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64 bits or Xeon?

17 REPLIES 17
Reply
Message 1 of 18
Anonymous
633 Views, 17 Replies

64 bits or Xeon?

Hi guys,

I know this subject is kind of burned now. But I've been reading some sites
like anandtech, arstechnica, this forum, etc, etc, but have never seen any
concrete answer to my question. I need to make a new PC (I know I can't name
it workstation for budget reasons) and my options are:

P4 @ 3.0 Ghz (670 dlls)
AMD 64 3200+ (800 dlls)
Dual XEON 2.4 Ghz (960 dlls)

All of them include 1GB RAM and Motherboard.

I've read, P4 and XEON are going out soon and AMD 64 is just too new and
will not be a reall help until the release of 64 bit applications so ...what
would you do? Also read about Opteron but they seem too pricey for my
wallet.

I use ADT 2004 and Viz Render + Autodesk VIZ4.

Thanks for any advice,
Regards,

Caleb.
17 REPLIES 17
Message 2 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Why haven't you considered the AMD XP or MP cpu?
"Caleb | 3design" <3design@megared.net.mx> wrote in message
news:AEBB5EDE011698A9C691E9B233E80D77@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Hi guys,
>
> I know this subject is kind of burned now. But I've been reading some
sites
> like anandtech, arstechnica, this forum, etc, etc, but have never seen any
> concrete answer to my question. I need to make a new PC (I know I can't
name
> it workstation for budget reasons) and my options are:
>
> P4 @ 3.0 Ghz (670 dlls)
> AMD 64 3200+ (800 dlls)
> Dual XEON 2.4 Ghz (960 dlls)
>
> All of them include 1GB RAM and Motherboard.
>
> I've read, P4 and XEON are going out soon and AMD 64 is just too new and
> will not be a reall help until the release of 64 bit applications so
...what
> would you do? Also read about Opteron but they seem too pricey for my
> wallet.
>
> I use ADT 2004 and Viz Render + Autodesk VIZ4.
>
> Thanks for any advice,
> Regards,
>
> Caleb.
>
>
Message 3 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Aren't they supposed to have less performance?

Caleb
Message 4 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

They are the fastest clock speed and are much less expensive. I know clock
speed isn't everything but just thought you were on a budget.
"Caleb | 3design" <3design@megared.net.mx> wrote in message
news:f1a5b08.1@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Aren't they supposed to have less performance?
>
> Caleb
>
>
Message 5 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I would go AMD 64 for these reasons:

1) They can keep up with the 3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 with 32 bit Operating system
and 32 bit applications.
2) When Windows 64 bit comes out, expect from 30-50% increase in performance
from an OS upgrade.
3) When AutoDesk releases it's 64 bit compiled versions, expect performance
to increase another 10-30%.

That means that you can keep the same system, and over the course of next
year, the performance will almost double, IF you upgrade your OS and your
application. That means you don't have to upgrade for at least another year
or so.

If you go Pentium 4, it is a few dollars cheaper, but expect to upgrade
sooner.

- Ashley Fulks
www.nisku.ca


"Caleb | 3design" <3design@megared.net.mx> wrote in message
news:AEBB5EDE011698A9C691E9B233E80D77@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Hi guys,
>
> I know this subject is kind of burned now. But I've been reading some
sites
> like anandtech, arstechnica, this forum, etc, etc, but have never seen any
> concrete answer to my question. I need to make a new PC (I know I can't
name
> it workstation for budget reasons) and my options are:
>
> P4 @ 3.0 Ghz (670 dlls)
> AMD 64 3200+ (800 dlls)
> Dual XEON 2.4 Ghz (960 dlls)
>
> All of them include 1GB RAM and Motherboard.
>
> I've read, P4 and XEON are going out soon and AMD 64 is just too new and
> will not be a reall help until the release of 64 bit applications so
...what
> would you do? Also read about Opteron but they seem too pricey for my
> wallet.
>
> I use ADT 2004 and Viz Render + Autodesk VIZ4.
>
> Thanks for any advice,
> Regards,
>
> Caleb.
>
>
Message 6 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Ash, Longhorn isn't expected to debut until 2005. Don't hold your breath
for any 64 bit Autodesk apps. It is really cost effective? Waiting another
year it will all be cheaper.
Message 7 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I am not talking about Longhorn, I am talking about Windows XP 64 that
microsoft promises will be released in Q1 of 2004. As for AutoDesk, it is in
the works, but they are tight lipped about when it will be done.

