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Windows XP Logo compliance

11 REPLIES 11
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Message 1 of 12
cprettyman
261 Views, 11 Replies

Windows XP Logo compliance

For what it is worth, and I am just one customer, I hope that for all future releaases, AutoDesk will consider usability, and satisfying their own customers needs to be a higher priority than Windows XP (or whatever) Logo compliamce. Maybe if a few big software makers, like AutoDesk, tell Bill G that they don't need his stinking logo, MS will take a closer look at what their requirements are, and realize that some of them do not make much sense...
11 REPLIES 11
Message 2 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

For what it is worth, and I am just one customer, I hope that for all
future releaases, AutoDesk will consider usability, and satisfying their own
customers needs to be a higher priority than Windows XP (or whatever) Logo
compliamce. Maybe if a few big software makers, like AutoDesk, tell Bill G
that they don't need his stinking logo, MS will take a closer look at what
their requirements are, and realize that some of them do not make much
sense...

Or at leats be reasonable about it. Even MS doesn't create a folder in My
Documents called 'My Microsoft Office System 2003 files'. If they don't do it,
Autodesk can probably not do it. And a LITTLE effort explaining how CAD is not
Word Processing would probably address the goofy folder structure issue. Not to
mention the fact that MS doesn't stick it's nasty paws into my Favorites folder
the way Autodesk does! I really think the logo compliance argument is
Marketing's way of deflecting blame.

 

Just my $0.02 anyway.

 

Gordon
Message 3 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

Doesn't it seem pretty silly to have
Support, Plotters, Plotstyles, etc. under Username > Application Data
and
Templates, Textures, etc. under Username > Local Settings > Application Data
for a logo that isn't even on the box?
Message 4 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

Ah, another satified customer 🙂

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:56:34 -0800, c.prettyman
wrote:

>For what it is worth, and I am just one customer, I hope that for all future releaases, AutoDesk will consider usability, and satisfying their own customers needs to be a higher priority than Windows XP (or whatever) Logo compliamce. Maybe if a few big software makers, like AutoDesk, tell Bill G that they don't need his stinking logo, MS will take a closer look at what their requirements are, and realize that some of them do not make much sense...
Message 5 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

Arnt we all 😉

Bruce


"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:saiitvs5s889dcihrbp1gp6chavq1ij7rj@4ax.com...
> Ah, another satified customer 🙂
>
> Matt
> mstachoni@comcast.net
> mstachoni@bhhtait.com
>
> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:56:34 -0800, c.prettyman
> wrote:
>
> >For what it is worth, and I am just one customer, I hope that for all
future releaases, AutoDesk will consider usability, and satisfying their own
customers needs to be a higher priority than Windows XP (or whatever) Logo
compliamce. Maybe if a few big software makers, like AutoDesk, tell Bill G
that they don't need his stinking logo, MS will take a closer look at what
their requirements are, and realize that some of them do not make much
sense...
>
Message 6 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

Amen to that!!

 

Next time Adesk consults with Msoft on what
compliance means, let's hope they include in the conversation:

 

a) somebody who actually has to use and maintain
the product in a complex working environment, and

 

b) a grammar shcool English teacher who can remind
them both of the simple difference between "can" and "may"

 

Just because a file "can" (theoretically) be
modified by the user does not make it a user preference file. The issue is
whether it "may" be modified by the user, in a given office, with a given set of
standards and procedures.

 

In my particular case, of all the "user" files that
are stuck in the goofball path in order to be drug around as part of a user
profile, there is exactly ONE (1) file that our users are allowed to change.
Ther rest of them are NOT user files, as far as we are concerned. They're
company standards.

 

The argument that we CAD managers should spend
our time deciphering the all of this and creating an alternate installation
package to defeat the standard install is nonsense, IMHO. If the software is
going to distinguish between user files and standard files, it should ASK 
ME which files are which, instead of imposing a preposterous default setup
without asking.

 

Where in the world are these organizations in which
no two people have the same language dictionary, the same linetype definitions,
the same command aliases, the same printers, the same base menu, or the same
text styles? Look at all the files that Adesk/Msoft consider to be "user" files,
and try to imagine an organization in which all of them are freely customized by
each individual. How could they possibly work together at all?

 

I can see that in a multidisciplinary firm, some of
these things might be different on a departmental level, but there would still
need to be interoperability between disciplines. And the majority of these
"user" files would still be standardized, at least on a departmental
level.

 

I think Msoft wrote a silly vague rule, and Adesk
interpreted it in a mindless hyper-literal way, without regard to real world
users.

