Is Design Review discontinued?

[Anonymous]

So all the 2014 products are out now but Design Review 2014 is conspicuous in its absence. It isn't available for download (still only 2013 available) and it hasn't been included in any of the other product installers where it always has been in the past.

Have I missed something or is this the end of the road?

[Anonymous]

No it has not discontinued 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sharing this information.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sharing this useful information.

[tom.burton]

Scott-

I wonder if there could be some basic improvement to Design Review, the following:

Ability to have  a custom workspace load automatically on startup.

-Tom Burton

[a_meteni]

Hi @tom.burton ,i think Scott Sheppard was very clear in one of his posts in this thread that no further enhancements will take place. Simply ADR is dead. 

Regarding the Workspace issue, you may customize it and load it manually from the Options editor.

[scott.sheppard]

Although there are still some customers using Autodesk Design Review, I don't see us adding any enhancements. The code for Design Review is closely coupled with Microsoft Windows. In other words, it won't run on an iPhone, tablet, Android, or Mac as is. Tablets are commonplace on construction sites as markup tools. Consumers have phones. So instead of spending resources on Design Review, we can satisfy more of our customers by working on BIM 360 with those resources instead. Our goal is to make seamless workflows where all of the data stays in the cloud and files eventually become a thing of the past. I used to download songs from iTunes. Now I just stream them from Spotify. Design and make data should be like that.

[Anonymous]

This turned into a longer post than I thought it would. It also became a bit of a hijack from Design Review but I think we can all agree by now that DR did not manage to become the PDF of the cad world?

I hear about 360 all the time but here's my thing with 360...we still need Navisworks! And there is no development being done with it, come on really, 360 simply does not replace Navisworks - does anyone feel different? The only advantages 360 brings is issue tracking and I can get that with other products. Anyone use BimTrack? Take a look at what others like Revizto & Fuzor are doing and you can see the ground lost is remarkable. Now if I could only not pay for Navisworks!

What 360 does bring is allowing me to push models to a TABLET (really Autodesk needs to divert from simply iPad support) for my site staff...but wait I'm in Canada, remember us? My corporate policy requires our cloud data be safe harboured in Canada (yes it is spelled with a 'U' up here 😉 ) and 360 has both American and European servers and even though it uses AWS and there are Canadian servers Autodesk dose not use them. SO... Navisworks and workarounds it is.

[bbeilke]

Our goal is to make seamless workflows where all of the data stays in the cloud and files eventually become a thing of the past. I used to download songs from iTunes. Now I just stream them from Spotify. Design and make data should be like that.

Yeah, that sounds all cutting edge and cool and everything.  The typical, arrogant we're smarter than you and know what what you really need whether know it yet or not.  No offense intended, but that is spoken like someone with very little real-world construction experience who has spent little time away from WiFi hotspots in major metropolitan areas. 

Out here in the rest of the country, things are a bit different.  Even though we live in an area with a population of just under 500,000 people, there are cellular dead spots all over.  Come and visit me at some of our typically rural work sites and the only music you'll be listening to is what you have downloaded to your phone.  And don't even get me started about cloud-based data security.

Instead of sitting around in your team meetings mocking all of us who apparently just aren't tech savvy and smart enough to understand your grand vision, maybe you could ask yourselves how you've taken something so trivial as providing your customers a portable viewer to view their existing data on their device of choice and turned it into a transparent play to get your customers to pay for your cloud services.  It's great that you provide those services for those who actually want them.  It's another matter when you force your customers to use those services by eliminating other options.

[WM_Ron_Allen]

@Anonymous 360 Team and Bim 360 have android apps(Check Google Play). Integration and device access improves monthly.

Glue is catching up to Navis in the 360 Platform; 360 Document Management allows COMPREHENSIVE design through construction issue tracking and management in an Integrated Environment.

Apple is dying- only a matter of time now. Bentley is in deep trouble too... If (when) Autodesk pulls of it's BRIM/CIM/BIM integrations for 3D Modeling of roadways, bridges and heavy civil- they will be the only design software group with a fully integrated package to handle concept through design and construction and Facilities management & IOT.

