Your Cheatin Heart

[Anonymous]

To All:
I am an instructor at a Technical College teaching beginning level AutoCAD
and I have recently discovered that 2 of my students are "sharing" their
assigned work. In other words, they are turning in the same drawings as
their own.

I am 99% sure that they are cheating but need to be 100%. When I use the
TIME command in AutoCAD, it tells me that both drawings were created at the
exact same 1/100 of a second. That's pretty solid evidence, I think, except
for the fact that they could have started with the same template or drawing
file. I also checked a few random objects in the drawings and the handles
are identical. That seems to be the deciding clue for me that they are
indeed using the same drawing.

Does anybody else have any other ideas on how I can be sure about this? Are
handles as random as I think they are?
Thanks for your time,
Jeff

[Anonymous]

Put a block, layer, piece of text, layer filter or some other easily
identifiable object in one of them?

Bud Miller
www.BudCAD.com
Legal Descriptions, Parcel Reports
Layer Reports, Point Group Automation
and more.

[Anonymous]

This will not tell you how did what but it will tell what the difference
between the two drawings is.

Simply insert one drawing into the other (copies of course but you knew
that) and explode it and then simply use overkill to delete the duplicate
opbects.

Then you will have to retest them. If you review their drawing with them one
a time getting them to go over how they developed it as well as getting
them to revise it, you should be able to tell who did the original drawing.
I think you owe it to the person that created the original.

Dave Alexander

"Jeff Laurich" wrote in message
news:2BC678FD7E5B14FBAFB8222EFCA2706F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> To All:
> I am an instructor at a Technical College teaching beginning level AutoCAD
> and I have recently discovered that 2 of my students are "sharing" their
> assigned work. In other words, they are turning in the same drawings as
> their own.
>
> I am 99% sure that they are cheating but need to be 100%. When I use the
> TIME command in AutoCAD, it tells me that both drawings were created at
the
> exact same 1/100 of a second. That's pretty solid evidence, I think,
except
> for the fact that they could have started with the same template or
drawing
> file. I also checked a few random objects in the drawings and the handles
> are identical. That seems to be the deciding clue for me that they are
> indeed using the same drawing.
>
> Does anybody else have any other ideas on how I can be sure about this?
Are
> handles as random as I think they are?
> Thanks for your time,
> Jeff
>
>

[Anonymous]

Overkill?

I am not familiar with that. Is it a LISP routine?

[Anonymous]

xref one into the other and match them up.

"Jeff Laurich" wrote in message
news:2BC678FD7E5B14FBAFB8222EFCA2706F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> To All:
> I am an instructor at a Technical College teaching beginning level AutoCAD
> and I have recently discovered that 2 of my students are "sharing" their
> assigned work. In other words, they are turning in the same drawings as
> their own.
>
> I am 99% sure that they are cheating but need to be 100%. When I use the
> TIME command in AutoCAD, it tells me that both drawings were created at
the
> exact same 1/100 of a second. That's pretty solid evidence, I think,
except
> for the fact that they could have started with the same template or
drawing
> file. I also checked a few random objects in the drawings and the handles
> are identical. That seems to be the deciding clue for me that they are
> indeed using the same drawing.
>
> Does anybody else have any other ideas on how I can be sure about this?
Are
> handles as random as I think they are?
> Thanks for your time,
> Jeff
>
>

[Anonymous]

while i was in school i had a problem with another student copying my work
while i was at the restroom...

i thought this might happen so i assigned xdata to all my objects (thanks to
lisp) so if any part of it was copied i could figure out what.

when the teach came to both of us thinking we were sharing are work back and
forth i was able to prove that it was MY work and that it was not copied
with my permission.

Jaime


"Jeff Laurich" wrote in message
news:2BC678FD7E5B14FBAFB8222EFCA2706F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> To All:
> I am an instructor at a Technical College teaching beginning level AutoCAD
> and I have recently discovered that 2 of my students are "sharing" their
> assigned work. In other words, they are turning in the same drawings as
> their own.
>
> I am 99% sure that they are cheating but need to be 100%. When I use the
> TIME command in AutoCAD, it tells me that both drawings were created at
the
> exact same 1/100 of a second. That's pretty solid evidence, I think,
except
> for the fact that they could have started with the same template or
drawing
> file. I also checked a few random objects in the drawings and the handles
> are identical. That seems to be the deciding clue for me that they are
> indeed using the same drawing.
>
> Does anybody else have any other ideas on how I can be sure about this?
Are
> handles as random as I think they are?
> Thanks for your time,
> Jeff
>
>

[Anonymous]

I guess I wasn't too clear. I already have their drawings and the class is
pretty much finished except for my grading. If I am going to give them a
"0" for the assignments they cheated on, I have to be sure.