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
For
what it is worth, and I am just one customer, I hope that for all future
releaases, AutoDesk will consider usability, and satisfying their own
customers needs to be a higher priority than Windows XP (or whatever) Logo
compliamce. Maybe if a few big software makers, like AutoDesk, tell Bill G
that they don't need his stinking logo, MS will take a closer look at what
their requirements are, and realize that some of them do not make much
sense...
Message 7 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I am NOT a fan of
Billy or his products):

 

With XP compliance, in a multiuser office with
roaming profiles, a user can log onto ANY machine and his/her AutoCAD
profile will be available since it has become part of the Windows
profile.

 

If I'm correct, I'm not sure what this really
accomplishes since most users always use the same machine day to day (and night
to night if they're as busy as us in the Sunshine State).

 

Corrections / comments ?


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
For
what it is worth, and I am just one customer, I hope that for all future
releaases, AutoDesk will consider usability, and satisfying their own
customers needs to be a higher priority than Windows XP (or whatever) Logo
compliamce. Maybe if a few big software makers, like AutoDesk, tell Bill G
that they don't need his stinking logo, MS will take a closer look at what
their requirements are, and realize that some of them do not make much
sense...
Message 8 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

Basically, they should have given optional supports
paths as part of installation, instead of after the fact
modifications.

 

John


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I am NOT a fan of
Billy or his products):

 

With XP compliance, in a multiuser office with
roaming profiles, a user can log onto ANY machine and his/her AutoCAD
profile will be available since it has become part of the Windows
profile.

 

If I'm correct, I'm not sure what this really
accomplishes since most users always use the same machine day to day (and
night to night if they're as busy as us in the Sunshine State).

 

Corrections / comments ?


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
For
what it is worth, and I am just one customer, I hope that for all future
releaases, AutoDesk will consider usability, and satisfying their own
customers needs to be a higher priority than Windows XP (or whatever) Logo
compliamce. Maybe if a few big software makers, like AutoDesk, tell Bill G
that they don't need his stinking logo, MS will take a closer look at what
their requirements are, and realize that some of them do not make much
sense...
Message 9 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

Correct, IF the network administrator decides to implement Roaming
Profiles. That's a big IF.

Autodesk should simply not have designed AutoCAD 2004's file
distribution system in such a way.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com


On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:59:15 -0800, "TRJ"
bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I am NOT a fan of
>Billy or his products):

>
 

>
With XP compliance, in a multiuser office with
>roaming profiles, a user can log onto ANY machine and his/her AutoCAD
>profile will be available since it has become part of the Windows
>profile.

>
 

>
If I'm correct, I'm not sure what this really
>accomplishes since most users always use the same machine day to day (and night
>to night if they're as busy as us in the Sunshine State).

>
 

>
Corrections / comments ?

>

>style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> For
> what it is worth, and I am just one customer, I hope that for all future
> releaases, AutoDesk will consider usability, and satisfying their own
> customers needs to be a higher priority than Windows XP (or whatever) Logo
> compliamce. Maybe if a few big software makers, like AutoDesk, tell Bill G
> that they don't need his stinking logo, MS will take a closer look at what
> their requirements are, and realize that some of them do not make much
>sense...
Message 10 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

See my reply above. IF (as Matt says, big if) your
network allows roaming profiles, fine. My complaint is that the install
doesn't provide reasonably for the scenario of NOT allowingroaming profiles, and
it takes a ridiculous, pin-head view of what a user profile should contain.

 

In our office, as a function of standards and
policy, there are very few items that the user is allowed to alter. For us,
it wouldn't matter significantly if roaming profiles were allowed,
because the user would see the exact same thing on another computer anyway,
whether it was "his" profile or the company standard. The only differences would
be fairly trivial things like toolbar positions.

 

The default installation should ask the installer
what files are user-configurable, instead of dictating it, and shouldn't
consider anything as being part of a user profile unless the installer decides
that he will let the user change it.

 

Regardless of what Autodesk and Microsoft think, if
company policy does not allow altering a file, then it is not a
user-configurable file, as far as that user's installation is
concerned.

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I am NOT a fan of
Billy or his products):

 

With XP compliance, in a multiuser office with
roaming profiles, a user can log onto ANY machine and his/her AutoCAD
profile will be available since it has become part of the Windows
profile.

 

If I'm correct, I'm not sure what this really
accomplishes since most users always use the same machine day to day (and
night to night if they're as busy as us in the Sunshine State).

 

Corrections / comments ?


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
For
what it is worth, and I am just one customer, I hope that for all future
releaases, AutoDesk will consider usability, and satisfying their own
customers needs to be a higher priority than Windows XP (or whatever) Logo
compliamce. Maybe if a few big software makers, like AutoDesk, tell Bill G
that they don't need his stinking logo, MS will take a closer look at what
their requirements are, and realize that some of them do not make much
sense...
Message 11 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I am NOT a fan of
Billy or his products):

 

With XP compliance, in a multiuser office with
roaming profiles, a user can log onto ANY machine and his/her AutoCAD
profile will be available since it has become part of the Windows
profile.

