Client download & plottion of CAD files

[Anonymous]

I am confused with all the different AutoCAD file formats, free viewers for
folks who do not have AutoCAD, etc. I use both AutoCAD 2002 LT and AutoCAD
2004 full version. I provide drawings to clients in both versions. I want
to be able to tell my client what freebie to download from AutoDesk AND I
need to know how to save my files in order that they can view and plot
without owning any AutoCAD.



Any and all comments will be appreciated.



Thanks.



J

[Anonymous]

Jteselle

There are advantages to both DWF and PDF.  We
generate both files for different purposes, the PDF 's are great since we can
use digital signitures on them but a downside is when plotting some of our files
when in PDF format!  The PDF format for some reason really chokes on some
of our Acad files and as a result can take as much as 20 minutes to print out as
opposed to DWF that plots in under one minute.  The reasons appear to be a
significant amount of text and blocks placed in paperspace and the files being
roughly 20 megs in size.

The other problem with PDF is generating a group of
them from a drawing that has a large number of layouts and you want them all
included in one file. The driver asks for the file name of each layout and when
you have a large number, this really takes time ecspecially when you then need
to take the files afterwards and combine them all together again.

Like I said each has their place!

Just for further clarification!

Shawn Romkey

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"jteselle" <
href="mailto:jt@jt-architecture.com">jt@jt-architecture.com> wrote in
message
href="news:f16788f.14@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f16788f.14@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

A
PDF can do everything that a DWF can, plus some extra things that DWF can't.
Take a look at this page for a comparison of features:
href="http://www.linetype.com/advice/comparison.htm">http://www.linetype.com/advice/comparison.ht...

Also to correct some information stated here: PDFs made from CAD files are
typically vector images, not raster images. So they view and print very
cleanly. I have seen this bit of incorrect information mentioned so frequently
in discussions of PDF and DWF that I have to wonder if some people have ever
seen a PDF of a CAD drawing.

In addition, you can zoom in quite closely with a PDF. The new version of
Adobe Reader (6.0) allows you to set the maximum zoom factor up to 6400%. The
older version (5.1) has a maximum zoom factor of 1600%, which I have never
found insufficient.

DWF files are smaller than PDF in many cases, but this is not a big issue
for most people. I send them to all my clients and have never heard a
complaint.

[jteselle]

The 20MB file does sound unusual. I wonder what is causing that. Most large PDF files that I have seen are due to font problems -- either using SHX fonts that have a lot of filling, or using TrueType fonts but writing them to the PDF as graphics rather than as text (which ends up being the same as a filled SHX). Sometimes changing the conversion settings will help.

The multiple layout problem may be solvable in PDF by using a different PDF driver, such as the AcroPlot driver by CADzation. I believe it provides the function you mentioned.

[Anonymous]

PDF files can vary in size but almost always larger than a DWF and yes in
some test cases were unbeleivably large. Just plot the sample drawing
Willhome.dwg to a 11 X 17 to PDF and then to DWF and you will see the PDF is
several times larger than the DWF. I always plot the text as text.

Cheers,
-Shaan

"jteselle" wrote in message
news:f16788f.20@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
The 20MB file does sound unusual. I wonder what is causing that. Most large
PDF files that I have seen are due to font problems -- either using SHX
fonts that have a lot of filling, or using TrueType fonts but writing them
to the PDF as graphics rather than as text (which ends up being the same as
a filled SHX). Sometimes changing the conversion settings will help.
The multiple layout problem may be solvable in PDF by using a different PDF
driver, such as the AcroPlot driver by CADzation. I believe it provides the
function you mentioned.

[jteselle]

I tried this, and the sizes are about what I have seen in the past -- the Willhome.DWG file comes out at 169 KB in PDF (using Distiller), and 44 KB in DWF (using the Optimized for plotting settings) -- both plotted at 11x17 size. The DWF certainly is smaller, but then the PDF isn't 20 MB either. I doubt anyone would notice the difference in size unless they are using a very slow modem.

Although it is probably possible to find certain types of files in which the PDF is much larger than the DWF, the reverse is also true. I ran a test plot of a drawing with several imported raster images -- the PDF is 1.4MB, the DWF is 5.3MB. This is due to the fact that raster images can be compressed in the PDF, but apparently not in the DWF.


I think that the file size comparision is in almost all cases a non-issue. What you can do with the file is more important.

