AutoCAD 2002 Hangs (freeze's) when working on files over a network.

[Anonymous]

We currently are on Win XP with a peer to peer network. We use one computer
to store all our drawings on. The problem is, when we open files we get
random Hanging & freezing whilst we are working. This is totally
unnacceptable, and a real pain. Has anyone got any ideas?

Ive done some extensive research to find out whats happening and ive made
the following observations.

Autocad freezes for exactly 10 seconds when i restart the computer that host
the file, and then another 10 seconds after it reloads windows.
AutoCAD hangs when the computer that hosts the file reads/writes to the hard
drive.

It feels to me that AutoCAD checks/reads the file constantly and that it
hangs the whole program untill it gets a response.
Could it be something to do with windows' file locking feature
(Opportunistic File Locking) and that AutoCAD is making sure no-one else is
trying to write to the file? I have tryed to disable this on the File
serving computer and i managed to make the problem worse, but maybe there is
a way to disable AutoCAD from using it? I remember back to the days that
AutoCAD used lock files to make sure that no-one else could write to them
but they stopped doing it.

Well if anyone can shed any light on my situation i would be extremely
greatfull.

[Anonymous]

Programan wrote:
> We currently are on Win XP with a peer to peer network. We use one computer
> to store all our drawings on. The problem is, when we open files we get
> random Hanging & freezing whilst we are working. This is totally
> unnacceptable, and a real pain. Has anyone got any ideas?
>
> Ive done some extensive research to find out whats happening and ive made
> the following observations.
>
> Autocad freezes for exactly 10 seconds when i restart the computer that host
> the file, and then another 10 seconds after it reloads windows.

This sounds like their is some communication occurring between the client and the "server". I'm not
sure it is a good idea to reboot the file server whilst the client has drawings open on it, although
I assume the write should not occur until initiated by the User. What do you have the autosave
interval set to, and are there any directories in use for other reasons e.g. support paths, on the
file server?

As with all network issues it makes good sense to ensure that the latest service packs and NIC
drivers are on both the client and server.

> AutoCAD hangs when the computer that hosts the file reads/writes to the hard
> drive.

Are file writes to the server occurring at this point? If so, this might indicate overload on the
server itself so it denies requests to the client until these writes are complete. What is the
hardware specification of the server? What type of hard disks are used and how are they configured
in terms of partition and file system?

--
Mark Taylor
Product Support, EMEA
WW Support & Services, Autodesk
Discussion Q&A: http://www.autodesk.com/discussion

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mark, for your quick reply. Firstly I must reiterate, The pc holding
the files is not a dedicated server, with no server software, its just a
normal workstation that holds the files.
My Autosave is set at 15 mins but it is not autosaving thats causing the
problem; and all the AutoCAD support files are local and not on the
networked PC.
There are only 2 computers pulling the drawings off the networked computer
and there is definately no overloading as the files are only around 250KB
and the network is running at 100Mbits
The problem seems to be coming from AutoCAD only because the system does not
hang entirely, just the AutoCAD drawing environment. This is very
unproductive because i loose all mouse movement and selection boxes etc as
well as the command prompt.

Mark, is there anything you can tell me about AutoCAD 2002's file locking
features accross networks and maybe explain any processes that require file
access, BETWEEN file saving.

Once again, the problem occurres BETWEEN file saves and not during saves or
autosaves, and it is very evident that AutoCAD is trying to read the file on
the hard disk , almost constantly. This is very strange because i would
have thought that it would read all information from RAM.