 

If I'm correct, I'm not sure what this really
accomplishes since most users always use the same machine day to day (and
night to night if they're as busy as us in the Sunshine State).

 

Corrections / comments ?

 

 

You are correct, and I for one think it is a very useful feature,
not because the profiles roam (our users use the same machine 99% of the time)
but because the profile lives on the server and can be backed up. A crash and
reinstall, or a new machine, is easy to deal with because when the user logs on
to the new machine, all their settings are there. To my mind, the fact that
stuff is in the user profile is a good thing, but what was put where is lame.
Plotters are COMMON to everyone more often than not, and Plot Styles are unique.
In the default folder scheme exactly the opposite is tru. And MS didn't say
anything about it, cause they wouldn't know a PC3 from an STB if their lives
depended on it. Also, the folders are needlessly deep and complicated. Part of
the problem is Autodesk marketing insisting on lame folder names like Autodesk
Architectural Desktop when ADT would do. If someone can show me proof that Adesk
sold a copy of ADT because someone was impressed by the install folder name I
will personally dance in the street in a pink tutu.

So, yes, I hope someone at Autodesk looks into our real needs
before the installer is built for the next version.

 

Best,

Gordon

 
Message 12 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: cprettyman

I agree completely, Gordon. The central problem for
CAD managers is the flawed definition of what constitutes a "user" file. A bit
of real-world experience would have led to much more reasonable defaults, as per
the plotting example you cite.

 

We shouldn't have to reverse-engineer the product
installation (which is what the godawful complicated network deployment
mechanism amounts to) in order to get in the general ballpark of a reasonable,
typical install.

 

I see 3 basic scenarios:

 

1) Solo people on a standalone machine. Fine, they
can do whatever they want, they make up their own standards as they go along.
Many of them (judging from this NG) have had a difficult time simply finding
their files in this release, or figuring out how to do the simplest of
customizations. Where's my PGP file?

 

2) CAD managers in big firms, with tons of training
and resources, lots of budget, and gobs of IT support. Some of them,
for example Mark McDonough, have been very gracious in sharing their
discoveries with those of us who have no possibility of mastering this
release's installation on our own. And they have been overwhelmingly
negative, in this NG, on the time and money spent on arm-wrestling this
release into working properly within their company's systems and
policies.

 

3) Guys like me, in small to medium offices, who
have no particularly deep knowledge of networking or operating systems, but
simply have to make the blooming thing work, somehow, by hook or by crook. We
have to support our company's drafting standards, and get the release up
and running in our "spare time." I'm a full time working architect. I'm not a
computer specialist and never will be, and my firm will never be able to afford
a "CAD guy" with much more knowledge than me. The best I can do, when faced
with excessive complexity, is to cobble together a work-around to try
to make it simple again.

 

Folks in my situation probably have it worse
than either of the other categories, because we have to deal with policies,
standards, and interoperability, but without the resources to do it the way it
probably ought to be done. I can generally follow what Mark McD is talking
about, for instance, but I am in complete despair of ever being able to
replicate it. I don't have the knowledge, time, money, network priveledges, or
clout to bring about anything like the system he describes. And that won't
change. For people like me, this is by far the most problematic release that has
ever come down the pike.

 

I sincerely hope somebody at Autodesk pays some
attention to this thread and all the others like it that have appeared
here.

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I am NOT a fan of
Billy or his products):

 

With XP compliance, in a multiuser office with
roaming profiles, a user can log onto ANY machine and his/her AutoCAD
profile will be available since it has become part of the Windows
profile.

 

If I'm correct, I'm not sure what this really
accomplishes since most users always use the same machine day to day (and
night to night if they're as busy as us in the Sunshine State).

 

Corrections / comments ?

 

 

You are correct, and I for one think it is a very useful feature,
not because the profiles roam (our users use the same machine 99% of the time)
but because the profile lives on the server and can be backed up. A crash and
reinstall, or a new machine, is easy to deal with because when the user logs
on to the new machine, all their settings are there. To my mind, the fact that
stuff is in the user profile is a good thing, but what was put where is lame.
Plotters are COMMON to everyone more often than not, and Plot Styles are
unique. In the default folder scheme exactly the opposite is tru. And MS
didn't say anything about it, cause they wouldn't know a PC3 from an STB if
their lives depended on it. Also, the folders are needlessly deep and
complicated. Part of the problem is Autodesk marketing insisting on lame
folder names like Autodesk Architectural Desktop when ADT would do. If someone
can show me proof that Adesk sold a copy of ADT because someone was impressed
by the install folder name I will personally dance in the street in a pink
tutu.

So, yes, I hope someone at Autodesk looks into our real needs
before the installer is built for the next version.

 

Best,

Gordon


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