What do you think of Composite 2011?

[Cory_XD]

Hi,

Now that Composite 2011 is available, I thought it would be good to have a thread where people can give us feedback on how they like it and what’s happening for them.

What would we like to hear? Things like:

* how do you like the release?
* are you having any problems?
* what would you like to see in the future?

Thanks,
Cory

[doug_bowker_3D]

So far, not going well. The interface is still a very unstable with my Nvidia 3800, even with the latest drivers. But my biggest head scratcher is lack of rpf support! What? I mean, did not Autodesk invent this format? It's ALL I use for rendering for it's z-depth and wide gamut bit depth, and it's got great support in After Effects CS4 (actually since AE7 I think).

Granted, I'm getting Composite as a freebie with Max 2011, but free is worthless if you can't use it for professional work flow. And then I just noticed no video, just sequences. Why? It makes no sense at all. I work with HD video footage all the time and it's NOT going to come in as frames- unless an extra step to re-output it as fames, is taken which is crazy.

I'd love it to be this nice integrated work flow with Max, but I don't see it coming close to replacing AE at the moment, let alone CS5 which is coming soon. So ---I'll watch all the tutorials so I can see what other things I might be able to use it for, and maybe I was looking for too much, but it still seems strange that some obvious features are not there.

[Anonymous]

I have yet to really get into it but initially seems a bit more stable and the 64 bit is awesome- much appreciated: finally all the RAM I have is making itself useful! ;)

Take it easy, all.

James

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

Unfortunately that just proves the problem (you only have 2 options fullscreen or windowed floating). I am looking for windowed Maximized, like most applications support. I know about the command-line and .ini tokens, but that doesn't address my issue.

Thanks for posting though as it may help others,
-Eric

[ZeroNove]

here I'm again
just to double check I rolled back the driver to 191.78 (the last one working fine) but this time Composite x64 still doesn't start
Googling what I've found into the log file (AdlmIntLicense.cpp) I've also let 3ds max to recreate the "CascadeInfo.cas file"
It's a fact that looking at the updated hardware qualification list for Composite 2011 I don't find my fx1500 (I suppose because it's a bit old) but I'm pretty sure that in the beginning it worked so to me it's a license issue. Any other suggestion to avoid formatting my HD, please ;-)

[morazz]

Hey Eric,

Sorry about that. I totally missed your point. I don't know why the Maximized option will not. That is strange I agree. Anyway, I was meaning to post that issue on my blog anyway, since it is asked a lot :-) so thanks for reminding me to do it

cheers

[Anonymous]

It will be there somewhere in the XML that controls the UI. Unless you know what you are doing though, I'd stay away. The font is actually "discreet", which is a little like a girlier version of Gill Sans. I don't think it looks much like Comic Sans but it certainly doesn't look like a UI font. You get used to it quickly enough, though.

[Anonymous]

Why would it matter? With ALT+TAB it seems to be a complete non-issue to me.

[Anonymous]

thanks; I looked for every font related string in the xml files I could find, but with no success. I hope font control isn't hard coded.

[Cory_XD]

it should work - details are here: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=14960048&linkID=9242259

[Cory_XD]

do the details here help? http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=14960048&linkID=9242259

[rudolf_germann]

Have you tried to make a archive from the 2010 files, then open these archives in 2011? I tried these with a couple of Toxik 2009 Compositions and it worked fine.

best,

rudolf

[Anonymous]

Where do I start? It is very new to me, I have only scratched the surface with it so far, but a few issues have come up, though possibly through my ignorance/inexperience with the program.
Firstly, the installation. It does not let you choose where to install it, it just assumes that it should go on the C: drive, although the Max installer lets you choose where Max goes, but not composite. I have a dual boot system, my C: drive has XP32 and my 😧 drive has XP64, I run Max under XP64 on my D:drive. I install Max and Composite, both 32 and 64 bit versions in XP64.
Max32 is in D:\Program files (x86), Max64 is in D:\Program files, Composite64 ended up in C:\Program files, and Composite32, I honestly don't know where that went. Anyone got a clue?
How do I submit a render from Composite to Backburner? I just can't work it out or find it in the help. In Queue Monitor I don't see any Composite plugin anywhere.
That leads to my next question, how do I import footage from the network? I can't seem to browse through My Network Places, I can only access mapped network drives.
Importing footage, there is no drag n' drop from Windows Explorer into the schematic, honestly. I know this has been mentioned already, but the lack of support for importing video files is a bit restrictive. I do mainly work with sequences from Max, but captured live action comes in on AVI or MOV, converting to sequences takes time.
When I render to a TGA sequence, the files will not open in any other program, I can import the frames back into Composite, but nothing else will read them.
That's the problems I've had so far, if I've not forgotten to mention any. The only other thing is that it is new to me and I'm a bit baffled by the UI so far and having difficulty doing simple things, but I put that down to inexperience, I have a bit of reading to do to learn it, I just wonder if it will be time well invested learning this program. It's not that I'm new to compositing, I currently use Fusion, before that I used Combustion for a while, and way back I used the old Quantel Hal. But I think being familiar with another application is not always an advantage when learning a new one. You tend to notice the differences more than the similarities and it's sometimes hard to adjust.
The thing is, I never really liked Fusion that much, mainly because of the many bugs and gliches, and I hate the net-rendering system. When I realised that Composite was a full blown compositor (Toxic) not some poxy cut-down of combustion or extension of VP that I originally asumed, I thought it may be a workable alternative to Fusion. Being an Autodesk product, it should intergrate well with Max and render to the BB queue (Hmmm... Barbeque) along with the Max jobs. But now I'm seeing a few problems and a big learning curve, so as things stand, as much as I hate to admit it, Fusion is currently my more comfortable compositing environment. Can someone please convince me that it's better than Fusion?

