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Archibus vs FM:Systems

36 REPLIES 36
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Message 1 of 37
Kevin_Van
3183 Views, 36 Replies

Archibus vs FM:Systems

Hello all.
I'm new to the FM world but have lots of experience with Autocad.
Where I recently started to work, we have Archibus v12. We are at a crossroads as to whether to upgrade to Archibus v15 or move to FM:Systems. Important features include interaction with Autocad, ability to customize the software to our needs, asset management & reporting.
Anyone & all opinions are appreciated.
Thanks
36 REPLIES 36
Message 2 of 37
mark.evans
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Hi Kevin,

I think the best thing you could do, short of getting a free trial of each, would be to have an in depth conversation with current users of each of the applications you are considering. This may be hard with something as new as Archibus 15, but they should be able to give you some references.

Another key thing will be to accurately estimate the costs. It would be tempting to minimize the cost/effort in staying with Archibus, but three versions may be as intensive as starting with a new vendor. On the other hand, different systems may have very different ways of doing things -- so the switching cost to a new vendor is always high. No clear answer here, but the key is to spend some time thinking realistically about the switching costs.

Mark


Mark Evans
Senior Product Manager
AEC Division, Simulation Product Line
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 3 of 37
Kevin_Van
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Thanks for the response Mark. You're right, there is no clear cut answer, so the search continues.
Does anyone know how much of the CAFM market share each owns?
- Kevin
Message 4 of 37
mark.evans
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Kevin,

This is a difficult question to answer because Archibus, FM:Systems, and most of the CAFM vendors are private companies. Archibus, for example, closely guards their revenue numbers. My research and somewhat educated guesses say that Archibus has between 4X or 5X the revenue as FM:Systems. In looking at those numbers, remember that Archibus has many more dealers outside the US than FM:Systems.

I would encourage you to look at FM Desktop by Applied Spatial Technologies. Customers whom I have spoken with recently say their decision came down to almost a coin toss between FM:Systems and FM Desktop.


Mark Evans
Senior Product Manager
AEC Division, Simulation Product Line
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 5 of 37
bawall
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Changing from Archibus to FM Systems is a long drawn out process - there were features in Archibus that I really liked that are not in FM Systems. It has taken us a year and we're still not where we want to be. The only advantage with changing is the cost, Archibus is more expensive than FM Systems to upgrade, so you have to weigh that into the equation. I liked Archibus and was sorry we changed, but now feel FM will do just fine.
Message 6 of 37
mghall
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Kevin_Van,

We've been using the FM:Systems products since 1994. Every couple of years or so a coworker and I do a "relook" at some of the other packages that are out there, including Archibus. We seem to always come back with the same conclusiion - what we have is working well for what we want it to do. That doesn't mean it's a perfect application and there are times when we wish it would do something it doesn't or wish it didn't have some bug that it does. But we've always found FM:Systems to be very responsive to what we have to say.

I'm sure FM:Systems and Archibus would both be willing to demo their products for you and both happily try to show you that they'll do what you want. FM:Systems also has relationships with what they call Solution Providers. These are independent companies who may or may not also implement other software depending on what they think would be the best solution given what the customer/client wants. FM:Systems would share the names of those Solution Providers with you. I would recommend doing both those things, ask the difficult questions, and try to see the differences between the two.

From our experience, regarding the specific areas you asked about:

re AutoCAD: I have very few problems related to the connection between FM:Space and AutoCAD. It's rare that I have any trouble here. You can run/save both simple and complex queries to crosshatch rooms. You can annotate rooms with whatever data is in the database related to each room. Etc.

re customization: We've customized here and there throughout the program. There are numerous points at which you can customize. Obviously, you probably need to leave some basic program in tact. But there's a lot you can do through custom views, when starting reports, separate custom programs, etc.

re: asset management: We don't do any full-blown asset management using FM:Space. A person who tracks office equipment does use it for that purpose and we display that information on the floor plans on the web site.

re: reporting: FM:Systems has a great standard report writer with which you can do a lot in a very short period of time. If you want reports that are fancier or more complex, you will need Crystal Reports. CR works great but is a whole 'nother level of complexity and commitment of time (as far as I'm concerned.)

Hope this helps.

Merle
Message 7 of 37
steve_segarra
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Hi Kevin:

Full disclosure: I'm an Archibus dude.

Actually, a three-version jump isn't a problem. V15 will read v12 drawing and data files completely unchanged. You get the new core features (e.g. ADT support, AutoCAD 2006 support, etc.) just with an uninstall and reinstall.

If you want to use the newer applications (e.g. capital budgeting, project management, document management) then you need to upgrade your database, but Archibus includes a wizard for that.

If you have focused needs, you might ask after the Archibus Express and Facilotor or "single site" options. These install without IT support, come with step-by-step tutorials, cover space, asset management, telecom, leases, etc. And they're priced competitive to the low-end packages.

Express and Facilotor also have all the Archibus extensions for defining your own reports, extending the CAD environment, etc.

If your needs grow, you can move up to the Enterprise package without needing any data conversion, staff retraining, etc.

