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big_red_frog
Posts: 243
Registered: ‎03-02-2013
Accepted Solution

Need help with Model Errors

311 Views, 13 Replies
09-08-2013 03:42 PM

Hi There,

 

One of the components of my design has lost its intergrity in some manner. I have been doing many edits to thin the model, as well as make it more suitable for printing, minimizing support etc.

 

Although it appears to be a solid body in the browser "LeftJowl", some slice body operations fail unexpectedly, and worse, if I mirror it, the mirrored body is no longer a solid body, but a mesh, see "leftJowl (1)"

 

I have placed the archived component including the mirrored mesh in a public dropbox at

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77527281/MirrorIsAMesh.f3d

 

Unfortunately the forum caps as 1.5 Meg :-( for attachments.

 

I would really like to recover the integrity of this component, as I expect to work it further.

 

If there are any tools withing Fusion to help identify the problem, please dont hesitate to point me at that, I am more than happy to fix it if I get nudged in the right direction.

 

Unfortunately just being able to deal with the STL post process, leaves the model itself in a bit of a dead end, so I would very much like to be able to get it back to sanity.

 

I know the STL file from the good body, definately has problems with faces I cant see in fusion, or makerware, but appear in the print, although netfab successfully cleans that up.

 

Thanks in anticipation...

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schneik
Posts: 661
Registered: ‎04-05-2003

Re: Need help with Model Errors

09-08-2013 06:15 PM in reply to: big_red_frog

Here is a repaired model.

 

I did three things.

 

  1. I dissolved the mirror feature to stop Fusion from tying to apply some edits to both sides of the jowl.
  2. I switched to the Patch workspace and under Inspect panel I ran Validate on both jowl bodies using the default settings. This repaired a few surfaces.
  3. I dug around and discovered there are several cells or closed volumes in the solid. This is why the mirror showed up as a surface. In the patch workspace I deleted the face below to find that there are more faces inside. So I kept deleting to get a clean open loop.

ssp_temp_capture copy.png

 

To fix this was pretty easy. I used Patch to create a new surface. Then I Stitched the two surfaces back together. I did loose the lofted area shown above but you can recreate that...

 

Otherwise it is a valid good solid. I repeated the operations on the right side. 

 

 

File uploaded here.

 

 

Kevin Schneider


15" Macbook Pro Retina - OSX 10.9 in Portland, Oregon


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*Expert Elite*
big_red_frog
Posts: 243
Registered: ‎03-02-2013

Re: Need help with Model Errors

09-09-2013 08:16 AM in reply to: schneik

Thanks greatly for this.

 

I need to try myself if I can recover the Left Jowl in the master desgin so I can understand and leverage the workflow in the future.

 

Right Jowl will always be a last minute mirror as I go to print, so I generally delete it each time, until I have a new Left I want to clone.

 

Hopefully I can recreate your success!

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big_red_frog
Posts: 243
Registered: ‎03-02-2013

Re: Need help with Model Errors

09-10-2013 09:16 PM in reply to: big_red_frog

Again, thanks for the help on this, could you clarify how you

 

"I dug around and discovered there are several cells or closed volumes in the solid."

 

Thanks.

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big_red_frog
Posts: 243
Registered: ‎03-02-2013

Re: Need help with Model Errors

09-10-2013 09:41 PM in reply to: big_red_frog

OK, this is where I get stuck.

 

Using Patch mode, I deleted the loft I had in this area, and cleaned up some other bad surfaces.

 

Then using patch command, I created the two patch surfaces as per image, using the closed loops.

 

I had to flip the normal on the one, but they otherwise look like a good starting point.

 

They get created as new open mesh bodies in the browser.

 

However, I cant see how to join them back into my main body "left Jowl"

 

If I select stitch, I can select the grey bodies, but I cannot select the red "leftJowl"

 

I am sure I am missing something.

 

If I can learn how to arbitarily delete and patch surfaces like this, of my solid bodies, I will be able to work twice as fast on what is otherwise difficult additive / subtract methods I have been using to get this far on cleaning my model up. Which shows how much I have to learn!

 

Thanks in anticipation once more.

 

Struggle.png

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Board Manager
schneik
Posts: 661
Registered: ‎04-05-2003

Re: Need help with Model Errors

09-11-2013 07:55 AM in reply to: big_red_frog
So I see in the Bodies folder that leftJowl is shown with a grey cylinder icon showing that it thinks it is a solid still. Can you hide Body57 and 58 and ensure that you there are not faces beneath them?
You can't pick leftJowl as the stitch command only allows the selection of open surfaces. You are so close to having this...

Kevin Schneider


15" Macbook Pro Retina - OSX 10.9 in Portland, Oregon


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big_red_frog
Posts: 243
Registered: ‎03-02-2013

Re: Need help with Model Errors

09-11-2013 10:38 AM in reply to: schneik

I dont think this is the case, in that when I have those mesh faces hidden, which I have done so while they exist, as well as the same effect before I used the patch command to fill the open loops, after, I had deleted offending faces in the leftJowl body, I could see into the object, including right through far side faces where the normals were away from me, along with their mesh.

 

So I know that leftJowl is not a solid, I should never be able to see the back side of a face normal if that were the case.

 

Somehow, fusion is confused, ( or of course me ) that leftJowl is integral when it is not.

 

Hence many other functions that dont work properly any more like body slice etc.

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big_red_frog
Posts: 243
Registered: ‎03-02-2013

Re: Need help with Model Errors

09-11-2013 04:04 PM in reply to: big_red_frog

Hi There,

 

I tore back more of the model which needed cleaning anyway, to see if I could get things moving, but I still have a full solid body icon for the main component, and cant select leftJowl when I want to stitch it adn Body58 together to make what should be a solid.

 

I really want to achieve this, both to be able to patch repair let this, and also because this project is important to me!

 

Image below.

 

I have also archived this component in its own design and placed on a public dropbox at

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77527281/leftJowlRepair.f3d

 

Again I am in your debt for even looking at this, Help!

 

struggle2.jpg

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big_red_frog
Posts: 243
Registered: ‎03-02-2013

Re: Need help with Model Errors

09-12-2013 04:51 PM in reply to: big_red_frog

OK, now I am amazed and confused.

 

I have given up on my local copy of the jowl object, as it seems broken, not wanting to admit that a body with a removed face is no longer a solid, leaving me unable to stich my patches. Also there was an aggressive memory leak as I manipulated the object as I could see the memory usage climbing steadily, and performance dropping to unusable. hopefully you can use my last instance as a case study to see if there is somethign that can be fixed.

 

So I downloaded your fixed version and deleted the mirrored instance.

 

Firstly I can see that deleting a face in your file now immeadiately switchs the browers indication from solid to mesh.

 

Secondly it is fast and smooth.

 

Thirdly, I accidently deleted an offending face in sculpt mode rather than patch, and the tool automagically filled the face removing other dependant face issues, and deleting the result I can see it did a clean job as there are no artifacts underneath, so thats great, if this is how sculpt is supposed to work, my work just got so much easier!

 

Worth noting I hold that the role of software is to automate the mundane, if this works as intended and as I just experienced, well done!

 

Now I just need to work it forward a little and then see if I can insert back into my master assembly.

 

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*Expert Elite*
big_red_frog
Posts: 243
Registered: ‎03-02-2013

Re: Need help with Model Errors

09-12-2013 05:03 PM in reply to: big_red_frog

OK, trying to delete faces with sculpt seems to have a high chance of generating a crash, which are being reported against my email, but at least I see this as an improvement, as the behaviour otherwise seems predictable.

 

How far off an update are we?

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