[Steve_Curley]

(I need a script to create this post :-( )

Please see this post for help with attachments.

[Steve_Curley]

how do I import footage from the network?

At the bottom of the browser, in the entry field which shows the current selection ie. "File:C:/Documents and Settings/blah/blah" change that to "File://servername/sharename" e.g. "File://MyServer/C" and hit Enter, then you can browse that share. Bookmarking it might be an idea, I guess ;)

Not exactly intuitive I agree, but it works.

[Anonymous]

Thanks. I had just worked that one out myself. I typed in some UNC paths there and added them as Bookmarks. Not the best way to work but I can at least access those files now.
But, I did this in the File Browser view, if I choose Import from the file menu, it doesn't have the new bookmarks in that file browser, although they do appear in the Render File Path browser.

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

Firstly, the installation. It does not let you choose where to install it, it just assumes that it should go on the C: drive, although the Max installer lets you choose where Max goes, but not composite.

Unfortunately that is the only supported method. It may be worth contacting the Up & Ready support and see if there is a way to install it separately (which can be done) and make it find the 3ds Max/Design license (not sure what has to be done to make that work).

How do I submit a render from Composite to Backburner? I just can’t work it out or find it in the help. In Queue Monitor I don’t see any Composite plugin anywhere.

It doesn't use a plugin from what I can see, instead it is submitted using the BB\cmdjob.exe which allows you to use any commandline application with it. When you go to render Change the Foreground Action to Backburner and it should be submitted for you.

It may also work with BB 2011, but that will only be compatible with the 2011 line of products. Since BB 2011 isn't compatible with previous Autodesk product releases I haven't installed it.

When I render to a TGA sequence, the files will not open in any other program, I can import the frames back into Composite, but nothing else will read them.

Make sure your output depth is set to 8bit, rather than 16bit or 32bit.

Can someone please convince me that it’s better than Fusion?

Unfortunately you are the only one who can make that decision, and since I have no Fusion experience I can't really compare them. Ken LaRue has some Blog and Tutorials posted which may help you learn the application.

-Eric

[Anonymous]

hi samab,

...Importing footage, there is no drag n’ drop from Windows Explorer into the schematic, honestly. ...

just a question out of curiosity of mine, why would i want to do that? the file browser inside composite (let's leave aside the fact that you have some difficulties to get to your netdrive places) is much more suited for browsing image sequences. (same goes with combustion btw., but composites is more comfortable).

for your backburner question: you need to specify some things. go to the project preferences and replace the words “BBINSTALLDIR” and “MANAGERNAME” with the appropriate values, where BBINSTALLDIR is the directory where Backburner is installed and MANAGERNAME is the name of the machine running the Backburner Manager.

cheers!
rayk

[Anonymous]

Please excuse any inacuracy in this post, I'm not at work at this moment, so don't have the stuff in front of me, so my memory may be a bit sketchy on some details.

It may be worth contacting the Up & Ready support and see if there is a way to install it separately (which can be done) and make it find the 3ds Max/Design license (not sure what has to be done to make that work).

Will look into that.

It doesn’t use a plugin from what I can see, instead it is submitted using the BB\cmdjob.exe which allows you to use any commandline application with it. When you go to render Change the Foreground Action to Backburner and it should be submitted for you.

for your backburner question: you need to specify some things. go to the project preferences and replace the words “BBINSTALLDIR” and “MANAGERNAME” with the appropriate values, where BBINSTALLDIR is the directory where Backburner is installed and MANAGERNAME is the name of the machine running the Backburner Manager.