As for cost effective, I believe skipping a hardware upgrade is cost
effective. Are you saying waiting another year then buying another complete
computer is cost effective?

- Ashley Fulks
www.nisku.ca


"Jimmy B." wrote in message
news:F68C88158872FEF73A2589A12FD3F62E@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Ash, Longhorn isn't expected to debut until 2005. Don't hold your breath
> for any 64 bit Autodesk apps. It is really cost effective? Waiting
another
> year it will all be cheaper.
>
>
Message 8 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Right now I would buy a P4 system current roadmaps show socket/chipset
stability right up to 3.8Ghz possibly 4Ghz, giving me upgrade options. Buy
in at 2.4ghz, upgrade right to 3.8Ghz - 4Ghz on the same motherboard when
the chip prices fall.
The Athlon 64 roadmap shows 3400+ max on the current socket and a switch to
a 739(?) socket in the near future. This would kill any possible upgrade.
Also the current Athlon64's are only single channel, and it looks like the
dual channel wont be coming until the next generation chipset/socket.

Right now I see the P4C systems having a longer lifespan than the current
Athlon64 systems.

PS. I am going to build myself a P4C system for christams 😉


--
Paul Houlker
Rimex Supply Ltd
www.rimex.com
Message 9 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Just my opinion, but my processor upgrades include the mobo, I've never just
bought a slightly faster processor and kept the same board. I don't see
paying for two processors just to get a 50% clock speed increase.


> Buy in at 2.4ghz, upgrade right to 3.8Ghz - 4Ghz on the same motherboard
when
> the chip prices fall.
Message 10 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I see where you are coming from, but I think you would be paying alot of
money in the future for something that is not worth it.

Case in point: Intel roadmap - http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12040

Granted, the Pentium 4 - 2.4Ghz chip is the best "bang for your buck" today
at less than $600, according to that roadmap. Then say at the end of next
year you want to upgrade to the 3.8 Ghz, you will be paying $1,300 USD for
another 1.4 Ghz of CPU power. I don't know how accurate that roadmap is
though, compared to reality, but I do know you will still be stuck at 32 bit
code though.

I think most people don't understand the leap in computing power going from
32 bit to 64 bit. It is exponential. For example the last time this happened
was when we went from MSDOS 6.22 (16 bit) to Windows 95 (32 bit). We just
haven't seen a leap like that yet because the hardware is so new. But it is
not all wasted power today, AutoCAD already uses large 64 bit floating point
numbers in calculations, and doing it in 32 bit is slooooow. That's why with
64 bit OS, the same program will run up to 44% faster, and that is still in
32 bit code!

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112603,00.asp

Now don't get me wrong Paul, I dont think that you are wrong. I just think
that we have a different idea of what the future will hold.

- Ashley Fulks
www.nisku.ca


"Paul Houlker" <666paulh@rimex.com666> wrote in message
news:B81F2E0515CBC8B902D3310B36478616@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Right now I would buy a P4 system current roadmaps show socket/chipset
> stability right up to 3.8Ghz possibly 4Ghz, giving me upgrade options. Buy
> in at 2.4ghz, upgrade right to 3.8Ghz - 4Ghz on the same motherboard when
> the chip prices fall.
> The Athlon 64 roadmap shows 3400+ max on the current socket and a switch
to
> a 739(?) socket in the near future. This would kill any possible upgrade.
> Also the current Athlon64's are only single channel, and it looks like the
> dual channel wont be coming until the next generation chipset/socket.
>
> Right now I see the P4C systems having a longer lifespan than the current
> Athlon64 systems.
>
> PS. I am going to build myself a P4C system for christams 😉
>
>
> --
> Paul Houlker
> Rimex Supply Ltd
> www.rimex.com
>
>
Message 11 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"Then say at the end of next
year you want to upgrade to the 3.8 Ghz, you will be paying $1,300 USD for
another 1.4 Ghz of CPU power."

The idea is to wait for Intel to release its next chipset/socket, usually
this will make the $1,300USD price fall drastically. Am I usually one
generation behind the best, buying the chips once their price drops.
--
Paul Houlker
Rimex Supply Ltd
www.rimex.com
Message 12 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Fully understand, everybody does things their way.