[Anonymous]

jt,

It is very very rare to find a PDF smaller than a DWF. Also on file sizes I
find just plotting the sample drawing Hotel Model.dwg using default settings
I get:

DWG = 2.1Mb
DWF6 eplot (10 secomnds to plot) = 1.4Mb
PDF using Acrobat 5.1 (10+ minutes to plot) = 11Mb or over 8+ X the DWF size

Hopefully you have plenty of bandwidth and storage space . In any case
both PDF and DWF have their plusses and minuses and each is good for special
document types but design data is overall better in a DWF and PDF for
documentation. In the end use what works best for you but just know that
both have their downsides.

Cheers,
-Shaan

"jteselle" wrote in message
news:f16788f.22@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
I tried this, and the sizes are about what I have seen in the past -- the
Willhome.DWG file comes out at 169 KB in PDF (using Distiller), and 44 KB in
DWF (using the Optimized for plotting settings) -- both plotted at 11x17
size. The DWF certainly is smaller, but then the PDF isn't 20 MB either. I
doubt anyone would notice the difference in size unless they are using a
very slow modem.
Although it is probably possible to find certain types of files in which the
PDF is much larger than the DWF, the reverse is also true. I ran a test plot
of a drawing with several imported raster images -- the PDF is 1.4MB, the
DWF is 5.3MB. This is due to the fact that raster images can be compressed
in the PDF, but apparently not in the DWF.
I think that the file size comparision is in almost all cases a non-issue.
What you can do with the file is more important.

[Anonymous]

Plotting the Willhome.dwg results using all default
settings and 11 X 17:

DWF: 67Kb

PDF5: 982Kb or more than 10 x the size and this can
add up quickly in a multiple sheet set for PDF.

Cheers,

-Shaan

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"jteselle" <
href="mailto:jt@jt-architecture.com">jt@jt-architecture.com> wrote in
message
href="news:f16788f.22@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f16788f.22@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

I
tried this, and the sizes are about what I have seen in the past -- the
Willhome.DWG file comes out at 169 KB in PDF (using Distiller), and 44 KB in
DWF (using the Optimized for plotting settings) -- both plotted at 11x17 size.
The DWF certainly is smaller, but then the PDF isn't 20 MB either. I doubt
anyone would notice the difference in size unless they are using a very slow
modem.

Although it is probably possible to find certain types of files in which
the PDF is much larger than the DWF, the reverse is also true. I ran a test
plot of a drawing with several imported raster images -- the PDF is 1.4MB, the
DWF is 5.3MB. This is due to the fact that raster images can be compressed in
the PDF, but apparently not in the DWF.

I think that the file size comparision is in almost all cases a non-issue.
What you can do with the file is more important.

[Anonymous]

I would concur: for most people, most of the time,
file size differences on this order of magnitude are not really an
issue.  Sure, the PDF is 4x larger than the
DWF; but if you can download (email, web page) the DWF in .1sec, does it really
matter that the PDF takes .4sec?  Of course, there are always cases where
an extra 100KB can be important (i.e., 1 hour vs 4 hour download); but I think
that's the exception, not the rule.

   Dan

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"jteselle" <
href="mailto:jt@jt-architecture.com">jt@jt-architecture.com> wrote in
message
href="news:f16788f.22@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f16788f.22@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

I
tried this, and the sizes are about what I have seen in the past -- the
Willhome.DWG file comes out at 169 KB in PDF (using Distiller), and 44 KB in
DWF (using the Optimized for plotting settings) -- both plotted at 11x17 size.
The DWF certainly is smaller, but then the PDF isn't 20 MB either. I doubt
anyone would notice the difference in size unless they are using a very slow
modem.

[...]

I think that the file size comparision is in almost all cases a non-issue.
What you can do with the file is more important.

[Anonymous]

Ignoring "softer" (non-technical) issues such as cost and viewer
availability, the DWF and PDF file formats themselves have many
similarities. But it can be difficult to make a true "apples to apples"
comparision because there are many different PDF drivers available, as well
as several versions of Acrobat Reader. Adobe has also just released Acrobat
6.0 (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobatpro/main.html) which in some cases
could obviate certain DWF advantages (see
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/engineering.html).