Your ideas will be very useful for next semester, however.
Thanks much,
Jeff


"Jaime" wrote in message
news:C3591AFD0AFDA283522E5E91FA3A38AF@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> while i was in school i had a problem with another student copying my work
> while i was at the restroom...
>
> i thought this might happen so i assigned xdata to all my objects (thanks
to
> lisp) so if any part of it was copied i could figure out what.
>
> when the teach came to both of us thinking we were sharing are work back
and
> forth i was able to prove that it was MY work and that it was not copied
> with my permission.

[cprettyman]

But, you still have to find a way to answer the question of who was cheating - both, or just one. If Student A copied Student B's work, with Student B's knowledge, youcan probably flunk them both. If, however, Student A copied Student B's work secretly, Student B should get a slap on the wrist for poor security procedures, but that might be it.

If I were you, I'd go talk to your supervisor. The school may have disciplinary actions to take beyond a simple failing grade - and they may also have a process that tehy want to use to protect themselves from lawsuits if one or both of the students you are about to flunk decides that they have been treated unfairly.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice.  I think that the TIME
command gives me a pretty good indication who copied from whom.  Total
Editing Time is different in each drawing.  The copied drawing is going to
have a longer editing time.  But that is not 100% either.

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"c.prettyman" <
href="mailto:c.prettyman@ramsa.com">c.prettyman@ramsa.com> wrote in
message
href="news:f15b96d.3@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f15b96d.3@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

But,
you still have to find a way to answer the question of who was cheating -
both, or just one. If Student A copied Student B's work, with Student B's
knowledge, youcan probably flunk them both. If, however, Student A copied
Student B's work secretly, Student B should get a slap on the wrist for poor
security procedures, but that might be it.

If I were you, I'd go talk to your supervisor. The school may have
disciplinary actions to take beyond a simple failing grade - and they may also
have a process that tehy want to use to protect themselves from lawsuits if
one or both of the students you are about to flunk decides that they have been
treated unfairly.

[cprettyman]

Overkill is one of the express tools. In the menu it reads "delete duplicate objects" but the command line entry is "overkill"

[Anonymous]

Leave them alone.
"Jeff Laurich" wrote in message
news:2BC678FD7E5B14FBAFB8222EFCA2706F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> To All:
> I am an instructor at a Technical College teaching beginning level AutoCAD
> and I have recently discovered that 2 of my students are "sharing" their
> assigned work. In other words, they are turning in the same drawings as
> their own.
>
> I am 99% sure that they are cheating but need to be 100%. When I use the
> TIME command in AutoCAD, it tells me that both drawings were created at
the
> exact same 1/100 of a second. That's pretty solid evidence, I think,
except
> for the fact that they could have started with the same template or
drawing
> file. I also checked a few random objects in the drawings and the handles
> are identical. That seems to be the deciding clue for me that they are
> indeed using the same drawing.
>
> Does anybody else have any other ideas on how I can be sure about this?
Are
> handles as random as I think they are?
> Thanks for your time,
> Jeff
>
>

[Anonymous]

Cool.  I will check that one out.

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"c.prettyman" <
href="mailto:c.prettyman@ramsa.com">c.prettyman@ramsa.com> wrote in
message
href="news:f15b96d.9@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f15b96d.9@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Overkill
is one of the express tools. In the menu it reads "delete duplicate objects"
but the command line entry is "overkill"

[Anonymous]

Another good idea.
Thanks.

"RTR" wrote in message
news:ED104D2BE8D7D33C091397B71F015C90@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> xref one into the other and match them up.

