What do I buy?

[Anonymous]

I'm learning both 2 & 3D Cad, Viz & Photoshop. I want to buy a system that I can build upon in the future. I think I need a 256 video card (GeForce6600?), 1 gig memory (at least?), & a Pentium D? Pentium4, or Anthlon?? Which one?
Am I on the right track? Is there anything else I should be looking for?

[Anonymous]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 04:23:59 +0000, ingrid <> wrote:

>I'm learning both 2 & 3D Cad, Viz & Photoshop. I want to buy a system that I can build upon in the future. I think I need a 256 video card (GeForce6600?), 1 gig memory (at least?), & a Pentium D? Pentium4, or Anthlon?? Which one?
>Am I on the right track? Is there anything else I should be looking for?

If you really want a future proof machine that will adequately handle what you
are going to throw at it, I recommend something like this as a starting point:

Dual-core AMD x64 "X2" CPU (e.g., the X2 4400)
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe (or any board based on the Nforce4 chipset)
2GB RAM (2x1GB modules, not 4x512)
nVidia Quadro FX 1400 PCI-E graphics card (256MB)
Alternate: GeForceFX 6800 or 7800
Hitachi 7200RPM hard drive
Plextor SATA DVD-RW
400W power supply

The choice of graphics card is somewhat arbitrary; in architectural modeling
your GC is actually a lot less important than CPU and RAM, because the big
ticket time waster - rendering - is almost 100% CPU dependent. Video RAM size
determines how much memory can be reserved for textures on the board; in most
cases this is important in games running at 1600x1200, but not so much in
content creation/modeling.

But you want something with enough oomph to give you fast flat-shaded or Gouraud
3D orbiting without tanking, and that requires a beefy GPU. Almost any decent
"gaming" card will do this effectively (e.g., a 6600 or 6800) but the Quadro has
some additional benefits and tweaked drivers for VIZ, which pretty much fly.

On the other hand, if you want top of the line, I could recommend an AMD Dual
Core Opteron 875-based system using the nForce 2200 Pro chipset motherboard
(like a Tyan Thunder K8WE or SuperMicro motherboard).

Even in a single CPU configuration, the dual core AMD CPU just grabs the Pentium
chips by the collar, throws them off the monkey bars, beats the crap out of
them, takes their lunch money and sends 'em home crying to mommy.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

Ingrid-

Writing this shortly after Matt Stachoni's comments, so take my comments
with a grain of salt, take Matt's with a few cookies and a huge glass of
milk.

Do you have a budget? I assume a smaller one as you want to build it up
later. Seeing that we have a 64-bit operating system coming in the near
future, I would go with a processor that will do 64-bit calculations.
(Athlon64 or Intel EM64T) The 6600 (256MB) would be an entry level card but
a good start on a small budget. If your planning to build on this in the
future I would go ahead and build the system too, now is the best time to
learn about the hardware. It will save you some coin now and give you a
better understanding of your system for future upgrades.

Develop your system based on the maximum amount of RAM (ie .. 2 x1 GB) you
can afford and a good motherboard. I prefer Athlon but have educated myself
more on them too so I'm biased.

You could start by educating yourself on other people's PC builds by looking
at their "wish lists" on Newegg.com. I've built entire systems with
components all purchased from their store. Great prices and great inventory.
Like this one:
http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/WishList/WishDetail.asp?position=HISTORY&ID=1510580&WishListTitle=Tojo_KN1-Extreme%20AMD

A friend of mine just built a system very similar to Matt's suggested specs
for about $1800 using the dual core 4400+ toledo processor and 2x 6800 GT
video cards. Not including the $200 water cooled cooling system : )

hope that gets you started and wasn't more than the answer you expected.

Tojo


wrote in message news:4897046@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm learning both 2 & 3D Cad, Viz & Photoshop. I want to buy a system that
I can build upon in the future. I think I need a 256 video card
(GeForce6600?), 1 gig memory (at least?), & a Pentium D? Pentium4, or
Anthlon?? Which one?
Am I on the right track? Is there anything else I should be looking for?

[Anonymous]

Ingrid,

Sounds like you are on the right tract. I somewhat agree with the other
comments, but would want some more information before deciding on what to
buy? What are you going to do after you learn the programs? architecture?
civil engineering? mechanical? photo editing? 2D electrical schematics?
The future application will determine a lot. When will you be finished with
learning and ready to go to production? How much do you have to spend now
versus in the future? We find that a three year old computer is cheaper to
replace than upgrade. They are still fine for low end office work, but not
for CAD and other high-end uses. Will your machine be part of a network or
a stand alone? If you are going to school, are you sure you want a desktop?
Would a laptop for now be a better investment and then buy a high end
desktop in a few years?

I would make sure you leave open memory slots by buying a single one GB
memory module, not two 512s. Depending on where you buy your computer, it
can be cheaper to buy memory somewhere else other than where you get the
base machine, even if you get the additional at the same time. Be sure to
have at least a 4GB max RAM capability.

