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Is Design Review discontinued?

326 REPLIES 326
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Message 1 of 327
FT398
32080 Views, 326 Replies

Is Design Review discontinued?

So all the 2014 products are out now but Design Review 2014 is conspicuous in its absence. It isn't available for download (still only 2013 available) and it hasn't been included in any of the other product installers where it always has been in the past.

 

Have I missed something or is this the end of the road?

326 REPLIES 326
Message 61 of 327
scott.sheppard
in reply to: taralis

Pete H:

 

Brian Mathews reported to me when he invented DWF, so I too have been there from the very start. Times change. DWF was invented because bandwidth was so low. We needed a file format that was smaller than DWG, but more importantly, we needed a file format that could be interpreted by a Netscape Navigator plug-in where the plug-in would be less that 400MB in size. The original WHIP! download was about 2MB. Now that times have changed, there are other ways to address sharing of design data that include mobile devices.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 62 of 327
scott.sheppard
in reply to: taralis

zlotinas:

 

"No clear announcements, no explanations, no future plans..."

 

I think that is a bit of an overstatement. There will be no future versions of Autodesk Design Review, but you are still free to download the free version of Autodesk Design Review 2013. The DWF file format is not changing, so the 2013 version will be compatible with DWF files produced in the future. Autodesk Design Review continues to be a part of the Autodesk Vault solution. Our future plans are to replace what DWF does today with web-based services as part of Autodesk 360 so collaboration can include desktop, laptop, tablet, sand smart phone devices.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 63 of 327
peteh
in reply to: scott.sheppard

Scott,

 

Thanks for your reply.  As long as Autodesk keeps the ability to create dwf files compatible with DR I will be happy. I am a programmer for our document management system and we have a couple hundred thousand files and use dwf as previews for the files.

 

I started programming way back with VB v2.  I have moved on to .NET now, but I can still run a VB v6 program on Windows 8.  Now I call that good compatibility support.

 

You should understand my concerns with Autodesk when you look back at all the product starts and stops.  When our company first looked at data management we were told by Autodesk that your Autodesk Workcenter product was the best for our company.  Just before we bought into it Autodesk canceled it.  Motiva was recommended to us instead.  That didn't last long.  The biggest red flag for me was when Autodesk said "Projects" are being removed from the Inventor product.  I wonder who made that decision and how it came about?   Thankfully the decision was reversed.  Also, how many years has Autodesk said they were no longer going to support VBA in AutoCAD while Microsoft was still supporting it in Office?

 

So, you see where I am going with this and I'm sure you can somewhat understand my concern about Autodesk support for their customers, products, and legacy formats.

Message 64 of 327
derek.gasch
in reply to: FT398

This sounds like a bad idea...kind of like Windows 8 without a Start menu.  I imagine most of us will probably jump to PDF.  We had to persuade (coerce) most of our non-CAD users to use Design Review anyway, so some of them may be pretty happy about this.  I just hate that I fought that battle and one, and now its having the plug pulled.  Too bad!  Our conversation has already begun regarding the future of our release process, because the cloud is not a preferable solution.

Message 65 of 327

The last few releases of AutoCAD put PDF on a par in terms of publishing and underlay capabilities.


Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 66 of 327
Tim.West
in reply to: scott.sheppard


@Anonymous wrote:
The last few releases of AutoCAD put PDF on a par in terms of publishing and underlay capabilities.

Except that pdf out of AutoCAD is as unreliable as Revit or ArchiCAD.

Curves loose their 'curvyness' Ortho loses its 'orthoness', just generally ugly.

.dwf seemed to keep a little more integrity of the data...

 

 

Message 67 of 327
scott.sheppard
in reply to: Tim.West

In the early days, DWF files could have curves that lost their shape. AutoCAD had a setting where you could set the DWF precision. When the precision was too low, the curves were no longer curves. 

 

http://dwf.blogs.com/beyond_the_paper/2006/12/common_dwf_publ_2.html

 

There may be a way to crank up the precision of a DWF file from Revit.

 

https://projectpoint.buzzsaw.com/_bz_web/ConstructionManagement/public/Blog/Download.dwn?SiteId=120&...



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 68 of 327
Tim.West
in reply to: scott.sheppard

Thanks for the links Scott.

Nice that info on dwf is published in .... pdf!!

 

I have had no issue with dwf vector quality from Revit (since 2008), bitmaps suck though. Vector quality in pdf (from Revit/AutoCAD/ArchiCAD) however is abysmal... Oh, I've already said that....

