Tackling the Materials Dialog

[lure23]

There is a video tutorial on Youtube on applying materials, but it really only touches the surface.

Now I'm trying to understand all of it, and find a workflow that suits my needs. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem simple, elegant or intuitive at all.

If anyone has already made a blog article or knows of other material than the above video, please mention. I'm thinking of making yet another "Asko's Analysis" on the Materials Dialog, but... well. Would just prefer to have a product that initially opens its heart to me.

My use cases are:

- finding a suitable visual material and customizing it to my specific use

- tagging those materials so that I will essentially get my own library of materials I'm actually going to use in the project

That's pretty much it. Should be simple? 😃

Ron, I think you had done this earlier. Any practical hints?

[lure23]

Versions:Fusion 360 1.8.604, OS X 10.8.5

Making sense of Materials

The Fusion 360 materials handling is complex. Very complex. So complex it seems daunting to even start doing anything, once one sees that dialog. It's unnecessarily complex.

Anyways, I'm now taking the plunge and trying to make sense out of it all. This is not a feature request - this is simply mapping what's there, now, and how it all ties together. (also, I think I found some bugs on the way) 

Getting to materials is easy. Right click on anything, including the browser elements, and you're right there.

Physical tab has physical materials (stuff that matters for simulations). 

Visual tab has materials used for visualization.

First observation

Wouldn't it make sense to have the physical materials as a superset of the only visual ones? Now they are placed completely separately, and physical materials don't seem to be listed as Visuals at all (though they do have visual characteristics to them). I would argue this is not a place for two tabs, but one (with a filter for filtering in/out those materials carrying also physical properties).

i.e. here we have 'Gold' on the 'Physical' tab.

'Visual' tab does not have 'Gold' - it has 'Gold - Metal', which is a less reddish tinge of gold.

 

However, when using the preview What You See may be very different from the palette preview.

Here, Physical / Gold:

This is yet a third tinge of gold. 

( Display settings: Realistic, Grey Room )

Lesson #1

- Do not trust the preview balls / objects

- Keep the object you are changing material for visible (it's the best preview)

Also, give some time for the object preview to happen (on my 2009 Mac Mini it may take 2..3 seconds before the update is drawn). On faster machines (those used for filming the tutorials) the preview looks instantaneous.

Widgets on the dialog

Let's see the dialog more closely.

A - Breadcrumb trail

These used to be fashionable, but I don't really know what added value it brings. It duplicates the tree view to the left.

Removing this would reduce complexity. Personally, I prefer an expandable tree view over a breadcrumb trail, because it simply gives a better overall view of what's available. 

Breadcrumb trails are good when there's not much pixel space to use, or the choices are infinite (as in web URLs). Here, neither of those apply. Imho the tree view is the thing.

B Left

The left one "shows/hides the library tree". It's unfortunate that it has been placed so far from the tree itself. No-one would come here for it. There's better methods for showing/hiding side panels, and I'm pretty sure Fusion 360 itself would use them elsewhere.

Yes, the Browser:

 shown

 hidden

Shouldn't this be the way to show/hide the materials tree, as well? (of course)

Coming to think of it, it could be used on the main Fusion 360 screen itself, eliminating the 'Materials' dialog completely. (But that's worth another article.)

B Right

The second icon is for this:

I've crossed out the seemingly unnecessary pieces. 

- Library selection is already possible via the tree, and the breadcrumb trail. This would make a third way. Totally unnecessary.

- Thumbnail Size is already (at 64x64) rather too small than too big. These things should (in the Internet era) scale automatically, based on how much screen estate the user gives to the dialog. This is 1990's design (it hurts me write design - what I do mean is lack of design 🙂 ).

- View Type

Let's see how this changes the selection:

Thumbnail view

List View

Text View

( The Text View column widths were unusable as defaults - here they are widened so we can actually read the text. )

What does 'Text View' offer that 'List View' doesn't? Nothing.

I can see both Thumbnail and List being useful, but that's it. And they could possibly be given their own drop-down icon instead of being bundled in "B Right".

Likewise, Sorting options can make sense. But it's better to have a direct icon for them than the bundling.

Oh, btw, using List View and enlarging the Thumbnail Size to 64x64 gives this:

That can be useful. And it makes Thumbnail Size meaningful (but only with regard to List View, not otherwise).

Also, I would appreciate a small / medium / large setting instead of the pixel counts being visible (Large being i.e. 128x128 - larger than any of the currently available sizes).