But this is my plan

The way I see it I can get a P4C 2.4Ghz for $222.98Can ($169.30 US)
Overclock to 3.0Ghz 1000Mhz FSB on air cooling with ease. This should last
2years minimum for every thing I need to do.
Then I can get a 3.4Ghz P4EE or the new 3.8Ghz+ after their prces fall,
giving me another 2 years easy (With OC'ing to 4Ghz+).

I just cant stomach paying for the top end product and then seeing it for
half the price six months later. If I had lots of money, I would be buying
the newest topend system every year, hell I would be typing this right now
on a athlon64 😉



--
Paul Houlker
Rimex Supply Ltd
www.rimex.com
Message 13 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

That's not entirely true. Yes, AutoCAD uses 64 bit numbers, however the
code is compiled for a 32 bit processor, so it is generating 32 bit code.
Any 64 bit calculations still have to be broken down into 32 bit operations.
The only difference is most likely that 32 zero's will be added to the high
order bits of each instruction. The processor will process 64 bits at a
time, but only 32 of those bits contain useful information. To take
advantage of 64 bit processors, at the bare minimum the program must be
recompiled for a 64 bit Processor.


--
Jon Rizzo
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.


"Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
news:3B0CF3E0689300E90E8CF8C52B6E2F75@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I see where you are coming from, but I think you would be paying alot of
> money in the future for something that is not worth it.
>
> Case in point: Intel roadmap - http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12040
>
> Granted, the Pentium 4 - 2.4Ghz chip is the best "bang for your buck"
today
> at less than $600, according to that roadmap. Then say at the end of next
> year you want to upgrade to the 3.8 Ghz, you will be paying $1,300 USD for
> another 1.4 Ghz of CPU power. I don't know how accurate that roadmap is
> though, compared to reality, but I do know you will still be stuck at 32
bit
> code though.
>
> I think most people don't understand the leap in computing power going
from
> 32 bit to 64 bit. It is exponential. For example the last time this
happened
> was when we went from MSDOS 6.22 (16 bit) to Windows 95 (32 bit). We just
> haven't seen a leap like that yet because the hardware is so new. But it
is
> not all wasted power today, AutoCAD already uses large 64 bit floating
point
> numbers in calculations, and doing it in 32 bit is slooooow. That's why
with
> 64 bit OS, the same program will run up to 44% faster, and that is still
in
> 32 bit code!
>
> http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112603,00.asp
>
> Now don't get me wrong Paul, I dont think that you are wrong. I just think
> that we have a different idea of what the future will hold.
>
> - Ashley Fulks
> www.nisku.ca
>
>
> "Paul Houlker" <666paulh@rimex.com666> wrote in message
> news:B81F2E0515CBC8B902D3310B36478616@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Right now I would buy a P4 system current roadmaps show socket/chipset
> > stability right up to 3.8Ghz possibly 4Ghz, giving me upgrade options.
Buy
> > in at 2.4ghz, upgrade right to 3.8Ghz - 4Ghz on the same motherboard
when
> > the chip prices fall.
> > The Athlon 64 roadmap shows 3400+ max on the current socket and a switch
> to
> > a 739(?) socket in the near future. This would kill any possible
upgrade.
> > Also the current Athlon64's are only single channel, and it looks like
the
> > dual channel wont be coming until the next generation chipset/socket.
> >
> > Right now I see the P4C systems having a longer lifespan than the
current
> > Athlon64 systems.
> >
> > PS. I am going to build myself a P4C system for christams 😉
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul Houlker
> > Rimex Supply Ltd
> > www.rimex.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Your right John, I reread my sentence and it was not clear. What I ment to
say is that AutoCAD runs 44% faster on the AMD 64 than on the 32 bit Intel
systems.

It will run a heck of alot faster than 44% when compliled for 64 bit x86,
running on a 64 bit Windows XP next quarter.