Getting Luddites to shift will be quite an obstacle, but I imagine this will put Autodesk ahead for the next 5- 10 years.

Civil 3D has some pretty interesting changes in 2019 you should take a look at.

[Anonymous]

Thx Ron!

Unfortunately I have no interaction with civil as we do mech/elec fabrication and site installation, but yes I agree it is coming along the problem is what do I do in the interim? Right now we need to learn/develop a Navisworks centric workflow that uses our Citrix servers which are safe harboured in country, so as much as I'd like to stay in the ADSK ecosystem I'm being forced to look elsewhere.  IF could get in country servers up here in the vast north I'd love to fully integrate 360. Also in order to get proper granular clash detection I need to stay with N until B360 is a bit more mature

[WM_Ron_Allen]

@bbeilke - I realize there are dead zones. I realize too,  5G and other internet access is coming along with offline files in the 360 app.

I didn't support Autodesk as much as I have been until after they moved to the cloud.  I was among those who complained and moaned about perpetual licensing going bye bye, but I also realized they are keeping pace with reality. If I cannot budget for technology and its use my business will die.

Because of the cloud Autodesk can update immediately when a critical issue is spotted in software as opposed to waiting months or a year or more to release another package. Integration can happen faster than before- and continues to lag in our industry as it has been over the past 70 years.  A  Leroy is by no means a word processor.

The amounts and types of data we have to deal with across GIS, BRIM, CIM, BIM, Data Management, Data acquisition, Asset Management, Facilities Management and operations and soon to be IOT with 5G is staggering and the flow is increasing. Are you Familiar with Moore's law? It is STEEPER than the internet access you see below (from https://ourworldindata.org) and represents the trend of processing power and storage capacity in technology as data goes digital. If there is a market- it will be developed. If there is a gap- human innovation finds a way to get by or make it better.

Each Human being's brain is wired differently; and we are all fighting capitalistic notions to come up with the next best way of doing things so we can retire and just have fun for the rest of our lives.  In that struggle amidst all of the chaos, occasionally we get a quantum leap in innovation - which is what Autodesk has done with the 360 Platform. I have been waiting 20 years to have a better way to work LIVE and they are doing it now.

• In the 360 apps- there are options to download files
• Job sites are putting up portable WIFI connections on site for IOT tracking and connectivity
• Offline data capture is possible

[pendean]

Nice rant: but you took a lot out of context way beyond what anyone wrote.

ADR is not going anywhere: and since you have no need to wireless anything, the good news is ADR is not being developed for that either. You can keep using it as is, it is good enough for what it does.

Win Win!

[WM_Ron_Allen]

@bbeilke - I realize there are dead zones. I realize too,  5G and other internet access is coming along with offline files in the 360 app.

I didn't support Autodesk as much as I have been until after they moved to the cloud.  I was among those who complained and moaned about perpetual licensing going bye bye, but I also realized they are keeping pace with reality. If I cannot budget for technology and its use my business will die.

Because of the cloud Autodesk can update immediately when a critical issue is spotted in software as opposed to waiting months or a year or more to release another package. Integration can happen faster than before- and continues to lag in our industry as it has been over the past 70 years.  A  Leroy is by no means a word processor.

The amounts and types of data we have to deal with across GIS, BRIM, CIM, BIM, Data Management, Data acquisition, Asset Management, Facilities Management and operations and soon to be IOT with 5G is staggering and the flow is increasing. Are you Familiar with Moore's law? It is STEEPER than the internet access you see below (from https://ourworldindata.org) and represents the trend of processing power and storage capacity in technology as data goes digital. If there is a market- it will be developed. If there is a gap- human innovation finds a way to get by or make it better.