Btw, in List View one can change the sorting order also by the arrow in the row titles. In fact, one can set the sorting to either ascending or descending (why, or why would anyone need that?) In Thumbnail View one can only sort via the "B right" icon.

This is kind of cool, but kind of unnecessary as well. If sorting is needed, I would do it like this:

Both of those would be drop-down lists in text form. If wanted, it could say "View as Thumbnail▾ size M▾ sort by Color▾".

Now, how to actually edit any of these things? (we're leaving C and D for later)

Customizing materials

There is a little lock icon next to the Autodesk Library folder. I hope it means I cannot mess up my default materials, no matter what I do.

Also, it seems I cannot unlock that folder at all (i.e. clicking on the lock has no effect). Understandable.

Let's select some material, i.e. the cool Metallic Paint. (yes, the picture is very relevant here:)

Let's push that.

Now this is slightly confusing.

We were supposed to be operating under a locked material library, and now we have an editing pane open.

Also, if you look at 'Favourites' at this point, the material is NOT there (though we were promised by the tooltip that it "adds material to favorites". What's going on??

Let's change something.

Clicking the little menu arrow next to the 'Color' (currently red) pops up this:

This actually seems like a rabbit hole to Wonderland. Each of the entries has its own editing options, I put them here simply to share the overwhelming.

That's Hi-Fi.

Two of the panels use a scroll bar, and many of the sections are collapsed. There's a lot of stuff here. 

And I'm so happy I don't have to look at any of it.

There is one thing that could be fixed, though.

The "Edit Tiles…" (or Waves, or …) is simply a way to edit what you right now have selected. Having it in that menu is totally wrong (or at least misleading). It's already presented as the "Edit…" link and that's logical, intuitive. Keep it there. Remove from the menu.

Another slighter issue is that the screen starts looking really, really messy now. We've come down these levels:

Edit

Material

Edit Material(the right pane)

Texture Editor

By default, Fusion 360 seems to be placing the Texture Editor on top of the Edit Material pane. Logically, it should be a pane of the pane. Repositioning the windows makes the layout a bit more pleasing, and Fusion 360 remembers the positioning. I guess this is the best way this deep options can be implemented.

So, now I've managed to mess Metallic Paint into a wood texture. Let's see what happens.

( Small note to Autodesk coders before we proceed:

That tooltip is for the triangle. We do know that those are used for expanding and collapsing entries. If it's your boss, tell them there's better things to do. If it's you… let me tell your boss you have better things to do. Stop cluttering the UI with UNNECESSARY TOOLTIPS. You could…. like… make this document so I wouldn't need to? 😄 )

Now, which should we press:

( "Closes the dialog" is actually technically wrong. It closes the editing pane, whereas the materials dialog remains open. )

OK

This finally adds the material to our Favourites list. Pheeew. We did not edit the actual Autodesk Library material though - I must say - the UI certainly gave me that feeling!

Metallic Paint in Autodesk Library (unchanged)

Metallic Paint in Favourites

( btw, isn't the 'Favourites' a bit misleading? These are the materials I use - they are 'My Library'. Not necessarily my favorites. The person who designed this must have used a web browser a lot? )

To fix the above mentioned "it feels like I'm editing Autodesk Library" situation, I would suggest the following:

- when pressing the  button Fusion 360 would already there and then make a copy of the material into the Favourites (or My Library?) and show the material there, instead of showing it within the Autodesk Library as now. This would make the internal workflow visually obvious to the user.

Apply

What would have happened, had we pushed that button, editing the Autodesk Library material? 

Let's try.

Hmmm… I wonder if it's asking this over the Autodesk or the Favourites/My Library material. 

Seems also Apply is always changing our local copy. So… is there some difference between pressing 'OK' and 'Apply', when editing a material from Autodesk Library? 

I don't think so.

If not, both buttons should not be there. Only OK and Cancel.

If the difference is that Apply leaves the 'dialog' (meaning the pane) open whereas OK closes it, too much. We know how to open and close the pane with << and >> icon. Give us OK & Cancel or Cancel & Apply.

Editing one's own materials

For the first, you can get to edit a material either by the 'pen' icon or simply by expanding the editing pane to the right (the >> icon). The pen icon is not really well behaving (i.e. it should hide if I'm already editing that particular material). Also, it's unnecessary. I think the UI would be clearer by simply having the << / >> pane icon and allowing one to edit the selected material in the pane.