Thanks


"Mark Taylor [Autodesk Support]" wrote in
message news:2A07FD8C0C8D707A711065EAA0335D0B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Programan wrote:
> > We currently are on Win XP with a peer to peer network. We use one
computer
> > to store all our drawings on. The problem is, when we open files we get
> > random Hanging & freezing whilst we are working. This is totally
> > unnacceptable, and a real pain. Has anyone got any ideas?
> >
> > Ive done some extensive research to find out whats happening and ive
made
> > the following observations.
> >
> > Autocad freezes for exactly 10 seconds when i restart the computer that
host
> > the file, and then another 10 seconds after it reloads windows.
>
> This sounds like their is some communication occurring between the client
and the "server". I'm not
> sure it is a good idea to reboot the file server whilst the client has
drawings open on it, although
> I assume the write should not occur until initiated by the User. What do
you have the autosave
> interval set to, and are there any directories in use for other reasons
e.g. support paths, on the
> file server?
>
> As with all network issues it makes good sense to ensure that the latest
service packs and NIC
> drivers are on both the client and server.
>
> > AutoCAD hangs when the computer that hosts the file reads/writes to the
hard
> > drive.
>
> Are file writes to the server occurring at this point? If so, this might
indicate overload on the
> server itself so it denies requests to the client until these writes are
complete. What is the
> hardware specification of the server? What type of hard disks are used and
how are they configured
> in terms of partition and file system?
>
> --
> Mark Taylor
> Product Support, EMEA
> WW Support & Services, Autodesk
> Discussion Q&A: http://www.autodesk.com/discussion
>
>

[Anonymous]

Programan wrote:
> Thanks Mark, for your quick reply. Firstly I must reiterate, The pc holding
> the files is not a dedicated server, with no server software, its just a
> normal workstation that holds the files.

Sure, I understand, hence I put server in quotes :o)

> My Autosave is set at 15 mins but it is not autosaving thats causing the
> problem; and all the AutoCAD support files are local and not on the
> networked PC.
> There are only 2 computers pulling the drawings off the networked computer
> and there is definately no overloading as the files are only around 250KB
> and the network is running at 100Mbits
> The problem seems to be coming from AutoCAD only because the system does not
> hang entirely, just the AutoCAD drawing environment. This is very
> unproductive because i loose all mouse movement and selection boxes etc as
> well as the command prompt.
>
> Mark, is there anything you can tell me about AutoCAD 2002's file locking
> features accross networks and maybe explain any processes that require file
> access, BETWEEN file saving.

When the file is opened:

1. A copy of the original file is made
2. AutoCAD uses this file for editing
3. The original drawing file is locked

When the file is saved:

1. The copy is saved under a new name
2. The lock is removed on the original file
3. The original file is deleted
4. The copy is renamed to the original file

Hopefully understanding this process might help you troubleshoot the issue. A couple of useful tools
in troubleshooting these type of issues are Task Manager and FILEMON (available from
http://www.sysinternals.com).

> Once again, the problem occurres BETWEEN file saves and not during saves or
> autosaves, and it is very evident that AutoCAD is trying to read the file on
> the hard disk , almost constantly. This is very strange because i would
> have thought that it would read all information from RAM.

I'm sure it is using memory principally, but it may access temporary files as well. Certainly at the
open, and save (including autosave) points it will access the file as discussed previously. What is
the TEMP environment variable pointing to? Again FILEMON may give some clues as to the issue, and
whether AutoCAD is the cause.

These are tricky issues to resolve via a newsgroup so it may be worth contacting your Reseller,
depending on your support arrangement.

--
Mark Taylor
Product Support, EMEA
WW Support & Services, Autodesk
Discussion Q&A: http://www.autodesk.com/discussion

[Anonymous]

Mark Taylor [Autodesk Support] wrote:
> I'm sure it is using memory principally, but it may access temporary files as well. Certainly at
> the open, and save (including autosave) points it will access the file as discussed previously.
> What is the TEMP environment variable pointing to? Again FILEMON may give some clues as to the
> issue, and whether AutoCAD is the cause.

Hi,

Just to add based on a recommendation from a colleague, we do not recommend that you reboot the
server with files open. When you reboot the machine which is servicing the file resource of an
active AutoCAD session on another machine you are "erasing" the file locks. Aside from the delay you
seem to be experiencing you are leaving yourself vulnerable to overwrite corruption and data loss.
We recommend that you close your editing session on a file residing on a remote machine prior to
rebooting that remote system.

--
Mark Taylor
Product Support, EMEA
WW Support & Services, Autodesk
Discussion Q&A: http://www.autodesk.com/discussion

[Anonymous]

Hi,
Yeah i understand where you are coming from, but its not intentional
rebooting on our part. Some times you cant help rebooting, especially when
installing software etc. after all, Windows doesn't have a very good track
record when it comes to rebooting.

Anyway, thank you for your help.