Each Human being's brain is wired differently; and we are all fighting capitalistic notions to come up with the next best way of doing things so we can retire and just have fun for the rest of our lives.  In that struggle amidst all of the chaos, occasionally we get a quantum leap in innovation - which is what Autodesk has done with the 360 Platform. I have been waiting 20 years to have a better way to work LIVE and we are doing it now in 360.

• In the 360 apps- there are options to download files
• Job sites are putting up portable WIFI connections on site for IOT tracking and connectivity
• Offline data capture is possible

[WM_Ron_Allen]

Ah security! Dealing with DFARS, SOC, FEDramp here in the US... I know AD is working on it, but I do agree they aren't there yet. IMO Navis will be replaced by GLUE if/when security and cloud integration can come to a consensus. Safe harbor in a data center is a solution- (Surprised Autodesk+Amazon doesn't offer that as a service...) but also imagine it would be expensive. Files can be downloaded.

With Design-build IPD BIM- HVAC can be fab'd off site and brought in- put together like a big erector set. Requires integrating point clouds in your workflow to mm accuracy with back-check and verification as the project progresses, but the workflow is there (Check out Verity and Clearedge).

[bbeilke]

Wrong again!  I still have no way to copy all the files I need (offline) to a memory card, stick that card into my phone or tablet, and be able to view those files in an Autodesk viewer straight off the card without the cloud.  I guess you missed the part of my "rant" where I said:  providing your customers a portable viewer to view their existing data on their device of choice.

I also never said that I had "no need to wireless anything".  We already make use of wireless when conditions permit and we do it without any 3rd party cloud service.  I'd be very happy with a viewer that would allow me to access data wirelessly or from my local device memory.  It is Autodesk that apparently doesn't want to provide that functionality because then users could circumvent their cloud offerings. 

Here's a dirty little secret.  In the past I've uploaded files to A360 from my computer, logged into A360 from my phone while connected to WiFi and viewed each of the files that I previously uploaded and from that point on - at least for the time frame I needed them - those files were available locally on my phone.  In other words, they were downloaded to a hidden location on the phone, apparently with a hashed name.  So any talk that these new viewers are somehow not compatible with local files is BS.

A few other comments:

Because of the cloud Autodesk can update immediately when a critical issue is spotted in software as opposed to waiting months or a year or more to release another package. 

No software company has to wait months or a year to fix "critical issues".  That is routinely done today using hotfixes and services packs without a requirement for cloud-based software.

The amounts and types of data we have to deal with across GIS, BRIM, CIM, BIM, Data Management, Data acquisition, Asset Management, Facilities Management and operations and soon to be IOT with 5G is staggering and the flow is increasing. 

Surely you don't believe that all construction projects require or use all of those data streams.  If yours do, great.  Now you may consider me a "Luddite" (another derogatory for those who aren't so enlightened), but for me, most of that is just dead weight in a software offering.  We don't build roads and bridges.  We are not a multinational operation.  We design, fabricate and erect rock crushing/processing plants in our own quarries that are most often in rural locations and with work often occurring in a 300-400 foot deep pit - areas not conducive to high-speed internet access and areas not likely to see 5G access anytime soon.  We do all of our design work in Inventor mixed in with some AutoCAD and Civil 3D for earthwork activities.  We supply our contractors with a set of contract documents including any drawings they will need.  These contract documents are intended to be static documents.  Any changes required are done through a change order process and reissued as an addendum to the contract along with any associated financial implications.  Because of the lag time between engineering design and fabrication, all of our design work is complete well before any field activities begin.  We have zero need for "real-time" design data.

• In the 360 apps- there are options to download files

As I mentioned above, that is true, but only after you've wasted (in my case) time uploading those files to their cloud in the first place.  What possible reason is there for not just allowing the user to point that same viewing software to a folder of files on a local memory card and skip the middleman (the cloud)?  Hmm.

To be clear, I am not against cloud services in general.  I've been a network administrator at a Fortune 500 company in the fairly recent past and contrary to the perceptions some here may have, I'm am far from a technology "Luddite".  My issue is being coerced into using a cloud product for which I currently have no need.  If, at some point in the future, the dynamics of our project workflow changes and the connectivity issues we currently deal with are resolved, I'd be happy to reconsider.  Right now, all I want is a viewer on my phone and/or tablet that can read my files off of my memory card.