[Anonymous]

Haven't tried it but there is CompareDWG by http://www.furix.com/

"Jeff Laurich" wrote in message
news:2BC678FD7E5B14FBAFB8222EFCA2706F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> To All:
> I am an instructor at a Technical College teaching beginning level AutoCAD
> and I have recently discovered that 2 of my students are "sharing" their
> assigned work. In other words, they are turning in the same drawings as
> their own.
>
> I am 99% sure that they are cheating but need to be 100%. When I use the
> TIME command in AutoCAD, it tells me that both drawings were created at
the
> exact same 1/100 of a second. That's pretty solid evidence, I think,
except
> for the fact that they could have started with the same template or
drawing
> file. I also checked a few random objects in the drawings and the handles
> are identical. That seems to be the deciding clue for me that they are
> indeed using the same drawing.
>
> Does anybody else have any other ideas on how I can be sure about this?
Are
> handles as random as I think they are?
> Thanks for your time,
> Jeff
>
>

[Anonymous]

Looks good, I will try it out.
Thanks.

"Dan Allen" wrote in message
news:2A999A6CDB745E1B21098F444BCF0E67@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Haven't tried it but there is CompareDWG by http://www.furix.com/

[Anonymous]

Use DBLIST, if they both display the objects, in the same order, with the same
handles, etc... they are the same.

XREFfing both one top of one another is another way.

*******************************************************
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*******************************************************

Tracy W. Lincoln, Assistant Moderator
Autodesk Discussion Groups Forum Moderator Program

[Anonymous]

For those of you interested, I did a quick check with CompareDWG and found
it very enlightening. It is designed to check revisions made to a drawing
but works good for this purpose. The two drawings were virtually identical.
I tried with two other student drawings and it pointed out over 300 changes
that were made between them, proving that those 2 were not related. It is
an evaluation copy of the program, but looks good, I will probably buy it.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this string.

"Dan Allen" wrote in message
news:2A999A6CDB745E1B21098F444BCF0E67@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Haven't tried it but there is CompareDWG by http://www.furix.com/
>

[Anonymous]

"Jeff Laurich" wrote in message
news:2BC678FD7E5B14FBAFB8222EFCA2706F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Off topic but is your subject line Hank Williams?

[Anonymous]

I believe so.
I'm not much of a country music fan, but Hank was top-notch.

"Hugh Jardon" wrote in message
news:EE9FF6B7734660E5DBC72988AE206F4C@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> "Jeff Laurich" wrote in message
> news:2BC678FD7E5B14FBAFB8222EFCA2706F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> Off topic but is your subject line Hank Williams?
>
>

[Anonymous]

Like someone previously said, i'd xref or insert one of thier dwg's into the
other and match them up..i'm not sure what your drawing, but what is the
possibility of each to draw at the exact same point of the drawing for each
view, line, text, etc? Infinitely minute. Even if the drawings are very
close in style, the possibility that they would start each entity at the
same point is impossible. Even if they drawing was based off the 0,0 point,
the location of text, notes, dimensions, other views. should be different.
The start time is a good indictation that "something is afoot at the Circle
K!" Check the layers. Unless you have a set layer scheme to follow, the
layer names & colors should be different.

If the dwg's overlay each other exactly, the layers match exactly and the
time created are the same....thats a pretty good indication that something
is wrong.

Use the Command "ID" and pick some random points, it will give you the xyz
coord to the eighth decimal place. Its impossibly two students could pick
the smae points up to that accuracy.

You arent teaching 10 grade CAD....your at a Tech College...and everyone on
this DG will agree that we all bust our a** to learn as much about this
program as possible, and if someone is going to cheat there way through
it.....the last thing i would want is to hire a person who earn his
degree/certificate by cheating, and can't draw a straight line with ortho
on......cause I'll have to work with him.Andit isnt fair to the rest of the
students who atucally did the work.


"Jeff Laurich" wrote in message
news:2BC678FD7E5B14FBAFB8222EFCA2706F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> To All:
> I am an instructor at a Technical College teaching beginning level AutoCAD
> and I have recently discovered that 2 of my students are "sharing" their
> assigned work. In other words, they are turning in the same drawings as
> their own.
>
> I am 99% sure that they are cheating but need to be 100%. When I use the
> TIME command in AutoCAD, it tells me that both drawings were created at
the
> exact same 1/100 of a second. That's pretty solid evidence, I think,
except
> for the fact that they could have started with the same template or
drawing
> file. I also checked a few random objects in the drawings and the handles
> are identical. That seems to be the deciding clue for me that they are
> indeed using the same drawing.
>
> Does anybody else have any other ideas on how I can be sure about this?
Are
> handles as random as I think they are?
> Thanks for your time,
> Jeff
>
>