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What do you think about Trusted DWG?

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Message 1 of 152
jorgeledezma
2938 Views, 151 Replies

What do you think about Trusted DWG?

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=6740482
151 REPLIES 151
Message 81 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

have you seen any Ustn clones Jorge?
They may be out there but I have not seen them.
All I can say is the only people around here (California) that use Ustn are the ones that have to because of the client.
No small shops choose it.

I'm sure adesk laughs when you say its a multi-million business. That is drops in the bucket compared to what Adesk
makes.

JorgeLedezma <>
|>"Nobody seems to be interested in it"
|>
|>MSTA is the base of Intergraph PDS, a multimillion business, for example, where ADSK isn't be able to get in, at least with AutoCAD.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 82 of 152
jorgeledezma
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Actually I used 3DS and Maya for fun. James, for your pleasure I am Piping Designer and I work mainly with PDS/PDMS and others AutoCAD packages like Cadworx, and I have used AutoCAD and main vertical products since 20 years ago.
Message 83 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

It's so lovely when the quote backs are out of context. So I'll reiterate
it. NOBODY [on the ODA web site] seems to be interested. This is based on
the information in the paragraph of my previous post. Which you quoted the
last line of and gave a totally off topic answer.

I don't do any plant design and don't know about autodesk's efforts in the
area. What has this to do with the DGN being an open format and DWG not?

I'm sure people writing software to work with MSTA are interested in the
format. But based on the ODA website you have to be a member even to get a
look at it and no one has posted any utilities to work with DGN. Only DWG.
All though I don't know I would think that members of the ADN would also
have access to the DWG file format. The only difference I see is that the
ODA seems to be an organization supported by Bentley rather than the ADN
which is sponsored by autodesk for their associated developers.

wrote in message news:5204379@discussion.autodesk.com...
"Nobody seems to be interested in it"

MSTA is the base of Intergraph PDS, a multimillion business, for example,
where ADSK isn't be able to get in, at least with AutoCAD.
Message 84 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

"For the record comparing Adobe to Autodesk isn't like comparing "apples and
pomegranates". Last time I checked pdf and dwg were both file formats for
storing information."

If I gave you a DWG file. You could open it and start working on it. If I
gave you a PDF. You could look at it of print it.

Allen
Message 85 of 152
skintsubby
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Jorge,

Learn how to use the tools of your trade then!!! I don't mean just learning how to do simple stuff either. AutoCAD is very powerful, you just need to adapt IT to YOUR way of working... Not try to get the base programme adapted to your way of working.
Sure it has it's limits, So does any software.

Mark
Message 86 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Wrong. You see I have this little icon on my desktop called "Adobe Acrobat
6.0 Standard". As long as the document wasn't locked for editing I could
modify it as much as I wanted.

--
Regards,
Tim
http://tjriley.infogami.com/pyacaddotnet


"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5204462@discussion.autodesk.com...
"For the record comparing Adobe to Autodesk isn't like comparing "apples and
pomegranates". Last time I checked pdf and dwg were both file formats for
storing information."

If I gave you a DWG file. You could open it and start working on it. If I
gave you a PDF. You could look at it of print it.

Allen
Message 87 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

so have you ever written a simple lisp routine? Ever modified a menu (Pre CUI)?
Have you ever written a script?
Saying you have "used" Autocad for 20 years is vague. Well, normally it would not be but your other posts lead me to
believe you have never used acad in production.

I'm glad you had fun with 3ds and maya, I get the feeling your acad exposure is about the same level.

JorgeLedezma <>
|>Actually I used 3DS and Maya for fun. James, for your pleasure I am Piping Designer and I work mainly with PDS/PDMS and others AutoCAD packages like Cadworx, and I have used AutoCAD and main vertical products since 20 years ago.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 88 of 152
jorgeledezma
in reply to: jorgeledezma

James I believe in the tripod metaphor for the AutoCAD way to work.

1 leg are the end users
1 leg is the Cad manager
1 leg is the developer.

You are trying to take me to your field where you say you are: developer field. Why are you continuing posting in the Cad manager forum, why don't you post in the customizing discussion groups where sure you find someone that can match your very deep lisp knowledge. James, I am more Cad manager oriented.
Message 89 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

I might give you that on a technicality. But I was talking about a drawing.
Not a drawing in AutoCAD and a piece of text in adobe. Even with a piece of
text there are better file formats to send data to someone. If you want them
to be able to work with them.

Allen

"Tim Riley" wrote in message
news:5204594@discussion.autodesk.com...
Wrong. You see I have this little icon on my desktop called "Adobe Acrobat
6.0 Standard". As long as the document wasn't locked for editing I could
modify it as much as I wanted.

--
Regards,
Tim
http://tjriley.infogami.com/pyacaddotnet


"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5204462@discussion.autodesk.com...
"For the record comparing Adobe to Autodesk isn't like comparing "apples and
pomegranates". Last time I checked pdf and dwg were both file formats for
storing information."

If I gave you a DWG file. You could open it and start working on it. If I
gave you a PDF. You could look at it of print it.