For some applications, like civil, a very fast hard drive will be useful,
but only if you are not networked to a server for the data. Given the cost
differences, we are looking at three 10K RPM SATA drives in a raid five
configuration, but we use a peer to peer network because of our size (one
engineer, one tech, one secretary). The option would have been SCSI, but
that was about double the cost.

One of the best hardware investments we have made was to buy very large
monitors (20" viewable). They have lasted through many computers. Dual
monitors is something to consider in the future. Be sure to get two DVI
outputs on the video card. Other things to think about are backup
capabilities, scanning, printing, networking, wi-fi.

--
Brad Yarger

wrote in message news:4897046@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm learning both 2 & 3D Cad, Viz & Photoshop. I want to buy a system that
I can build upon in the future. I think I need a 256 video card
(GeForce6600?), 1 gig memory (at least?), & a Pentium D? Pentium4, or
Anthlon?? Which one?
Am I on the right track? Is there anything else I should be looking for?

[Anonymous]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:54:11 +0000, Matt Stachoni
wrote:

>Dual-core AMD x64 "X2" CPU (e.g., the X2 4400)
>Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe (or any board based on the Nforce4 chipset)
>2GB RAM (2x1GB modules, not 4x512)
>nVidia Quadro FX 1400 PCI-E graphics card (256MB)
> Alternate: GeForceFX 6800 or 7800
>Hitachi 7200RPM hard drive
>Plextor SATA DVD-RW
>400W power supply


Oh, yeah - tack on two Dell FP2001 20" LCD screens and a copy of Ultramon
(www.ultramon.com)

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

Hey Matt;

Can I interest you in a 10K rpm Raptor, instead of that Hitachi?

My home machine:

AMD64 3200+ Socket 754
512MB RAM (to become 1GB this week)
ECS K8M800 MOBO
36GB Raptor
128MB Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 PCI
WINXP Pro SP2

Opens a 49MB contour intensive Civil topography DWG in Land Enabled Map 5 in
9 seconds - my benchmark.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT3/CD3
IntelP4-2.4
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:4897835@discussion.autodesk.com...
On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:54:11 +0000, Matt Stachoni
wrote:

>Dual-core AMD x64 "X2" CPU (e.g., the X2 4400)
>Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe (or any board based on the Nforce4 chipset)
>2GB RAM (2x1GB modules, not 4x512)
>nVidia Quadro FX 1400 PCI-E graphics card (256MB)
> Alternate: GeForceFX 6800 or 7800
>Hitachi 7200RPM hard drive
>Plextor SATA DVD-RW
>400W power supply


Oh, yeah - tack on two Dell FP2001 20" LCD screens and a copy of Ultramon
(www.ultramon.com)

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:07:52 +0000, Don Reichle
wrote:

>Can I interest you in a 10K rpm Raptor, instead of that Hitachi?

Not really (totally my personal preference).

While I know it's fastfastfast, I don't think the extra RPMs are worth the noise
or heat, especially in a multi-drive PC, which is what I have in my home
machines.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

>My home machine:
>
>AMD64 3200+ Socket 754
>512MB RAM (to become 1GB this week)
>ECS K8M800 MOBO
>36GB Raptor
>128MB Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 PCI
>WINXP Pro SP2
>
>Opens a 49MB contour intensive Civil topography DWG in Land Enabled Map 5 in
>9 seconds - my benchmark.

[Anonymous]

My brother-in-law helped me with the install of the AMD64, and his comment
was along these lines:
"I thought Raptors were noisy?"
I honestly can't figure where they got this reputation. The HVAC system in
the office I'm sitting in at the moment is on the order of 10-20 times more
noisy than my Raptor.

Heat? I've not put a thermometer on it, but the BIOS has a gauge in it, and
it hovers around 45 degrees, which I take for Celsius.
45 degree Celsius = 113 degree Fahrenheit

You're correct about the Fast-Fast-Fast.

Where do the instructions reside for the OS?
The Hard Drive.

Does having a faster HD speed up everything about the OS?
YES!

My waiting time is almost non-existent. The machine is always waiting on me.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT3/CD3
IntelP4-2.4
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:4898914@discussion.autodesk.com...
On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:07:52 +0000, Don Reichle
wrote:

>Can I interest you in a 10K rpm Raptor, instead of that Hitachi?

Not really (totally my personal preference).

While I know it's fastfastfast, I don't think the extra RPMs are worth the
noise
or heat, especially in a multi-drive PC, which is what I have in my home
machines.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

>My home machine:
>
>AMD64 3200+ Socket 754
>512MB RAM (to become 1GB this week)
>ECS K8M800 MOBO
>36GB Raptor
>128MB Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 PCI
>WINXP Pro SP2
>
>Opens a 49MB contour intensive Civil topography DWG in Land Enabled Map 5
>in
>9 seconds - my benchmark.

[Anonymous]

Well, that's great - my experiences with 10K RPM drives have been, shall we say,
less than whisper quiet.