[pendean]

Nice Rant, but you chose to live and work where you do, Autodesk and other software/technology vendors choose to ignore those smaller markets so far.

Your solutions, if any, are going to have to come from startups and smaller firms looking for a market.

Reality bites: don't be such a willing victim, turn it into an action to find solutions from others if your current service providers are not playing.

[bbeilke]

What an fool.  Let me count the ways:

1:  I live in an area of just under half a million residents that ranks 90th in the nation and is just 2.5 hours from Chicago.  If you think this is a "smaller market", you have little understanding of the demographics of the United States.  (And FWIW, I don't care if you live in the USA or not.)

2.  My solution already exist.  All Autodesk has to do is allow the A360 app easily access local files without first uploading them to their cloud just so you can turn around and download them to your device.

3.  It is people like you who are the willing victims when you just stand by and make excuses for the anti-consumer actions of "software/technology vendors" while they are simultaneously sticking their hands in your wallet.  

4.  Reading comprehension must not be your strength as I've already said my company has its own "cloud" service in areas where communications allow it use.  We don't need Autodesk to try force us into their cloud with intentional, built-in limitations to their software.

 If you don't have anything better to contribute than some meaningless tropes you picked up in a third-rate business school, please don't bother responding to me.

[WM_Ron_Allen]

So you have access to download after uploding to the cloud-

and can pre-cache files for viewing files offline, - so if that doesn't solve the issue...

What you are lacking and desire is to view files that you have kept on a SD or Flash drive separate from the project?

I could see an advantage accessing files secure on flash drives for those working in secure data ~ not having to use the cloud.

What data do you need to see? 3D models? Flat-cad sheet sets? Inventory lists?

Obviously you cannot directly open a full-fledged detailed Revit or Inventor file  on a phone or typical tablet- so the representative(IFC) models would have to suffice... or 3D PDF if you want portable 3D, Check BlueBeam's offering for static documents and work in PDF.

We, for the most part, work as if all those data streams are being or could be implemented. Working to a comprehensive process will work for limited scope process but not the other way round.

For the same reasons we moved from Mylar, blue-line, and hard copy to CAD... We are migrating from CAD to BIM as it provides direct communication and cost savings; especially as folks we whom we work integrate to this new and very different mindset. 

Working in 3D made me realize the power of integration- then the power of LIVE integration made me realize our potential- regardless of the number of players or the size of the project.

p.s.- "Luddites" was a separate jab at those fellow Architects and construction groups who actively decrying the adoption of 3D & BIM / Data streams because they believe 'Flat-CAD is faster and better' for the Design/Bid/Build process. Spoiler alert- it isn't! And for design/Build- it isn't even a viable contender anymore.

[scott.sheppard]

Re: "2.  My solution already exists.  All Autodesk has to do is allow the A360 app easily access local files without first uploading them to their cloud just so you can turn around and download them to your device."

When you view a CAD file in a browser on a PC, Mac, smartphone, or tablet, you are actually viewing an SVF (Simple Vector Format) file. This is an industry standard that browsers across platforms support. So when you upload the CAD file to the cloud, our server converts your data into SVF (on demand) so it can be viewed. The browser can cache the SVF file (as you have observed) but that cached file is only valid until the original data file changes. With A360, when the CAD file is updated, a new SVF file is generated as needed.

So it's not as if our browser-based viewer can just view a native CAD file on a thumb drive without the conversion process.

[rkmcswain]

bbeilke wrote:

3.  It is people like you who are the willing victims when you just stand by and make excuses for the anti-consumer actions of "software/technology vendors" while they are simultaneously sticking their hands in your wallet.  

I agree with your entire post here, but what other options are there with regard to #3? You can ask, wish, hope that a vendor provide the solution you want, or you can switch to a different vendor, right?