Dan

"Shaan Hurley, Autodesk, Inc." wrote in message
news:E8B69D8EC18C79827CC3A2A920BA11F2@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> jteselle,
>
> I guess we will have to agree to disagree as I have done quite a bit of
> research on PDF & DWF and each have their up and downsides depending on
your
> needs and data.
>
> Sincerely,
> Shaan Hurley
> Autodesk, Inc.
>
> "jteselle" wrote in message
> news:f16788f.17@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> The compression settings in Acrobat have nothing to do with whether
> information is written as raster or vector to a PDF -- the driver used to
> generate the PDF controls this. If the driver is outputting vectors to the
> PDF, then the compression settings will not "convert" them to raster. I've
> created hundreds of PDFs with Acrobat (Distiller) as well as with almost
> every other PDF-creating utility on the market, and they all create vector
> PDFs.
> Maybe you are seeing the effect of not turning on smoothing
(anti-aliasing)
> in Acrobat or Reader. This is controlled by one of the Preferences
> settings -- if "Smooth line art" is not checked, then the display will be
> somewhat choppy unless you are zoomed in. But that is a display issue, not
a
> file format issue.
> As for file size, the largest PDF that I have ever seen created from a
> normal CAD file is 4 MB -- and this was when TrueType fonts were used but
> were written as vectors rather than fonts (which does create large files).
> If fonts are properly written as fonts, the largest size is typically 1 MB
> for a dense construction-documents type sheet. Something must very wrong
> with your settings if you are getting a 40MB PDF, or you must have a lot
of
> high-resolution raster imports in the file.
>
>

[Anonymous]

It's too big for a free download. So it has to be obtained on CD. Once you
enter the deliver via CD medium, free is out of the window.

"Rick Moore" wrote in message
news:7972292EEA2BE06F59EAE64A9EF83E40@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> It's too big so I would rather pay for it?
> Hmm, it feels like a Monday, so I'll just assume that'll make sense
tomorrow
> 🙂

[Anonymous]

30 min on the phone??? Using the cab install you can point your customers to
the webpage,
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?id=3023925&siteID=123112 or you
can create your own similar page. Autodesk Express Viewer will be
automatically installed. Once AEV is installed users can view dwf files from
web pages, by double clicking or by using the AEV open dialog.



"Kevin Nehls" wrote in message
news:2EBEB83D8E98B48AA5EA8DA17F853A62@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> No rumor starting, just asking a serious question. Honest 😉 I wasn't
sure
> what autodesk's plans for their soon to be only free viewer was. Why is
VVE
> being discontinued?
>
> I totally understand the advantages of DWF and think it's pretty cool that
> someone can post a DWF to a website and you can zoom, pan, print, etc.
We,
> in our company, just don't have a need for it for our purposes. Most
people
> we send files to would need at least 4 emails going back and forth or 30+
> mintues on the phone to explain to them where to get a "special" viewer,
how
> to d/l it, install it and use it. Not exactly what I want to spend my
time
> doing
>
> --
> Kevin Nehls
>
>
> "Shaan Hurley, Autodesk, Inc." wrote:
> > Kevin,
> >
> > No starting rumors here . The Autodesk Express Viewer is not being
> > discontinued and the DWF format is far from dying in fact it is growing
as
> a
> > standard very rapidly among those needing more functionality and visual
> > fidelity than that of a PDF which is usually just an encapsulated raster
> > image of the plot.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -Shaan
>
>

[Anonymous]

One solution would be to have your autocad drawings plotted to a DWF file.
Autodesk Express Viewer is a free viewer that views and prints DWF files.
You can download the free viewer from http://www.autodesk.com/expressviewer



"J Willi" wrote in message
news:16801D0FEB1C8A07FEF3FAABAFEB7BB5@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I am confused with all the different AutoCAD file formats, free viewers
for
> folks who do not have AutoCAD, etc. I use both AutoCAD 2002 LT and
AutoCAD
> 2004 full version. I provide drawings to clients in both versions. I
want
> to be able to tell my client what freebie to download from AutoDesk AND I
> need to know how to save my files in order that they can view and plot
> without owning any AutoCAD.
>
>
>
> Any and all comments will be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> J
>
>

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately with Acrobat 6Pro it actually multiplies the file size
differences and still no line merge or ability to reasonably expect a plot
with gradients.