- Ashley Fulks
www.nisku.ca

"Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
news:3160EFA21767F94B28AB12624A443516@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> That's not entirely true. Yes, AutoCAD uses 64 bit numbers, however the
> code is compiled for a 32 bit processor, so it is generating 32 bit code.
> Any 64 bit calculations still have to be broken down into 32 bit
operations.
> The only difference is most likely that 32 zero's will be added to the
high
> order bits of each instruction. The processor will process 64 bits at a
> time, but only 32 of those bits contain useful information. To take
> advantage of 64 bit processors, at the bare minimum the program must be
> recompiled for a 64 bit Processor.
>
>
> --
> Jon Rizzo
> Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.
>
>
> "Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
> news:3B0CF3E0689300E90E8CF8C52B6E2F75@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > I see where you are coming from, but I think you would be paying alot of
> > money in the future for something that is not worth it.
> >
> > Case in point: Intel roadmap - http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12040
> >
> > Granted, the Pentium 4 - 2.4Ghz chip is the best "bang for your buck"
> today
> > at less than $600, according to that roadmap. Then say at the end of
next
> > year you want to upgrade to the 3.8 Ghz, you will be paying $1,300 USD
for
> > another 1.4 Ghz of CPU power. I don't know how accurate that roadmap is
> > though, compared to reality, but I do know you will still be stuck at 32
> bit
> > code though.
> >
> > I think most people don't understand the leap in computing power going
> from
> > 32 bit to 64 bit. It is exponential. For example the last time this
> happened
> > was when we went from MSDOS 6.22 (16 bit) to Windows 95 (32 bit). We
just
> > haven't seen a leap like that yet because the hardware is so new. But it
> is
> > not all wasted power today, AutoCAD already uses large 64 bit floating
> point
> > numbers in calculations, and doing it in 32 bit is slooooow. That's why
> with
> > 64 bit OS, the same program will run up to 44% faster, and that is still
> in
> > 32 bit code!
> >
> > http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112603,00.asp
> >
> > Now don't get me wrong Paul, I dont think that you are wrong. I just
think
> > that we have a different idea of what the future will hold.
> >
> > - Ashley Fulks
> > www.nisku.ca
> >
> >
> > "Paul Houlker" <666paulh@rimex.com666> wrote in message
> > news:B81F2E0515CBC8B902D3310B36478616@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Right now I would buy a P4 system current roadmaps show socket/chipset
> > > stability right up to 3.8Ghz possibly 4Ghz, giving me upgrade options.
> Buy
> > > in at 2.4ghz, upgrade right to 3.8Ghz - 4Ghz on the same motherboard
> when
> > > the chip prices fall.
> > > The Athlon 64 roadmap shows 3400+ max on the current socket and a
switch
> > to
> > > a 739(?) socket in the near future. This would kill any possible
> upgrade.
> > > Also the current Athlon64's are only single channel, and it looks like
> the
> > > dual channel wont be coming until the next generation chipset/socket.
> > >
> > > Right now I see the P4C systems having a longer lifespan than the
> current
> > > Athlon64 systems.
> > >
> > > PS. I am going to build myself a P4C system for christams 😉
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Paul Houlker
> > > Rimex Supply Ltd
> > > www.rimex.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Where did you get this information? Is there a published article about
this, or is this the result of your own testing?

Just curious.

PS: You really think Autodesk will have a 64 bit version of AutoCAD
available next quarter? ROFL. I'll believe that when I see it.

--
Jon Rizzo
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.


"Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
news:DF17E2129C565D15F8A3DA3757642881@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Your right John, I reread my sentence and it was not clear. What I ment to
> say is that AutoCAD runs 44% faster on the AMD 64 than on the 32 bit Intel
> systems.
>
> It will run a heck of alot faster than 44% when compliled for 64 bit x86,
> running on a 64 bit Windows XP next quarter.
>
> - Ashley Fulks
> www.nisku.ca
>
> "Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
> news:3160EFA21767F94B28AB12624A443516@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > That's not entirely true. Yes, AutoCAD uses 64 bit numbers, however the
> > code is compiled for a 32 bit processor, so it is generating 32 bit
code.
> > Any 64 bit calculations still have to be broken down into 32 bit
> operations.
> > The only difference is most likely that 32 zero's will be added to the
> high
> > order bits of each instruction. The processor will process 64 bits at a
> > time, but only 32 of those bits contain useful information. To take
> > advantage of 64 bit processors, at the bare minimum the program must be
> > recompiled for a 64 bit Processor.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jon Rizzo
> > Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.
> >
> >
> > "Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
> > news:3B0CF3E0689300E90E8CF8C52B6E2F75@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > I see where you are coming from, but I think you would be paying alot
of
> > > money in the future for something that is not worth it.
> > >
> > > Case in point: Intel roadmap -
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12040
> > >
> > > Granted, the Pentium 4 - 2.4Ghz chip is the best "bang for your buck"
> > today
> > > at less than $600, according to that roadmap. Then say at the end of
> next
> > > year you want to upgrade to the 3.8 Ghz, you will be paying $1,300 USD
> for
> > > another 1.4 Ghz of CPU power. I don't know how accurate that roadmap
is
> > > though, compared to reality, but I do know you will still be stuck at
32
> > bit
> > > code though.
> > >
> > > I think most people don't understand the leap in computing power going
> > from
> > > 32 bit to 64 bit. It is exponential. For example the last time this
> > happened
> > > was when we went from MSDOS 6.22 (16 bit) to Windows 95 (32 bit). We
> just
> > > haven't seen a leap like that yet because the hardware is so new. But
it
> > is
> > > not all wasted power today, AutoCAD already uses large 64 bit floating
> > point
> > > numbers in calculations, and doing it in 32 bit is slooooow. That's
why
> > with
> > > 64 bit OS, the same program will run up to 44% faster, and that is
still
> > in
> > > 32 bit code!
> > >
> > > http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112603,00.asp
> > >
> > > Now don't get me wrong Paul, I dont think that you are wrong. I just
> think
> > > that we have a different idea of what the future will hold.
> > >
> > > - Ashley Fulks
> > > www.nisku.ca
> > >
> > >
> > > "Paul Houlker" <666paulh@rimex.com666> wrote in message
> > > news:B81F2E0515CBC8B902D3310B36478616@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > Right now I would buy a P4 system current roadmaps show
socket/chipset
> > > > stability right up to 3.8Ghz possibly 4Ghz, giving me upgrade
options.
> > Buy
> > > > in at 2.4ghz, upgrade right to 3.8Ghz - 4Ghz on the same motherboard
> > when
> > > > the chip prices fall.
> > > > The Athlon 64 roadmap shows 3400+ max on the current socket and a
> switch
> > > to
> > > > a 739(?) socket in the near future. This would kill any possible
> > upgrade.
> > > > Also the current Athlon64's are only single channel, and it looks
like
> > the
> > > > dual channel wont be coming until the next generation
chipset/socket.
> > > >
> > > > Right now I see the P4C systems having a longer lifespan than the
> > current
> > > > Athlon64 systems.
> > > >
> > > > PS. I am going to build myself a P4C system for christams 😉
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Paul Houlker
> > > > Rimex Supply Ltd
> > > > www.rimex.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112603,00.asp

