, Autodesk Simulation Multiphysics 2013
Windows 7 x64 Core i7 32GB Ram FX2000
Message 3 of 16
stevec781
in reply to: Inv_kaos

My view is that if Autodesk provides an ability in the software then it should work - especially with such a simple example.

 

Message 4 of 16
Inv_kaos
in reply to: stevec781

Well that is one stance and certainly correct. However if you have an opportunity to learn to do it better, more efficiently, you wont ever waste your time with adaptivity or copy object again.

 

I have never used copy object in a parametric model and I haven't used adaptivity in over 5 years. So you wont hear me chasing them up to fix it but it surely should be fixed.

 

Perhaps someone from Autodesk will log it. Good luck.

 

Please mark as "Accept as Solution" if it answers your question or "Kudos" if you found it useful.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stew, AICP
Inventor Professional 2013, Autodesk Simulation Multiphysics 2013
Windows 7 x64 Core i7 32GB Ram FX2000
Message 5 of 16
stevec781
in reply to: Inv_kaos

Dont get me wrong, I use derived components in preference to adaptivity whenever I can, but in some cases it is faster and cleaner (less clutter in the file) to copy just 1 face instead of deriving the whole part, and sometimes there are no edges to project so an intersection in the sketch is faster than creating dummy geometry just to have an edge to project.

 

Autodesk should fix it or stop pretending and delete it.

Message 6 of 16
stevec781
in reply to: stevec781

ok so here's a problem I just found, how do you use the common origin derived component workflow when frame generator is involved? 

 

The frame member origins have no relationship to the global origin so I cant think of any other way except for copy object when I need to reference a frame member. 

Message 7 of 16
Inv_kaos
in reply to: stevec781

The skeleton shares the same origin, so derive the assembly not the parts. The FG creates a sub-assembly, from this derive in whatever frame members you need in your multi-body master part (or directly into your part files). Since you are using the FG Sub when you place the parts into your main FG assembly it wont cause any cyclic dependancy issues.

 

It updates really well and, most importantly, doesn't rely on adaptivity.

 

Tips: Always derive in as a surface and set the surfaces to transparent (makes it easier to separate your new solids from your references). I find it is best to set up ViewReps in your assembly first and then derive in the assembly with the associative ViewRep, saves heaps of time when you only want to bring in the minimal amount of reference parts.

 

Hope it Helps.

Please mark as "Accept as Solution" if it answers your question or "Kudos" if you found it useful.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stew, AICP
Inventor Professional 2013, Autodesk Simulation Multiphysics 2013
Windows 7 x64 Core i7 32GB Ram FX2000
Message 8 of 16
stevec781
in reply to: Inv_kaos

Unfortunately derive assembly doesnt work too well either as the exclude selected components button is greyed out all the time so all the other parts would come in as well which is just too messy.

Message 9 of 16
stevec781
in reply to: stevec781

Bump

 

Still not fixed in 2013 or 2014.

 

In the tool part, change the sketch dimension of 250 to 450.

 

No error generated and no update of the copied faces.

 

Capture1.JPG

 

Capture2.JPG

 

 

 

Message 10 of 16
johnsonshiue
in reply to: stevec781

Hi! I took a look at this issue. It seems like Inventor no longer thinks the Associative Composite (Copy Object) in "copy surface derived sheet metal:1" and "copy surface derived standard:1" is linked to "copy surface master:1."

Without going through the update workflow, you can simply do the following to see the problem.

 

1) Open the assembly.

2) Delete the adaptive source, copy surface master:1.

3) Rebuild all.

There is no error coming up. There should be an error, if the link is live.

 

The two ways I am aware of this could happen is, either there is a bug somewhere, or the two adaptive parts and the source part are inserted into a new assembly, where their adaptive relatioship was not established in the new assembly.

Do you still have the working R2011 files? I would like to take a closer look and see how the problem occurs.

Thanks!

 



Johnson Shiue (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com)
Software Test Engineer
Message 11 of 16
stevec781
in reply to: johnsonshiue

Hi Johnson

It's probably better that you inspect the files in post 9.  They were created in V2013 to demonstrate the problem and have never been used in any other assembly.

Message 12 of 16
yavodaco
in reply to: stevec781

Any progress with this?
Also having this problem constantly. I mentioned, that this occurs after computer reload....
Message 13 of 16
stevec781
in reply to: yavodaco

No.  I went off subscription and have no way of following up with my old VAR, but I tested it in 2014, same result.

 

I also posted a similar problem here http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Inventor-General/How-to-handle-a-basic-topology-change/m-p/4359463/hig...   No solution from anyone.

 

I tested the same scenario in Solidworks.  Not only does it update as it should, but I can delete a base sketch line, replace it with a spline, and it still updates fine.  A video of that was sent to the VAR.  No idea if they sent it to autodesk or not because they did not reply to that email.

Message 14 of 16
jumatuun
in reply to: stevec781

I still have the very same problem. How is it possible? Many years has passed by and nothing has been done to fix this problem.

Message 15 of 16
SBix26
in reply to: jumatuun

I downloaded @stevec781 's 2012 assembly from his original post.  I migrated the files to 2024, then copied new faces (associative) from the master part, redefined sketches and projections to the newly created faces, deleted the old no-longer-associative faces and everything works as expected.

 

I conclude, then, that nobody has ever identified what happened in the original assembly that broke the associativity, (or in any of the others that were posted in this topic).  There may still be a very elusive bug in the software, but it certainly works as expected some of the time, at least.

SBix26_1-1685573054082.png


Sam B

Inventor Pro 2024.0.1 | Windows 10 Home 22H2
autodesk-expert-elite-member-logo-1line-rgb-black.png

Message 16 of 16
johnsonshiue
in reply to: jumatuun

Hi! A few possibilities come to my mind. 1) The adaptive part is used in multiple assemblies. 2) The adaptive flag is not turned on. 3) One instance of the part is adaptive but other instances are not adaptive. 4) The Copy Object was not associative to begin with.

Please share the files in zip here. I would like to understand why Associative Copy Object does not work.

Many thanks!



Johnson Shiue (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com)
Software Test Engineer

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