I did the managername thing, that was fairly obvious, what had caught me out was that (presumably because of the C: drive install issue) it was looking for cmdjob.exe in the wrong place. I set it to the full path on the 😧 drive and now the jobs submit, so I have made some progress in that department. But the render nodes gave me errors, refering to files in My Documents/Toxic/render/something about tempory render or something? So it is obviously referencing files on my workstation to render. I'm not sure what these files are or how to change the path they are stored at to a more sensible place, like in a UNC path to a shared folder on the server. Any advice? Needless to say the source footage and output files are on UNC paths. Will try again tomorrow, run out of time today.

Make sure your output depth is set to 8bit, rather than 16bit or 32bit.

Oh yeah, dead right. I totally missed those settings for Bit Depth and Channels, they were hiding in the other tab, either Render or Output, don't remember which was which, but it was not the one where you tell it to be a TGA so I didn't find them.

Ken LaRue has some Blog and Tutorials posted which may help you learn the application.

Will take a look at those. That's what I need, some learning material, I've spent much of the day reading the Help, not a very exciting way to learn.

let’s leave aside the fact that you have some difficulties to get to your netdrive places

Why? That prety much answers your question. But really why wouldn't I want to do that? It is something you expect from any Windows app. Yes, viewing collapsed sequences is good but, this leads me neatly on to my next gripe. And remember, as a Toxic noob I accept some of these shortcommings may be due to my poor understanding of the UI, so I'm a happy man if you tell me I got this wrong. It's about the application window, it's a while since I used Combustion, but IIRC it had a similar thing going on. Everything is contained within that window and cannot leave. Bear in mind I have a nice pair of Sony HD monitors in front of me, I got the window maximised on the right one. I can open the nice comfortable File Browser with it's collapsed sequences as a floating window if I wish. Oh dear, it's covering my work space, but look there is a big empty screen to the left doing nothing, I'll drag it over there out of the way. But NO. Escape is futile, you can never leave.
Would someone care to enlighten me as to what is the point of a floating UI element that you can't move out of the way on to another screen?
So what do I put on the left screen? Windows Explorer, where I can get to my network places, but for what good it does, because the Toxic window border is an inpenitrable barrier throughwhich nothing shall pass either way. So I can't float stuff on the other screen? Like File browsers and suchlike, or a full screen player view? I can only view the thing while working either partially at full res, or the whole frame shrunken down. On that topic, where is the button to zoom to fit the window?
Think how you (or at least I) work in Max. I have it maximised on my right monitor, and all the floating bits, material editor, layer manager, track view, pflow, render setup, environment settings, RFW, etc... get thrown across to the left to keep my viewports clear and uncluttered.
I guess it was designed by someone who never considered the possibility that some users may have a second monitor they would like to utilise.
I don't wish to seem too harsh about what seems to be a well loved program, and I do appriciate any help and guidance. I just think there is room for improvement already and would like to show the dev team the right direction.
On the plus, it does seem better than Fusion for playing out HD footage. I think 'cos it's 64 bit and my version of Fusion is 32 bit, the cache soon fills up. And I've yet to see any buggy glitchy behaviour from it.

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

You can float windows, in the Views Panel R-Click | 'Open in Window'. Now you can move it off to the side like in Max.

-Eric

[Anonymous]

hey samab,

i didn't meant to imply that something might be wrong with your intention to drag files from the windows browser to the schematic, or another place in composite. i honestly think that it is a wide mis-understanding on how the app's ui was meant to be used (imho, that is). think about it that way: you are a full time compositor. you comp your way through most of the day. so, an application should give you everything you need to do your job (feature limitations aside). in case of an comp app, you need to browse to your files, you may need to re-shuffle some files, deleate files, and you need to browse to the place where you want to save your files. so, the app needs to provide you with a means to do all that, WITHOUT ever leaving the application. the browser inside composite does exactly that. and more! it is not only about collapsed file sequences, but also about previewing and getting additional information. and , again, all that, without leaving the application you work in. this "you never need to leave the application you work in" attitude shines through some other places, too. like, composite/toxik started in full-screen mode by default. it somewhat clumpsy behavior t handle a two monitor set-up. i think it all comes from the "flame mind set".

... Would someone care to enlighten me as to what is the point of a floating UI element that you can’t move out of the way on to another screen? ...

well, you can, as eric wrote. but i dare to say, just don't use floating windows. they feel to me like they where hacked in. they were never part of the original workflow concept. you don#t need them if you let yourself into the workflow concept of composite. i think adsk didn't do itself a favor when leaving that path. a lot of other things you would expect which should be possible with floating windows aren't possible.
you may say, yeah, ok, but i like to work that way... i don't want to be forced by an app to change my good old habits. you've got the right to think so. but then again. every application is build around a certain workflow idea and will force you to adopt that workflow idea. even windows, or mac-os forces you to do things a certain way. if you like that, or not. i think, if you try to work the composite way, you may start to like it. who knows, but at least you can try it.

cheers!
rayk