Regards,

Steve
ARCHIBUS, Inc.
Message 8 of 37
Bill J
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Hi Kevin,

As a product independent CAFM services provider I use all 3 of the products that are discussed in these threads. All 3 are good products and have their strengths and weaknesses, but none of the 3 are the "best" for all situations, which is why I remain product independent. The best fit for you comes down to your company's specific needs and requirements, existing and future.

If you are interested, I would be happy to go over your specific situation and how each software application measures up to your needs by phone. The phone call will be in compliance with the ground rules of this forum and will not be used to sell you any of my services. I'll post my email address in a reply should you be interested.

regards,
Bill
Message 9 of 37
bob
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Kevin,
If you are using ARCHIBUS v12, and your important features are interaction with AutoCAD, ability to customize, asset mgmt, and reporting, you should stay with ARCHIBUS.

Let me explain why...
- most important, your data. As Steve mentions in another reply, there is no migration needed to gor from v 12 -> v 15 unless you need to incorporate the newer security features, the newer activities and/or Web Central.
- just as important to your data is your time (and that of the other users of the system). The is 0 learning curve when going to the newer version. As with AutoCAD upgrades, you can continue using AutoCAD the way you always have whenever you upgrade... and as you stumble upon the new capabilities, slowly start to make them a part of your work process. Same with ARCHIBUS, the navigator doesn't change, though there are newer interfaces available (Process Navigator for example), reporting doesn't change, basic functionality doesn't change... although there are a number of cool new user interface improvements. Bottom line, no loss of production time.
- integration with AutoCAD? I may be biased, but with the ARCHIBUS API tools available with the product, there isn't anything, and I mean ANYTHING, that cannot be accomplished, if the need is there. In my opinion, the integration with AutoCAD is 2nd to none.
- Customization? Heck, about the only thing you can't customize in ARCHIBUS are the core pull-down menus and the font style in the menus. You, the user, have control over the navigation Menus, unlimited ad-hoc reporting, unlimited custom table & field creation (from within the application... no need for a DBA to get involved), easy built-in import/export to Excel, short-cut creation...
- Asset Mgmt? it's all there in the Fruniture & Equipment module. Standards, audit surveys, warranties, leases, etc.
Message 10 of 37
Kevin_Van
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Mark, Steve, bawall, hallmerle, Bill & cafmboss - thank you very much for all the insights.
Tomorrow we have a FM:Systems demo. They have done one previously for the office but it was before I hired on 2 months ago. I think it is fair to say, the current setup (Archibus) hasn't been adequately utilized, staffed or implemented, so that is the reason for the new software hunt. Throwing new software at a problem is never a solution.
I've been using Archibus for the 2 month now& finding it is pretty robust & customizable. Having no experience FM:Systems, I'm curious to see any differences between each of them. I'm thinking they are considerably more alike than different. The $$ question is - identifying our specific operational needs & staffing (current & future), than selecting the better program.
I'll be back tomorrow to validate any claims.
- Kevin
Message 11 of 37
Kevin_Van
in reply to: Kevin_Van

I just finished the FM:System's demo - very impressive, especially the web interface that uses DWFs to do on-the-fly queries. The Autocad side (base xrefs w/ polyline & block links to the database) looks the same as Archibus. I'm seeing the real planning involves what DB objects get put in what xref to share data among multiple users.
Last week, we had an all-to-quick 1 hour demo of Archibus 15, so I don't know all the Archibus features to compare it to FM:Systems fairly. Can anyone with experience with both packages offer an opinion on their publishing, reporting & querying capabilities.

Also to Bill J; I'd like to followup with your offer. How can we talk?

Thanks again for any & all help.
Message 12 of 37
Bill J
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Kevin,

The CAFM community is a tight one. Based on the information in my first email to you, there are a number of people in this discussion group that know who I am, including Archibus and FM:Systems employees. Through this post, I am requesting them to pass on my contact info to you directly. I expect you will be getting it from them sometime today.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

regards,
Bill
Message 13 of 37
jwulf
in reply to: Kevin_Van

According to Applied Spatial's website, Autodesk acquired FMDesktop. It will be interesting to see what Autodesk does with FMDesktop.
Message 14 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Kevin_Van

:shock: aaaaah...

http://www.appliedspatial.com/ "Autodesk is confident that FMDesktop
is the right product with the right vision for our customers," said Jay
Bhatt, vice president, Building Solutions Division, Autodesk. "We are
committed to the facilities management market and will continue to develop
new products and services to help space planners and facility managers
realize their ideas."
As part of the acquisition agreement, Autodesk plans to support FMDesktop
customers and honor existing subscription agreements. Both Bob Fahlin and
Dusty Smith will be joining the Autodesk Building Solutions Division team as
part of the acquisition of FMDesktop.

Bob will continue to be heavily involved in the design and enhancement of
both current and future Autodesk Facility solution offerings.