- Ashley Fulks
www.nisku.ca


"Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
news:D1E7B3B5C17C40ACC30874CCC0514705@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Where did you get this information? Is there a published article about
> this, or is this the result of your own testing?
>
> Just curious.
>
> PS: You really think Autodesk will have a 64 bit version of AutoCAD
> available next quarter? ROFL. I'll believe that when I see it.
>
> --
> Jon Rizzo
> Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.
>
>
> "Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
> news:DF17E2129C565D15F8A3DA3757642881@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Your right John, I reread my sentence and it was not clear. What I ment
to
> > say is that AutoCAD runs 44% faster on the AMD 64 than on the 32 bit
Intel
> > systems.
> >
> > It will run a heck of alot faster than 44% when compliled for 64 bit
x86,
> > running on a 64 bit Windows XP next quarter.
> >
> > - Ashley Fulks
> > www.nisku.ca
> >
> > "Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
> > news:3160EFA21767F94B28AB12624A443516@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > That's not entirely true. Yes, AutoCAD uses 64 bit numbers, however
the
> > > code is compiled for a 32 bit processor, so it is generating 32 bit
> code.
> > > Any 64 bit calculations still have to be broken down into 32 bit
> > operations.
> > > The only difference is most likely that 32 zero's will be added to the
> > high
> > > order bits of each instruction. The processor will process 64 bits at
a
> > > time, but only 32 of those bits contain useful information. To take
> > > advantage of 64 bit processors, at the bare minimum the program must
be
> > > recompiled for a 64 bit Processor.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jon Rizzo
> > > Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
> > > news:3B0CF3E0689300E90E8CF8C52B6E2F75@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > I see where you are coming from, but I think you would be paying
alot
> of
> > > > money in the future for something that is not worth it.
> > > >
> > > > Case in point: Intel roadmap -
> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12040
> > > >
> > > > Granted, the Pentium 4 - 2.4Ghz chip is the best "bang for your
buck"
> > > today
> > > > at less than $600, according to that roadmap. Then say at the end of
> > next
> > > > year you want to upgrade to the 3.8 Ghz, you will be paying $1,300
USD
> > for
> > > > another 1.4 Ghz of CPU power. I don't know how accurate that roadmap
> is
> > > > though, compared to reality, but I do know you will still be stuck
at
> 32
> > > bit
> > > > code though.
> > > >
> > > > I think most people don't understand the leap in computing power
going
> > > from
> > > > 32 bit to 64 bit. It is exponential. For example the last time this
> > > happened
> > > > was when we went from MSDOS 6.22 (16 bit) to Windows 95 (32 bit). We
> > just
> > > > haven't seen a leap like that yet because the hardware is so new.
But
> it
> > > is
> > > > not all wasted power today, AutoCAD already uses large 64 bit
floating
> > > point
> > > > numbers in calculations, and doing it in 32 bit is slooooow. That's
> why
> > > with
> > > > 64 bit OS, the same program will run up to 44% faster, and that is
> still
> > > in
> > > > 32 bit code!
> > > >
> > > > http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112603,00.asp
> > > >
> > > > Now don't get me wrong Paul, I dont think that you are wrong. I just
> > think
> > > > that we have a different idea of what the future will hold.
> > > >
> > > > - Ashley Fulks
> > > > www.nisku.ca
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Paul Houlker" <666paulh@rimex.com666> wrote in message
> > > > news:B81F2E0515CBC8B902D3310B36478616@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > Right now I would buy a P4 system current roadmaps show
> socket/chipset
> > > > > stability right up to 3.8Ghz possibly 4Ghz, giving me upgrade
> options.
> > > Buy
> > > > > in at 2.4ghz, upgrade right to 3.8Ghz - 4Ghz on the same
motherboard
> > > when
> > > > > the chip prices fall.
> > > > > The Athlon 64 roadmap shows 3400+ max on the current socket and a
> > switch
> > > > to
> > > > > a 739(?) socket in the near future. This would kill any possible
> > > upgrade.
> > > > > Also the current Athlon64's are only single channel, and it looks
> like
> > > the
> > > > > dual channel wont be coming until the next generation
> chipset/socket.
> > > > >
> > > > > Right now I see the P4C systems having a longer lifespan than the
> > > current
> > > > > Athlon64 systems.
> > > > >
> > > > > PS. I am going to build myself a P4C system for christams 😉
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Paul Houlker
> > > > > Rimex Supply Ltd
> > > > > www.rimex.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 17 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I suppose I should have followed that link the FIRST time you posted it. 🙂

It doesn't say anything about a 64 bit acad next quarter, though....

--
Jon Rizzo
Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.


"Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
news:F169F74576824DCC1D7DF2BFBA5AD3C0@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112603,00.asp
>
> - Ashley Fulks
> www.nisku.ca
>
>
> "Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
> news:D1E7B3B5C17C40ACC30874CCC0514705@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Where did you get this information? Is there a published article about
> > this, or is this the result of your own testing?
> >
> > Just curious.
> >
> > PS: You really think Autodesk will have a 64 bit version of AutoCAD
> > available next quarter? ROFL. I'll believe that when I see it.
> >
> > --
> > Jon Rizzo
> > Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.
> >
> >
> > "Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
> > news:DF17E2129C565D15F8A3DA3757642881@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Your right John, I reread my sentence and it was not clear. What I
ment
> to
> > > say is that AutoCAD runs 44% faster on the AMD 64 than on the 32 bit
> Intel
> > > systems.
> > >
> > > It will run a heck of alot faster than 44% when compliled for 64 bit
> x86,
> > > running on a 64 bit Windows XP next quarter.
> > >
> > > - Ashley Fulks
> > > www.nisku.ca
> > >
> > > "Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
> > > news:3160EFA21767F94B28AB12624A443516@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > That's not entirely true. Yes, AutoCAD uses 64 bit numbers, however
> the
> > > > code is compiled for a 32 bit processor, so it is generating 32 bit
> > code.
> > > > Any 64 bit calculations still have to be broken down into 32 bit
> > > operations.
> > > > The only difference is most likely that 32 zero's will be added to
the
> > > high
> > > > order bits of each instruction. The processor will process 64 bits
at
> a
> > > > time, but only 32 of those bits contain useful information. To take
> > > > advantage of 64 bit processors, at the bare minimum the program must
> be
> > > > recompiled for a 64 bit Processor.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jon Rizzo
> > > > Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
> > > > news:3B0CF3E0689300E90E8CF8C52B6E2F75@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > I see where you are coming from, but I think you would be paying
> alot
> > of
> > > > > money in the future for something that is not worth it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Case in point: Intel roadmap -
> > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12040
> > > > >
> > > > > Granted, the Pentium 4 - 2.4Ghz chip is the best "bang for your
> buck"
> > > > today
> > > > > at less than $600, according to that roadmap. Then say at the end
of
> > > next
> > > > > year you want to upgrade to the 3.8 Ghz, you will be paying $1,300
> USD
> > > for
> > > > > another 1.4 Ghz of CPU power. I don't know how accurate that
roadmap
> > is
> > > > > though, compared to reality, but I do know you will still be stuck
> at
> > 32
> > > > bit
> > > > > code though.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think most people don't understand the leap in computing power
> going
> > > > from
> > > > > 32 bit to 64 bit. It is exponential. For example the last time
this
> > > > happened
> > > > > was when we went from MSDOS 6.22 (16 bit) to Windows 95 (32 bit).
We
> > > just
> > > > > haven't seen a leap like that yet because the hardware is so new.
> But
> > it
> > > > is
> > > > > not all wasted power today, AutoCAD already uses large 64 bit
> floating
> > > > point
> > > > > numbers in calculations, and doing it in 32 bit is slooooow.
That's
> > why
> > > > with
> > > > > 64 bit OS, the same program will run up to 44% faster, and that is
> > still
> > > > in
> > > > > 32 bit code!
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112603,00.asp
> > > > >
> > > > > Now don't get me wrong Paul, I dont think that you are wrong. I
just
> > > think
> > > > > that we have a different idea of what the future will hold.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Ashley Fulks
> > > > > www.nisku.ca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Paul Houlker" <666paulh@rimex.com666> wrote in message
> > > > > news:B81F2E0515CBC8B902D3310B36478616@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > Right now I would buy a P4 system current roadmaps show
> > socket/chipset
> > > > > > stability right up to 3.8Ghz possibly 4Ghz, giving me upgrade
> > options.
> > > > Buy
> > > > > > in at 2.4ghz, upgrade right to 3.8Ghz - 4Ghz on the same
> motherboard
> > > > when
> > > > > > the chip prices fall.
> > > > > > The Athlon 64 roadmap shows 3400+ max on the current socket and
a
> > > switch
> > > > > to
> > > > > > a 739(?) socket in the near future. This would kill any possible
> > > > upgrade.
> > > > > > Also the current Athlon64's are only single channel, and it
looks
> > like
> > > > the
> > > > > > dual channel wont be coming until the next generation
> > chipset/socket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Right now I see the P4C systems having a longer lifespan than
the
> > > > current
> > > > > > Athlon64 systems.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS. I am going to build myself a P4C system for christams 😉
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Paul Houlker
> > > > > > Rimex Supply Ltd
> > > > > > www.rimex.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 18 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

No, it will not be released next quarter, i was referring to the beta. I
assume it will be Q4 2004, because their is not really much to recode, other
than recompile and optimize. Most software companies can recompile their
code to 64 bit inside of a week. Since the processor and architecture is
still x86, little has to be done. Most x86 code compiled to 64 bit runs on
an AMD 64 bit processor without any significant changes. Programmers just
usually rework the code to take advantages of the larger registers and the
massive memory addressing.