Both of these UI components work, and both of them are enough to get the job done. Why have two? It takes us time to get the hang of it - and it clutters the UI.

Now, let's make a change to one of the materials.

I modified Metallic Paint and pressed Apply. 

What I was expecting is a fast, that's-it change to the material. This dialog is essentially saying 'do you want to do a copy of Metallic Paint'? It also allows me to cancel my pressing 'Apply'. Too much.

I think this will slow people down. I would prefer a separate copy feature and Apply just doing what I'm telling it to do - with no questions asked. Notice that this dialog will occur every single time I'm editing any material. Too much babysitting.

What's more alarming (actually - a bug) is what happens when I press the 'Replace':

Or rather, what does not happen. The 'Tint' checkbox I edited is back. No changes done. What the hell?

Same thing with editing any properties. Which means - I actually cannot customize my materials!  The only way to edit a material is to do it when modifying the Autodesk Library one… Was this ever tested? Like… ever?

Oh, btw, also double-clicking the material line opens the pane for editing (good).

And right clicking the material line gives you this:

This is where you can do the copy of the material if the 'Keep both / Cancel / Replace' dialog were to be scrapped.

The 'Rename' feature is rather superfluous (I would prefer being able to click on the name and edit it there - as in Fusion 360 Browser UI). Sometimes 'Rename' seems to be disabled for no apparent reason.

The 'Add to ▸' remains a mystery for me. It's enabled, but there's no submenu coming when I click it. Faulty.

Also, now I got a 'Add to Favourites & Edit' button at the editing pane. Only… the material *is* already in the 'Favourites' (aka My Library) and I *am* already editing it. Weird. 

Is any of this useful?

No, not really. The one thing I would like to do which is modifying my materials that are in the Favourites collection I cannot do. It's like a UI proto. But it's shipping.

Refreshing the Autodesk Library

I got this up, pressing the little refresh icon that had come by the Autodesk Library.

Isn't the ordering of those buttons a bit funny? 'No / Cancel / Yes'.

The idea here goes that the default one is first (but it's already highlighted, and I actually want to update since I pressed that refresh icon). What's the difference between 'No' and 'Cancel'? A simple 'OK / Cancel' will do here ('OK' first).

Ideally, if I may, it could show me the changes that are upcoming (i.e. which new materials, changes to which materials). That would be useful info.

Back to editing a material

Seems pressing 'OK' works and pressing 'Apply' works *once* after 'OK' has been used prior to that. So use 'OK' only if you're wanting edits to remain.

This pinpoints *exactly* why it's such a bad habit to do multiple ways within the UI. It's not only confusing for us users, but it multiplies the testing necessary to prove that the product is working. Here, I'm pretty sure, testers have used the 'OK' button and never noticed 'Apply' is faulty. Maybe there's a test step for 'Apply' but not for consecutive applies. Keeping the UI simple and "one way only" (with exception of neat shortcuts s.a. double clicking to open the pane) is good for all.

[Oceanconcepts]

Asko,

The Learning section has an entry on Exchange Materials under Dashboard Resources:  http://fusion360.autodesk.com/resources

I had problems with Fusion losing the materials library after a hard crash on the Mac.  But I have just barely played a bit with editing materials.  I have created a personal library of materials, as that seemed to survive crashes where I lost the downloaded Autodesk materials. But mostly it's just been to keep parts distinct as I work on designs. 

The organization of the Exchange Materials library is unclear to me- there seem to be a lot of redundancies as you work through the categories, and I don't always know if I have previously downloaded something or not. .  I've had some problems getting downloads of multiple materials to work, but haven't tried in a while now. It's really a part of the program I have not explored much. 

Ron

[haughec]

Asko,

In my 10+ years of software design, this is the most comprehensive and explanatory piece of written feedback I've seen from any user.  While it's unfortunate that this feedback is warranted, your input is just awesome.  I'll stop short of replying to each point you made because I feel that they all represent valid concerns.  

I agree that the Materials experience is in need of attention, and your feedback will help us focus on issues that need to be addressed.  Know that a number of us are reviwing your comments and beginning to discuss solutions.  Thank you for taking the time to write this up.

On a related note, the Material UI will now display a list of materials used in the active design in today's release.  It's a small step, but a good enhancement.

Thanks again.

[lure23]

Thanks for all the thanks.

I now went through the missing C and D icons, Adjust tab and Download Materials tab. But I won't be posting it since I wasn't able to figure out anything. I can send the doc privately if someone wants to have a look.