Dusty will join Autodesk in sales and marketing development activities that
will engage, expose and educate the Autodesk user community about the
features, functions and uses for FMDesktop and future FM centric Autodesk
technologies.

http://72.22.64.191/ACQFAQ.htm FAQ's on the acquisition



wrote in message news:5045903@discussion.autodesk.com...
According to Applied Spatial's website, Autodesk acquired FMDesktop. It will
be interesting to see what Autodesk does with FMDesktop.
Message 15 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Take a look at FM Desktop www.fmdesktop.com
Autodesk just acquired them.

Brian
www.brianmorse.com


wrote in message news:5028512@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello all.
I'm new to the FM world but have lots of experience with Autocad.
Where I recently started to work, we have Archibus v12. We are at a
crossroads as to whether to upgrade to Archibus v15 or move to FM:Systems.
Important features include interaction with Autocad, ability to customize
the software to our needs, asset management & reporting.
Anyone & all opinions are appreciated.
Thanks
Message 16 of 37
autocadguru
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Full disclosure here. My name is Shaun Bryant and I am an independent consultant based in the UK. I have a high degree of experience with ARCHIBUS/FM and FM Desktop and I am an Autodesk Approved Instructor up to AutoCAD 2006. I also train on ARCHIBUS and FM Desktop.

Looking at your situation, you have a number of things to consider: -

-Existing legacy information
-Budget
-Retraining
-Management level "buy-in"

If you have a suitable budget, stick with ARCHIBUS/FM. All of your legacy info will be OK and retraining will be minimal. The asset management in ARCHIBUS is excellent. However, FM Desktop is also a very capable solution if budget constraints become apparent. FM Desktop is very customisable, has a superb open AutoCAD methodology and utilises Autodesk DWF technology. FM Desktop has also recently been acquired by Autodesk which I think can only be a step in the right direction.

Conclusions:
ARCHIBUS offers a method forward which allows usage of your legacy information with minimal training but there could be cost implications. FM Desktop now offers a fully Autodesk'ed solution which is simple and effective and inexpensive but will require some training. My personal view would be to get demos of both products (or install eval versions) and get some hands-on time on both products. You will probably like the look of the FM Desktop front end technology (very Outlook!) compared to the slightly dated look of the ARCHIBUS windows client application but do not let this influence your decision. Each application has its own merits and pitfalls and you need to measure each product against your needs and requirements.

Also, remember that it's not your money you will be spending so make sure you get management "buy-in" for whichever product you choose!

I hope my humble opinions help you make a decision and if you need any further help, please pop me an email on info@stj2.com.

Regards

Shaun Bryant
Message 17 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Hi Kevin,

We at FacilityNow, inc. have worked with Archibus extensively in the past, as well as Facilitycenter, vision FM and others. # years ago we stumbled upon FM Desktop. We were blown away by it's cost, ease of use and features. The man behind FM Desktop, Bob Fahlin, used to be a Facility manager, not just a programmer, so he 'get's it" when it comes to the needs of FMs. Our support of the product was validated recently by Autodesks purchase of FM Desktop. I felt FMD was the best CAFM product on the market before the acquisition, and Firmly expect it to only get Better and will before long, be "the" FM product on the market to have. If you've not seen it or played with it, i highly recommend you do so before putting more time and money into Archibus.

Good luck
Message 18 of 37
autocadguru
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Dan

I have to admit that I do think that FMDesktop is an excellent piece of software and with the Autodesk acquisition I think it will soon be giving the big FM boys a run for their money. However, products such as ARCHIBUS/FM are still very good in an enterprise environment because their processes are very rigid and remain so for each user. All the same though, I do know Bob Fahlin and his FM expertise is second to none and his loyalties will always be to the FM managers out there. So when it comes to FMDesktop, I say, watch this space, good things will happen!
Message 19 of 37
Kevin_Van
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Thanks everyone for all the opinions and help. Our evaluation is continuing. I'm assembling a spreadsheet of the strengths/weaknesses as it relates to each products features. This will help the decision making process. The difficulty has been getting the facts for apples to apples comparison.

One very important feature that I'm getting conflicting information on is each product's web interface - Archibus WebCenter & FM:System's FM:Interact. In general, does either have any strengths over the other - such as users having ease of access to the data they need, deployment & website maintenance?

Specifically, can anyone validate the following claims regarding WebCenter. (Read into this none of these issues will occur with FM:Interact).
- We need a team of webmasters to provide usability to WebCenter.
- Supporting it, we have to do custom, laborious scripting or effort to provide current plan (DWFs) to web users (FM:S does this on the fly without add'l effort)
- Access to edit the data through the web interface is limited to certain features and the type/quantity/cost of licenses.

Back to the market share question: I'm told by one source it's Abus 66% vs FM:S 2% (in 2004). Another source says it's approximately equal at 10% each. Anyone know of a more quantitative percentage or can point me to a better source (i.e. Gardner)?
Message 20 of 37
mark.evans
in reply to: Kevin_Van

Kevin,

Here at Autodesk, we subscribe to Gartner and other sources of marketing data. I can't come up with these market share numbers and it's my job. Your question is very tough when you are trying to compare two privately held companies that don't report any numbers to Gartner.


Mark Evans
Senior Product Manager
AEC Division, Simulation Product Line
Autodesk, Inc.

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