- Ashley Fulks
www.nisku.ca


"Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
news:0093BC4D742B90B33E152EE5F0A42C47@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I suppose I should have followed that link the FIRST time you posted it.
:-)
>
> It doesn't say anything about a 64 bit acad next quarter, though....
>
> --
> Jon Rizzo
> Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.
>
>
> "Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
> news:F169F74576824DCC1D7DF2BFBA5AD3C0@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112603,00.asp
> >
> > - Ashley Fulks
> > www.nisku.ca
> >
> >
> > "Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
> > news:D1E7B3B5C17C40ACC30874CCC0514705@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Where did you get this information? Is there a published article
about
> > > this, or is this the result of your own testing?
> > >
> > > Just curious.
> > >
> > > PS: You really think Autodesk will have a 64 bit version of AutoCAD
> > > available next quarter? ROFL. I'll believe that when I see it.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jon Rizzo
> > > Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
> > > news:DF17E2129C565D15F8A3DA3757642881@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > Your right John, I reread my sentence and it was not clear. What I
> ment
> > to
> > > > say is that AutoCAD runs 44% faster on the AMD 64 than on the 32 bit
> > Intel
> > > > systems.
> > > >
> > > > It will run a heck of alot faster than 44% when compliled for 64 bit
> > x86,
> > > > running on a 64 bit Windows XP next quarter.
> > > >
> > > > - Ashley Fulks
> > > > www.nisku.ca
> > > >
> > > > "Jon Rizzo" wrote in message
> > > > news:3160EFA21767F94B28AB12624A443516@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > That's not entirely true. Yes, AutoCAD uses 64 bit numbers,
however
> > the
> > > > > code is compiled for a 32 bit processor, so it is generating 32
bit
> > > code.
> > > > > Any 64 bit calculations still have to be broken down into 32 bit
> > > > operations.
> > > > > The only difference is most likely that 32 zero's will be added to
> the
> > > > high
> > > > > order bits of each instruction. The processor will process 64
bits
> at
> > a
> > > > > time, but only 32 of those bits contain useful information. To
take
> > > > > advantage of 64 bit processors, at the bare minimum the program
must
> > be
> > > > > recompiled for a 64 bit Processor.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jon Rizzo
> > > > > Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ashley Fulks" wrote in message
> > > > > news:3B0CF3E0689300E90E8CF8C52B6E2F75@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > I see where you are coming from, but I think you would be paying
> > alot
> > > of
> > > > > > money in the future for something that is not worth it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Case in point: Intel roadmap -
> > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12040
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Granted, the Pentium 4 - 2.4Ghz chip is the best "bang for your
> > buck"
> > > > > today
> > > > > > at less than $600, according to that roadmap. Then say at the
end
> of
> > > > next
> > > > > > year you want to upgrade to the 3.8 Ghz, you will be paying
$1,300
> > USD
> > > > for
> > > > > > another 1.4 Ghz of CPU power. I don't know how accurate that
> roadmap
> > > is
> > > > > > though, compared to reality, but I do know you will still be
stuck
> > at
> > > 32
> > > > > bit
> > > > > > code though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think most people don't understand the leap in computing power
> > going
> > > > > from
> > > > > > 32 bit to 64 bit. It is exponential. For example the last time
> this
> > > > > happened
> > > > > > was when we went from MSDOS 6.22 (16 bit) to Windows 95 (32
bit).
> We
> > > > just
> > > > > > haven't seen a leap like that yet because the hardware is so
new.
> > But
> > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > not all wasted power today, AutoCAD already uses large 64 bit
> > floating
> > > > > point
> > > > > > numbers in calculations, and doing it in 32 bit is slooooow.
> That's
> > > why
> > > > > with
> > > > > > 64 bit OS, the same program will run up to 44% faster, and that
is
> > > still
> > > > > in
> > > > > > 32 bit code!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112603,00.asp
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now don't get me wrong Paul, I dont think that you are wrong. I
> just
> > > > think
> > > > > > that we have a different idea of what the future will hold.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Ashley Fulks
> > > > > > www.nisku.ca
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Paul Houlker" <666paulh@rimex.com666> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:B81F2E0515CBC8B902D3310B36478616@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > Right now I would buy a P4 system current roadmaps show
> > > socket/chipset
> > > > > > > stability right up to 3.8Ghz possibly 4Ghz, giving me upgrade
> > > options.
> > > > > Buy
> > > > > > > in at 2.4ghz, upgrade right to 3.8Ghz - 4Ghz on the same
> > motherboard
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > the chip prices fall.
> > > > > > > The Athlon 64 roadmap shows 3400+ max on the current socket
and
> a
> > > > switch
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > a 739(?) socket in the near future. This would kill any
possible
> > > > > upgrade.
> > > > > > > Also the current Athlon64's are only single channel, and it
> looks
> > > like
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > dual channel wont be coming until the next generation
> > > chipset/socket.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Right now I see the P4C systems having a longer lifespan than
> the
> > > > > current
> > > > > > > Athlon64 systems.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PS. I am going to build myself a P4C system for christams 😉
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Paul Houlker
> > > > > > > Rimex Supply Ltd
> > > > > > > www.rimex.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

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