I guess I just don't stress the HD subsystem enough with my work that I would
opt for such HDs, and my 3D models open fast enough for me.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com


On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:11:39 +0000, Don Reichle
wrote:

>My brother-in-law helped me with the install of the AMD64, and his comment
>was along these lines:
>"I thought Raptors were noisy?"
>I honestly can't figure where they got this reputation. The HVAC system in
>the office I'm sitting in at the moment is on the order of 10-20 times more
>noisy than my Raptor.
>
>Heat? I've not put a thermometer on it, but the BIOS has a gauge in it, and
>it hovers around 45 degrees, which I take for Celsius.
>45 degree Celsius = 113 degree Fahrenheit
>
>You're correct about the Fast-Fast-Fast.
>
>Where do the instructions reside for the OS?
>The Hard Drive.
>
>Does having a faster HD speed up everything about the OS?
>YES!
>
>My waiting time is almost non-existent. The machine is always waiting on me.

[Anonymous]

Sorry you got the lemon. 🙂

I almost feel guilty - almost.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT3/CD3
IntelP4-2.4
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:4899392@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well, that's great - my experiences with 10K RPM drives have been, shall we
say,
less than whisper quiet.

I guess I just don't stress the HD subsystem enough with my work that I
would
opt for such HDs, and my 3D models open fast enough for me.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com


On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:11:39 +0000, Don Reichle
wrote:

>My brother-in-law helped me with the install of the AMD64, and his comment
>was along these lines:
>"I thought Raptors were noisy?"
>I honestly can't figure where they got this reputation. The HVAC system in
>the office I'm sitting in at the moment is on the order of 10-20 times more
>noisy than my Raptor.
>
>Heat? I've not put a thermometer on it, but the BIOS has a gauge in it, and
>it hovers around 45 degrees, which I take for Celsius.
>45 degree Celsius = 113 degree Fahrenheit
>
>You're correct about the Fast-Fast-Fast.
>
>Where do the instructions reside for the OS?
>The Hard Drive.
>
>Does having a faster HD speed up everything about the OS?
>YES!
>
>My waiting time is almost non-existent. The machine is always waiting on
>me.

[Anonymous]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:04:55 +0000, Don Reichle
wrote:

>Sorry you got the lemon. 🙂
>
>I almost feel guilty - almost.

Well, they were 10K RPM SCSI drives, somewhat on the dull side of cutting edge.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

In the case of the Raptor, I feel fortunate that being on the cutting edge,
I've experienced very little blood-letting. 🙂

I'm more than pleased with it's performance, as you can probably tell.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT3/CD3
IntelP4-2.4
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:4899493@discussion.autodesk.com...
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:04:55 +0000, Don Reichle
wrote:

>Sorry you got the lemon. 🙂
>
>I almost feel guilty - almost.

Well, they were 10K RPM SCSI drives, somewhat on the dull side of cutting
edge.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

There are probably more of us that use it that don't know. My HP XW4200
came with a Raptor in it. It is still a bit slow, so we are looking at
going with two in a raid setup. I wanted three in a raid 5 setup, but found
out that we don't have the room for it. Still, with nightly backups
stability should not be a major problem. As for noise, I have not noticed
it nearly as much as the AC, ceiling fan or laser printer. Actually, most
of the noise around here walks on two feet!

Brad

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:4899557@discussion.autodesk.com...
In the case of the Raptor, I feel fortunate that being on the cutting edge,
I've experienced very little blood-letting. 🙂

I'm more than pleased with it's performance, as you can probably tell.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT3/CD3
IntelP4-2.4
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:4899493@discussion.autodesk.com...
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:04:55 +0000, Don Reichle
wrote:

>Sorry you got the lemon. 🙂
>
>I almost feel guilty - almost.

Well, they were 10K RPM SCSI drives, somewhat on the dull side of cutting
edge.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

Hey Brad;

Prior to getting my hands on said Raptor, I always sped up my machine's
performance through using a separate Partition for the PageFile. That's my
default Performance Enhancement for any machine I use. Even the Raptor at
home.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT3/CD3
IntelP4-2.4
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Brad" wrote in message
news:4899739@discussion.autodesk.com...
There are probably more of us that use it that don't know. My HP XW4200
came with a Raptor in it. It is still a bit slow, so we are looking at
going with two in a raid setup. I wanted three in a raid 5 setup, but found
out that we don't have the room for it. Still, with nightly backups
stability should not be a major problem. As for noise, I have not noticed
it nearly as much as the AC, ceiling fan or laser printer. Actually, most
of the noise around here walks on two feet!

Brad

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:4899557@discussion.autodesk.com...
In the case of the Raptor, I feel fortunate that being on the cutting edge,
I've experienced very little blood-letting. 🙂

I'm more than pleased with it's performance, as you can probably tell.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT3/CD3
IntelP4-2.4
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce2 MX 32MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:4899493@discussion.autodesk.com...
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:04:55 +0000, Don Reichle
wrote:

>Sorry you got the lemon. 🙂
>
>I almost feel guilty - almost.

Well, they were 10K RPM SCSI drives, somewhat on the dull side of cutting
edge.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com