Batch snapshot setups

[rgnbetts]

I really like the batch snapshots in 2014 but trying to workout if saving your snapshot the traditional way is really needed. It feels like you are doubling up. 

My only concern is that I can't find where the setups are being saved when you bump up a snapshot version. I have done a test between Flame and Flare and all you need is the snapshot. It contains all the media you need and the setup.

My problem is that smoke can't read the snapshots setups. We are running a beta of 2014 smoke.

A workaround would be to save the setup old skool but this brings up my earliyer point that it feels like I am doubling up.

Does anyone have an opinion on snapshot workflow or know where the snapshot setups are saved when you bump up a version.

Cheers

[renegagnon79]

Hi there,

We have the same question/problem regarding this workflow here too.

We are mainly using smoke to comp and finish our commercials but also have a flare where we will send out work that can be done outside of the supervised smoke session.

Our flare artist mainly uses BFX in the timeline so that the setups are sent back and forth between flare and smoke. This workflow seemed to work until a few days ago.

While using flare, the artist saved the snapshot and setups at first but then, was only saving the setups for the rest of the day. He spent 8 hours doing roto and pan and scan work. At the end of the day, he saved the BFX setup (only) thinking that the next day, he could just load that setup and continue working.

But to our surprise, all he had in the setup was the first save of the day, the one with the snapshot. The rest of the working day was not saved in the setup. It appears that if you are in BFX in the timeline in flare, you ALWAYS have to save both the setup and the snapshot so that you keep all your work... Not fun to find out the next day!

This was with version 2013 SP4. I am surprised to see that in 2014, smoke still is not using the REAL batch (i.e. flame's batch). I believed that BFX was actually batch now and that you were able to load batch setups into BFX...

I guess I stand corrected...

So here is my question: What should be the correct workflow between flare and smoke? How can we share setups between the 2? Is it better to work in batch in flare, then render the work and export/wire (we do not have a SAN yet) to the smoke machines or hope that if we work in BFX, that we can save our setups and load them the next day? (i.e. a case was opened with support for the BFX setup not saved)

I will go even further... A few weeks ago, I found out that if you enter a BFX session in the timeline, smoke does not create a _session backup of your work. So if for some reason, you have to exit BFX without saving, when you go back into your BFX from the timeline, your work is lost. So let's say that you work for a couple of hours on a roto, and the director asks you to show him a clip that lives on your desktop, you need to save your BFX setup before exiting or else, you lose all your work. And 2 hours of your time...

Is this behaviour fixed in 2014? I sure hope so...

Guess I needed to vent a little this morning!

Thanks! 😉

Rene

[rgnbetts]

I can confirm that batch setups from Flare will work on the smoke.

Any nodes you might have used that aren't available in smoke appear in your schmetic but there are no tools to adjust. For example, if you used the 3D keyer on the flare then smoke will have the matte as part of the batch chain but no changes to the keyer can be made.

I was just hoping that the new 2014 batch snapshots, which bundles all of you source media and includes the setup, could be used on the 2014 smoke but it appears that it can not. This would be fine if there was a way of extracting the setup from the snapshot. You can still extract the media but I have no idea where the setup goes.

Any ideas?

[renegagnon79]

Hey,

Thanks for testing this out... It is very appreciated.

As for the setups, they are usually saved under /usr/discreet/project/<project_name>/batch/<software_name>

If you save the snapshot and the setups, they should be there. And that's either with regular batch or BFX from the timeline. At least, it does on our flare 2013 system.

So I guess what you are saying is that the way snapshot works in 2014 is different than what it was in 2013?

Can you again reassure me on this?

Cheers,

Rene

[rgnbetts]

The new feature in 2014 concerning batch snapshots is when you save your snapshot your setup gets saved automaticaly and is bundled inside your snapshot. Your snapshot appears in your media hub, zipped up like a container. To load the batch all you need to do is double click on the snapshot container or drag into the batch space. This loads all your media and creates your batch tree.

I have been testing snapshots between Flame and Flare and all you need to bring up the setup is the snapshot container. It has all the media you need and the setup.

It works brilliantly. There is another advantage that when you save your snapshot you have the option to replace the previous version or 'bump'. 'Bump' will automaticaly up a version number and save off another snapshot.

However Smoke can see the snapshot container and extract the media from within but it doesn't see the setup. I want to know where the setups are saved.

Just to reassure you can still maually save your setup in the traditional manner. This is a workaround for smoke compatability but it feels like a double up.

[jaseo · Accepted solution]

Hi Richard,

Smoke does not have batch, and therefore no batch snapshots.

In flame/flare, the batch snapshots are saved as kind of clip library, with the setups embedded in this file as well as the clips.

(look in /usr/discreet/clip/stonefs7/<project>/workspaceXXXXX.wksp)

the batch setup is also saved as history in their respective history folder, but it will be called something like he993930a_52d88645_00033b13, so saving manually as a setup is easiest way to get a get a flame batch setup into smoke BFX. Having a saved batch setup is also a good backup.

cheers

Jason

[rgnbetts]

Thanks Jason,

It does feel like I am doubling up but when it comes to setups better to be safe than sorry. Not just for Smoke Flame compatablity but also project security.

[renegagnon79]

Hey Jason,

I am trying to find those workspace files on our systems and I can't find any.

Are those new to 2014 or the Anniversary Edition?

We are still running 2013 SP4...

Are those also only in flame/flare or should they be present working in smoke as well?

My guess is since it is batch, they should be created only when working in flame/flare.

Thank you all for your tests and clarifications. It is really appreciated.

Cheers,

Rene

[jaseo]

Hi Rene,

Good to see you around! I remember all the tech-tips that you put together 🙂

Yeah, workspaces were introduced to the anniversary edition. They are in both flame and smoke.

the batch snapshots (clip library and history containing batch setups) are only in flame/flare as smoke does not have batch.

cheers

Jason

[rgnbetts · Accepted solution]

I have since discovered a preference in 'Timeline FX / BFX'. Turn on the button under Batch Snapshot that says 'Also Save Batch File'.

This saves a setup file for you in your batch folder. When you archive your setups smoke can read these files.

[Grant.Kay]

Hi All,

I have just started reading this post and I thought I would chime in to help clear up the speculation.

Firstly, the batch snapshot function was only designed for a Flame and Flare workflow.   The idea was to give you a means to iterate your flow graphs as you build the composites.  It was never intended to be used with Smoke on the Mac.  In fact, as I am sure you know, Smoke only has the Library component of the Workspace and no Desktop.    This is one of the distinct differences between the applications and we hope that as time goes on, this distinction will become even clearer.

However, looking at the current situation, moving setups between Smoke on the Mac and Flare/Flame, your best bet would be to make BFX and CFX clips and move those between the applications.   If this does work than it will be way better just saving a text batch setup.   

The text batch setup does not link to the media.  So loading the setup between systems will land you in the situation of manaully relinking all your media.  The CFX or BFX contains everything including the media into a clip which you than can explode between applications.

I know this works when moving CFX clips to Flame or BFX clips between Flames and Flares.  I am not sure if BFX clips to Smoke is supported due to the feature difference.

The team are aware of all the current workflows and things are bubbling away in Canada 🙂

Hope this helps!

Regards

Grant