Sincerely,
Shaan Hurley

"J. Daniel Smith" wrote in message
news:6647A8EFE8E1003B00EE699DE03915C1@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Ignoring "softer" (non-technical) issues such as cost and viewer
> availability, the DWF and PDF file formats themselves have many
> similarities. But it can be difficult to make a true "apples to apples"
> comparision because there are many different PDF drivers available, as
well
> as several versions of Acrobat Reader. Adobe has also just released
Acrobat
> 6.0 (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobatpro/main.html) which in some
cases
> could obviate certain DWF advantages (see
> http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/engineering.html).
>
> Dan
>
> "Shaan Hurley, Autodesk, Inc." wrote in
message
> news:E8B69D8EC18C79827CC3A2A920BA11F2@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > jteselle,
> >
> > I guess we will have to agree to disagree as I have done quite a bit of
> > research on PDF & DWF and each have their up and downsides depending on
> your
> > needs and data.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Shaan Hurley
> > Autodesk, Inc.
> >
> > "jteselle" wrote in message
> > news:f16788f.17@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > The compression settings in Acrobat have nothing to do with whether
> > information is written as raster or vector to a PDF -- the driver used
to
> > generate the PDF controls this. If the driver is outputting vectors to
the
> > PDF, then the compression settings will not "convert" them to raster.
I've
> > created hundreds of PDFs with Acrobat (Distiller) as well as with almost
> > every other PDF-creating utility on the market, and they all create
vector
> > PDFs.
> > Maybe you are seeing the effect of not turning on smoothing
> (anti-aliasing)
> > in Acrobat or Reader. This is controlled by one of the Preferences
> > settings -- if "Smooth line art" is not checked, then the display will
be
> > somewhat choppy unless you are zoomed in. But that is a display issue,
not
> a
> > file format issue.
> > As for file size, the largest PDF that I have ever seen created from a
> > normal CAD file is 4 MB -- and this was when TrueType fonts were used
but
> > were written as vectors rather than fonts (which does create large
files).
> > If fonts are properly written as fonts, the largest size is typically 1
MB
> > for a dense construction-documents type sheet. Something must very wrong
> > with your settings if you are getting a 40MB PDF, or you must have a lot
> of
> > high-resolution raster imports in the file.
> >
> >
>
>

[Anonymous]

J.,

We got really confused as well when all we wanted to do was view our drawings, perform some basic functions (such as area and distance measurement, zoom and pan) and print them quickly and effeciently. I came upon a company that uses a free viewer and pretty well simplified the process and cost for us. The viewer is called MaxView and the company is VUDOX. We save our CAD files as .CAL or .tif (b/w). They are small download quickly and are non-write so nobody can manipulate our drawings. It is not everything to everybody but it is working great for us. Down and dirty quick, userfriendly and simplified. Just my .02 cents. Good luck. Thanks, Jeff

[test]

I wish autodesk would be honest and just tell everybody upfront they are trying to (EDITED) out of your money. Hey 5000 bucks for a program!!! It's no catia boys (at least not without alot of expensive plugins). Now you have to pay just to view a dwf!? Switch to pdf everybody (pdf995 is a great printing plugin and its free and so is acrobat reader). What other company releases a 2004 verision and a 2005 version in the same year, not even microsoft has that audacity....
Message was edited by: AnneBrown

[Anonymous]

I don't know where you are going with this, but viewing DWF files IS free.
The free DWF Viewer is pasted all over Autodesk's web site and is free. The
Composer on the other hand is not free, but neither is Adobe Acrobat.


--

Best regards,

Matt Pearson
CAD fx, Inc.
(877) 741-2175
(810) 732-0085
mjp@cadfx.com

[Anonymous]

Would that be test@adobe.com? Both DWF Viewer (free) and DWF Writer (free)
are available to view and create DWFs for free. Further, DWF Viewer is
available from Autodesk, the folks that know the DWF format best, not some
inefficent, bloated 3rd party hack. Lighten up, Francis.

[Anonymous]

Where are you located my friend? DWF creation and viewing is totally free from Autodesk, check these links: http://www.autodesk.com/dwfviewer http://www.autodesk.com/dwfwriter Perhaps you are thinking of DWF Composer, which is the equivalent of Adobe Acrobat, you have to pay for both. Even from 3rd party vendors. It's always cute for gripers to hide behind anonymous email addresses, it's hard to take anyone like that seriously. LOL -- Dean Saadallah Add-on products for LT http://www.pendean.com/lt --