Message 69 of 327

Scott,

 

Now that my sacastic remark is out of the way, should those of us who use the DWF format extensively begin tranistioning to another format?  We have been using DWF exclusively since we went paperess (almost) in 2006 and while I understand that the DWF format isnt changing, without active development, I am not terribly comfortable with the idea that all of my legacy release data and new data going forward is in an old, unsupported program.

 

We have come to rely on Design Review and the DWF format.  We even worked with our IT deparment and they have written code to extract BOM data from the DWF through a web interface and import it directly into our ERP for our Project Engineers and Project Managers.

 

 

Message 70 of 327
pendean
in reply to: derek.gasch

While you wait... may I ask why do you rely on the built-in PDF driver if it does not meet your 'precision' needs? Lots of quality 3rd party PDF drivers out there with fewer limitations and much better output results for those needing perfection.
Message 71 of 327
scott.sheppard
in reply to: pendean

"Nice that info on dwf is published in .... pdf!!"

 

Even when DWF was in its hey day, we always said that PDF was perfect for documents. Users were not taking measurements from PDF files. We invented DWF because DWGs were too big at the time, and a browser plug-in to read a DWG was way too big at the time (think 300 baud modems). So we see no irony in DWF information being relayed in the PDF format.

 

For users who wish to stay up to date with technology, the path is that you continue to use DWF until web services are available that perform all of the functions that Autodesk Design Review does today. When those services are on par, you can switch. For those who have security aversions, as a large global company, it is possible that Autodesk spends more money on securing our servers than you do on securing yours. Think of CAD collaboration like electronic banking. CAD companies don't set up their own banks. In the future there may be situations though where our web services eventually get hosted by large companies who have specific needs. So whether it's a public or private cloud, the path forward is web-based services around one "source of truth," that is one set of CAD data on servers instead of publishing artifact DWF files.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 72 of 327
Lance127
in reply to: scott.sheppard

"So whether it's a public or private cloud, the path forward is web-based services around one "source of truth,""

 

No it isn't, not unless Autodesk can garuntee everyone high speed internet and 100% uptime.


Lance W.
Inventor Pro 2013 (PDS Ultimate)
Vault Pro 2013
Windows 7 64
Xeon 2.4 Ghz 12GB
Message 73 of 327
pendean
in reply to: Lance127

Why would anyone else guarantee your own business' purchased services? You need high-speed internet and 100% uptime then you pay for it through an internet service provider. Autodesk (not an internet provider) will do it's hosting part in return and perhaps figure out how to get you that guarantee for their portion of this transaction (now that is probably what you meant but you got distracted by your own personal needs perhaps?).

Cloud services are a reality here to stay (and hopefully expand to address all concerns): have a game plan or work on one, doing the Ostrich-thing only opens the gates for your competitors to swoop in and take your clients/customers.
Message 74 of 327
Lance127
in reply to: pendean

"Why would anyone else guarantee your own business' purchased services? You need high-speed internet and 100% uptime then you pay for it through an internet service provider. Autodesk (not an internet provider) will do it's hosting part in return and perhaps figure out how to get you that guarantee for their portion of this transaction (now that is probably what you meant but you got distracted by your own personal needs perhaps?).

Cloud services are a reality here to stay (and hopefully expand to address all concerns): have a game plan or work on one, doing the Ostrich-thing only opens the gates for your competitors to swoop in and take your clients/customers."

 

No the fact that Autodesk can't garuntee the availiability of the software I have paid for because my access to it is controlled by multiple unaffiliated third parties, is the point. They can not even garuntee 100% up time on their end yet are still moving forward with this idea that everyone will just accept it, or admit to being a luddite.

 

Yes the cloud is here to stay but being able to trust everything (software and active files) to it ain't here yet. So far as losing clients by not "embrassing the cloud" maybe but they'd have to see some sort of advantage to them in a cloud based system, considering our work I don't se that happening. not to mention we' will lose a client if a design takes twice as long becasue of our internet speed.


Lance W.
Inventor Pro 2013 (PDS Ultimate)
Vault Pro 2013
Windows 7 64
Xeon 2.4 Ghz 12GB
Message 75 of 327
pendean
in reply to: Lance127

Like I wrote, you probably meant the Autodesk commitment to be 100% available, not your personal need to be on the internet.

All great arguments on both sides, but here is a quick reality check: the sad outcome for this software is already in place and the realities of where Autodesk seems to have put in place for it's future are well documented/expressed.