Allen
Message 90 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

well, one minor detail about ADN is you have to pay to be a member....
But Jorge is possibly the ultimate Troll, per James Wedding's definition.

Allen Jessup
|>It's so lovely when the quote backs are out of context. So I'll reiterate
|>it. NOBODY [on the ODA web site] seems to be interested. This is based on
|>the information in the paragraph of my previous post. Which you quoted the
|>last line of and gave a totally off topic answer.
|>
|>I don't do any plant design and don't know about autodesk's efforts in the
|>area. What has this to do with the DGN being an open format and DWG not?
|>
|>I'm sure people writing software to work with MSTA are interested in the
|>format. But based on the ODA website you have to be a member even to get a
|>look at it and no one has posted any utilities to work with DGN. Only DWG.
|>All though I don't know I would think that members of the ADN would also
|>have access to the DWG file format. The only difference I see is that the
|>ODA seems to be an organization supported by Bentley rather than the ADN
|>which is sponsored by autodesk for their associated developers.
|>
|> wrote in message news:5204379@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>"Nobody seems to be interested in it"
|>
|>MSTA is the base of Intergraph PDS, a multimillion business, for example,
|>where ADSK isn't be able to get in, at least with AutoCAD.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 91 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

bahh, haahhhh, hahhh, that is the funniest thing I have seen yet!

Let me stop laughing so I can type.
So you don't do production, you don't customize, you just have vision.
Was the idea of uninstalling and reinstalling for any acad problem part of your vision?
Was the idea of using "current acad technologies" instead of menus part of your vision?

Your users must really appreciate your vision. All my users regularly stop by my desk and compliment me on my vision. I
say, "thanks, its the funner part of my job because I don't have to get bogged down in actually helping you.."

I'm sure the other cad managers out there got a kick out of your post. You see, they do not get the respect they
deserve because their higher ups think they all just waste time. So thanks for reinforcing that idea.


JorgeLedezma <>
|>James I believe in the tripod metaphor for the AutoCAD way to work.
|>
|>1 pod are the end users
|>1 pod is the Cad manager
|>1 pod is the developer.
|>
|>You are trying to take me to your field where you say you are: developer field. Why are you continuing posting in the Cad manager forum, why don't you post in the customizing discussion groups where sure you find someone that can match your very deep lisp knowledge. James, I am more Cad manager oriented.
|>
|>A Cad manager don't need to be a lisp expert to have vision. So begin to write the number 1501.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Message 92 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

"" I am more Cad manager oriented. ""

How can you manage something if you haven't a clue how it works to start with or what it takes to customize and run?? That's like saying I don't do civil/structural design I just manage them.

You are almost right with your silly little tripod concept, except a tripod is sedentary, goes no where, just sits there. A real company has a two legged walking/running concept where one leg is the end user, the other is the development team, but driving the mechanism is management. The fuel (money software, etc.) the working relationship between each leg (communication) and the skill of the pilot (the manager) determine the speed at which it runs.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 93 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

"" The fact of the matter is they opened their format, ""

Only to avoid appearing duplicitous. Without the ability to open DWG files, Bentley would have folded up their tents long ago. And it cost them NOTHING to open the DGN format, nobody wants it.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 94 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

"" I work in an industry where dwg is pretty much the industry standard. ""

Then you need to get happy with the proprietary control of that format by AutoDESK.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Can I programmatically calculate the area of a rectangle or extract BOM text from a hardcopy? I submit not.""

Can you do it with the use of an AutoDESK product? I submit not as accurately. So there you are. You've chosen to embed your data in a format that is controlled by AutoDESK. You need to get happy with that choice or choose differently.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Please tell me what market share Autodesk will lose by releasing the specifications to the dwg format? Do you honestly think that if they were to release the specifications that a solid chunk of their user base would jump ship to another CAD package? ""

Based on the number of postings here about INtellicad, I'd say yes a chunk of their users would jump. Based on the number of posters here that for some reason disdain big business, I'd say yes. Based on the number of posters that refuse to use any microsoft product in favor of poorer quality open source programs I'd say yes. Based on the number of posters wanting cheap software and going to LT then complaining it won't do lisp, I'd say yes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Last time I checked pdf and dwg were both file formats for
storing information.""

Well there you go then, save your data as a pdf and all is golden right? no need for open source DWG.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 95 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Correction, YOU don't want it. I'd be willing to wager that there are quite
a few corporations out there taking advantage of the open DGN format. If I
were a user of the DGN file format I'd be ecstatic knowing that I can access
my data without having to use a Bentley product. They possibilities are
endless with an open format, the most important I see is the ability to run
batch processes on groups of drawings without the overhead of COM, heck one
wouldn't even need to do it on windows.

You can keep going on and on about Bentley closing their doors if it weren't
for the ability to open DWG files, however that has no relevance in this
conversation. They decoded the DWG file format, it has nothing to do with
Autodesk releasing the specifications for DWG. It's already done, the only
difference it would make now is the end user would be given a
99.999999999999% guarantee that the drawings would be interoperable between
all CAD software. As an end user I can see why you wouldn't want anything
like that.
--
Regards,
Tim
http://tjriley.infogami.com/pyacaddotnet


wrote in message news:5204756@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" The fact of the matter is they opened their format, ""

Only to avoid appearing duplicitous. Without the ability to open DWG files,
Bentley would have folded up their tents long ago. And it cost them NOTHING
to open the DGN format, nobody wants it.
Message 96 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

As all but one comment in your post actually supplied a valid argument and
not just "deal with it" nonsense I'll focus on that one.