"Mark Taylor [Autodesk Support]" wrote in
message news:196451DE9AABAC386D189D7223995ACE@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Mark Taylor [Autodesk Support] wrote:
> > I'm sure it is using memory principally, but it may access temporary
files as well. Certainly at
> > the open, and save (including autosave) points it will access the file
as discussed previously.
> > What is the TEMP environment variable pointing to? Again FILEMON may
give some clues as to the
> > issue, and whether AutoCAD is the cause.
>
> Hi,
>
> Just to add based on a recommendation from a colleague, we do not
recommend that you reboot the
> server with files open. When you reboot the machine which is servicing the
file resource of an
> active AutoCAD session on another machine you are "erasing" the file
locks. Aside from the delay you
> seem to be experiencing you are leaving yourself vulnerable to overwrite
corruption and data loss.
> We recommend that you close your editing session on a file residing on a
remote machine prior to
> rebooting that remote system.
>
> --
> Mark Taylor
> Product Support, EMEA
> WW Support & Services, Autodesk
> Discussion Q&A: http://www.autodesk.com/discussion
>
>

[Anonymous]

Programan wrote:
> Yeah i understand where you are coming from, but its not intentional
> rebooting on our part. Some times you cant help rebooting, especially when
> installing software etc. after all, Windows doesn't have a very good track
> record when it comes to rebooting.

Sure, I understand about the rebooting. As a suggestion you might want to schedule events that might
involve reboots at the end of the day when the User's do not have drawings open, or schedule a time
when all User's close AutoCAD when you carry out server maintenance. Again I would strongly
recommend you do not reboot the server with drawings open.

--
Mark Taylor
Product Support, EMEA
WW Support & Services, Autodesk
Discussion Q&A: http://www.autodesk.com/discussion

[Anonymous]

hello,
I've read your conversation between Mark Taylor regarding temporary freezes in Acad 2002 when using files over a network.
I do not have the solution but would like to share my observations.
I manage a 60-pc + 1 server network, that uses Flexlm on the server with 31 floating licenses.
several times a day, all 31 users simultaneously experience the jittery mouse movement and freezes you describe. unfortunately Mark from Adesk could not answer in a more low-level fashion which network activity Autocad is generating between saves.
I was told by our Acad dealer that every 10 min each workstation reports back to the Flexlm license manager, during which a 150 KB datapackage is sent. (hardly enough to bring a PIII/1000 / 100Mbit server to it's knees)

1. I have put up a test situation with a second Flexlm server on the same network and configured some of the workstations to use that other server. the freezes still occured simultaneaously on all workstations.
2. some users thought that the freezes happened while the server was processing print jobs from other users (it shares about 10 printing devices). however during my tests there were no prints made.
3. I had one user save his .DWG to he local C: drive and than re-open it. he was thus workgin locally (apart from some config references to plot configfiles on the network)
still his pc frooze simultaneously with the others.
4. during daytime (60 people working, of which 31 acad), the freezes occur regularly, during a few seconds. at night when only 5-10 of the employees are doing overtime, the freezes never occur. however when the nightly backup starts on the server, users will invariably notice freezes, not during the entire backup (which takes /- 6 hours), but on and off. this is odd, as the server is continually busy reading/writing data from disk/to tape with the same intensity.

I am about to conclude that it must be as Mark suggests a general performance issue, but can not stop wondering what type of network activity it is that is able to bring ACad visually to a halt, while other Window apps (word, outlook, excel) keep on running along happily.

Please post any other tips/info you might find about this problem, I will also investigate further, and when I find a solution, I will post it here also

Regards,
Pat Erauw,
network support,
Belgium

[Anonymous]

Hi All,

This is an interesting thread for which I do not
have definitive answers either.  I do note at least one piece of
misinformation.  The license manager generates a packet once per minute in
each direction per application session.  This activity is still hardly
enough to load the license server or the network to the point of noticeable
performance drop with the user count you describe.  During these slow
downs, have you looked at performance meter at the workstation and server to see
what's busy?

jerry milana

Autodesk Professional Services

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"paterauw" <
href="mailto:pat.erauw@innet.be">pat.erauw@innet.be> wrote in message

href="news:f105e6a.6@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f105e6a.6@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

hello,

I've read your conversation between Mark Taylor regarding temporary
freezes in Acad 2002 when using files over a network.
I do not have the
solution but would like to share my observations.
I manage a 60-pc + 1
server network, that uses Flexlm on the server with 31 floating licenses.