Move on my friend, they have: your opinions have been well expressed by you and most folks reading them get it 100%.
Message 76 of 327
Tim.West
in reply to: pendean


@pendean wrote:
While you wait... may I ask why do you rely on the built-in PDF driver if it does not meet your 'precision' needs? Lots of quality 3rd party PDF drivers out there with fewer limitations and much better output results for those needing perfection.

I am yet to see a reasonably 'Precise' pdf out of a drafting package. I have tried many 3rd party drivers, had lengthy email tussles with Microsoft and adobe, and it appears that the issue is Microsoft and some of its embedded print enablers (if that the right term, I forget). Adobe products output (export/save as) dam(don't add an 'n' or it gets ****) near perfect pdf (funny since they own the format) as they generate the pdf themselves. Printing to 'pdf' from these packages with the adobe driver encourages many of the issues shared by design/CAD/BIM packages.

 

Pdf is fine for 'printed' documents as precision isn't (Do not scale off....) really necessary.


@pendean wrote:
Like I wrote, you probably meant the Autodesk commitment to be 100% available, not your personal need to be on the internet.

All great arguments on both sides, but here is a quick reality check: the sad outcome for this software is already in place and the realities of where Autodesk seems to have put in place for it's future are well documented/expressed.

Move on my friend, they have: your opinions have been well expressed by you and most folks reading them get it 100%.

I'm not sure you do "get it 100%"...

I for one have internet connectivity and speed issues based on my geographic location. This being the case a 100% cloud service is certainly not a viable alternative.

 

If I am a jet-setting executive flying about the planet, how do I do markups on a plane without internet access? How does the self employed designer who has to spend time with the family on holiday, work in evenings on a shared throughput holiday wireless hotspot? My manager couldn't even voice-only skype from a prominent London hotel because of wireless limitations...

 

These are just a few scenarios, there are plenty more.

 

His point is that Autodesk can't guarantee 100% connectivity due to factors outside their control (and a quip about not being able to guarantee their own servers staying up...) which is a deal breaker for many outside the mega-metropolis users subset.

 

As Autodesk don't appear to be integrating functionality with their existing offline markup tool, I can only hope that a similar offline tool is in the pipeline. Don't worry I won't hold my breath, I will wait for the next 'innovation' and spend the required time getting my head around it. That's what I 'm paid for.

 

P.S. The spell checker here tries to replace 'Autodesk' with 'Outtakes'. May require a little attention 🙂

Message 77 of 327
pendean
in reply to: Tim.West

For archive quality PDF, look into PDF/A formats: industries far and wide rely on it for archiving.

If your need is only 'precision' CAD format is the only option. Flip a coin if you don't want DWG files.

'Viable alternative' is in the eye of the beholder: more and more companies are making the leap but it's not universal yet. 'They' will adjust on the hosting side as demands for features grow in volume: this is the first part. The cloud is in it's infancy and will only improve with time.

if you think AutoCAD 360 (www.autocad360.com) is a cute experiment then stop and think about it in more detail: just look at ADR as the first rock rolling down the hill, the main rock-slide will follow sooner than you think. No one spends that kind of time/money rewriting a core product for an experiment, free viewer, free or fee-based 'collaboration' tool only.

Spell Checker around here blows and has no dictionary to boot from what I can tell 🙂
Message 78 of 327
Tim.West
in reply to: pendean


@pendean wrote:
For archive quality PDF, look into PDF/A formats: industries far and wide rely on it for archiving.

If your need is only 'precision' CAD format is the only option. Flip a coin if you don't want DWG files.

Phooey!

 

Graphic designers work with Precision daily. Illustrator defaults to .001mm accuracy which is retained when using pdf, as are curves and beizers (splines).

 

PDF/A doesn't add precision, it just removes functionality(transparency support etc...) to ensure readableness (thats one for the spell checker...) in all pdf readers.

 

Message 79 of 327
pendean
in reply to: Tim.West

I noted 'archive quality' PDF, not precision. Hence the comment about CAD being the only option. Or in your case, Adobe Illustrator for a lower grade format than DWG for a higher format PDF 🙂
Message 80 of 327
Tim.West
in reply to: pendean


@pendean wrote:
I noted 'archive quality' PDF, not precision. Hence the comment about CAD being the only option. Or in your case, Adobe Illustrator for a lower grade format than DWG for a higher format PDF 🙂

Really?

**Rant Removed**

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