As I mentioned in a previous post many companies are releasing the
specifications to their file format, arguably the most important one is
Microsoft's decision to submit the Office 12 XML format to the ECMA as a
standard[1]. If the ECMA accepts this as a standard then competing products
such as OpenOffice will be able to open and save Microsoft documents with
100% accuracy, formatting and all. As many know this was the major downside
to OpenOffice as a doc from Word didn't render the same in Writer and vice
versa.

With that being said why isn't Microsoft worried about the number of users
switching to OpenOffice? Because they know that even though they might lose
a few customers the majority will stick with Office as it's a superior
product. I've used both products and although I like OpenOffice it really
doesn't come close to Office. This holds true with AutoCAD as well. There
are quite a few alternatives out there but not are really as good of a
product as AutoCAD.

[1] http://www.microsoft.com/office/xml/ecmaletter.mspx

--
Regards,
Tim
http://tjriley.infogami.com/pyacaddotnet


wrote in message news:5204761@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" I work in an industry where dwg is pretty much the industry standard. ""

Then you need to get happy with the proprietary control of that format by
AutoDESK.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Can I programmatically calculate the area of a rectangle or extract BOM
text from a hardcopy? I submit not.""

Can you do it with the use of an AutoDESK product? I submit not as
accurately. So there you are. You've chosen to embed your data in a format
that is controlled by AutoDESK. You need to get happy with that choice or
choose differently.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Please tell me what market share Autodesk will lose by releasing the
specifications to the dwg format? Do you honestly think that if they were to
release the specifications that a solid chunk of their user base would jump
ship to another CAD package? ""

Based on the number of postings here about INtellicad, I'd say yes a chunk
of their users would jump. Based on the number of posters here that for
some reason disdain big business, I'd say yes. Based on the number of
posters that refuse to use any microsoft product in favor of poorer quality
open source programs I'd say yes. Based on the number of posters wanting
cheap software and going to LT then complaining it won't do lisp, I'd say
yes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Last time I checked pdf and dwg were both file formats for
storing information.""

Well there you go then, save your data as a pdf and all is golden right? no
need for open source DWG.
Message 97 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

"Deal with it is a valid response to the whine that "they won't play with me". Which is al this boils down to.

Now to the only point for which you had a response. MS released their specs, good for them. It profits them nothing to do so, so I'm curious as to the reason for the move. But again it apples and pomegranates. The comparative simplicity of the MS formats as compare to the DWG format makes it a less than useful comparison. And as you've said Open Office just doesn't compete with the "real" thing. That, however, does not keep the cheap and cheesy from using OpenOffice. We got a spreadsheet just last month that sent the cell formatting screwy, our goofuss client worked on the file at home on OpenOffice to add 10 minutes worth of data that took us an hour to straighten out. That will NOT improve with the release of the source, cheap and cheesy will remain cheap and cheesy.

But that aside, there is NO benefit to Autodesk that would lead them to open the source. NO benefit at all, and possible detriment to their profit margin. The only possible result is a drain on their market base. Except of course for those wishing to profit from some one else's work product.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 98 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Yeah MSTA is the engine for PDS (piece of c#@p if there ever was one). Yes it has the lions share of that niche market, which is less than a third the number of AuCAD seats in the market. In fact PDS is such a wondeful product that they are selving it at the end of next year. They may be getting close with SmartPLant.

But all that aside, no one cares about translating into DGN, nobody wants to. The only foks that want DGN already have MSTA on board, what they want is to be able to open and edit DWG in MSTA truly seamlessly, and that is something that won't benefit AutoDESK a dime's worth.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 99 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

"" I don't do any plant design and don't know about autodesk's efforts in the area. ""

Just to be very clear here "plant design" is one of those terms coined by Bentley that means absolutly nothing. I was doing plant design long before Bentley or AutoDESK existed as CAD platforms, and as my little PNG file attached earlier indicates, I've been using AutoCAD to do Plant Design for a number of years. So when you here that Bentley is the market leader in plant design... its a load of hooey.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 100 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Then you should show us some proof of your abilties to "manage" - not just
argue your point until we are all blue in the face.

Or whichever other metaphor might cover the fingertips.

I - for one - am pleased we don't perform our tasks in the same firm.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
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XPPro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors


wrote in message news:5204602@discussion.autodesk.com...
James I believe in the tripod metaphor for the AutoCAD way to work.

1 leg are the end users
1 leg is the Cad manager
1 leg is the developer.

You are trying to take me to your field where you say you are: developer
field. Why are you continuing posting in the Cad manager forum, why don't
you post in the customizing discussion groups where sure you find someone
that can match your very deep lisp knowledge. James, I am more Cad manager
oriented.

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