several times a day, all 31 users simultaneously experience the jittery
mouse movement and freezes you describe. unfortunately Mark from Adesk could
not answer in a more low-level fashion which network activity Autocad is
generating between saves.
I was told by our Acad dealer that every 10 min
each workstation reports back to the Flexlm license manager, during which a
150 KB datapackage is sent. (hardly enough to bring a PIII/1000 / 100Mbit
server to it's knees)

1. I have put up a test situation with a second Flexlm server on the same
network and configured some of the workstations to use that other server. the
freezes still occured simultaneaously on all workstations.
2. some users
thought that the freezes happened while the server was processing print jobs
from other users (it shares about 10 printing devices). however during my
tests there were no prints made.
3. I had one user save his .DWG to he
local C: drive and than re-open it. he was thus workgin locally (apart from
some config references to plot configfiles on the network)
still his pc
frooze simultaneously with the others.
4. during daytime (60 people
working, of which 31 acad), the freezes occur regularly, during a few seconds.
at night when only 5-10 of the employees are doing overtime, the freezes never
occur. however when the nightly backup starts on the server, users will
invariably notice freezes, not during the entire backup (which takes /- 6
hours), but on and off. this is odd, as the server is continually busy
reading/writing data from disk/to tape with the same intensity.

I am about to conclude that it must be as Mark suggests a general
performance issue, but can not stop wondering what type of network activity it
is that is able to bring ACad visually to a halt, while other Window apps
(word, outlook, excel) keep on running along happily.

Please post any other tips/info you might find about this problem, I will
also investigate further, and when I find a solution, I will post it here also

Regards,
Pat Erauw,
network support,

Belgium

[Anonymous]

jerry,
thanks for your reaction. I will do some more tests (using filemon, task manager etc.) and observations and post them here subsequently.

[Anonymous]

Hi,
even though you might think it ridiculous.... check if you have any link
files in your shared server-directories... *.LNK--- just an idea! Also check
the same thing on the affected workstations (the acad-support and plotter
support pahts--

/Petri

"paterauw" wrote in message
news:f105e6a.8@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> jerry,
> thanks for your reaction. I will do some more tests (using filemon, task
manager etc.) and observations and post them here subsequently.
>

[Anonymous]

hi petri,

yes, there is one .LNK (shortcut to add-a-plotter wizard) on a network path where our .pc3 files are stored.
please explain... what are you thinking of ? how can this affect responsiveness for networked Acad users ?

patrick

[Anonymous]

Hi,

if the lnk file was copied from a workstation not always on-line, all the
other workstations will be looking for the original workstation because the
lnk file has the address of the exe file looking something like this (Target
line):

"\\originalworkstation\C:\Program Files\AutoCAD 2002\addplwiz.exe"

/Petri

"paterauw" wrote in message
news:f105e6a.10@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> hi petri,
> yes, there is one .LNK (shortcut to add-a-plotter wizard) on a network
path where our .pc3 files are stored.
> please explain... what are you thinking of ? how can this affect
responsiveness for networked Acad users ?
>
> patrick
>
>

[Anonymous]

petri,
the Target line referred to just "c:\program files\Acad2000\adplwiz.exe" without a workstation name.
what is odd is that this directory does not exist on the server. I will delete the shortcut anyway it because it has no use being on the server.
I doublt this will solve our problem but thanks for your tip.

[cglaspie]

Did u ever solve this problem? 

We have experienced the same problem and it is a problem that we didnt use to have a year ago.  Everyones autocad "hangs" for a random amount of time at what seems like random intervals.  Some days it is more than others.  Only Autocad hangs and the computer is NOT frozen.  We have about 8 cad machines, without ADLM.   I am ussing a Buffalo 2TB NAS for our storage, which I though might be the culprit, as far as handling all the traffic.  But I have to rule that out because nothing else freezes except ACad.  I disabled SheetSet Manager autoupdates which "seemed" to help but the problem still exists.  I am planning to try filtering out DWG files from our anti-virus scanning.