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Message 1 of 19
Anonymous
255 Views, 18 Replies

Video cards

I have just installed 5 new machines in my office and have been experiencing
hardware problems with the video cards. The proccessors are AMD6, and the
video cards are NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2-Pro 64 mb with 2mb on card.
The problems I am having is that the proccessor locks up when using
realtime-pan and realtime-zoom.

I would love to here from others that might be having the same problems.
18 REPLIES 18
Message 2 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Nvidia and ATI cards are voodoo in my book. Make sure you have the
absolute latest drivers.

Most weird problems in the display of Autocad can be traced to these two
cards...

--
Karl M. Fuls PLS
Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program

"Patrick A. Key" wrote:
>
> I have just installed 5 new machines in my office and have been experiencing
> hardware problems with the video cards. The proccessors are AMD6, and the
> video cards are NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2-Pro 64 mb with 2mb on card.
> The problems I am having is that the proccessor locks up when using
> realtime-pan and realtime-zoom.
>
> I would love to here from others that might be having the same problems.
Message 3 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

If Nvidia and ATI are "bad", what would you recommend as "good"???

"Karl Fuls" wrote in message
news:3A6542D9.AFBD126E@home.com...
> Nvidia and ATI cards are voodoo in my book. Make sure you have the
> absolute latest drivers.
>
> Most weird problems in the display of Autocad can be traced to these two
> cards...
>
> --
> Karl M. Fuls PLS
> Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
>
> "Patrick A. Key" wrote:
> >
> > I have just installed 5 new machines in my office and have been
experiencing
> > hardware problems with the video cards. The proccessors are AMD6, and
the
> > video cards are NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2-Pro 64 mb with 2mb on card.
> > The problems I am having is that the proccessor locks up when using
> > realtime-pan and realtime-zoom.
> >
> > I would love to here from others that might be having the same problems.
Message 4 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Matrox Millenium G400 is a good one...

Bud Miller
www.BudCAD.com

"Timothy Rider" wrote in message
news:B000739F39C2FD1AF8121B6FE84DE6BC@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> If Nvidia and ATI are "bad", what would you recommend as "good"???
>
> "Karl Fuls" wrote in message
> news:3A6542D9.AFBD126E@home.com...
> > Nvidia and ATI cards are voodoo in my book. Make sure you have the
> > absolute latest drivers.
> >
> > Most weird problems in the display of Autocad can be traced to these two
> > cards...
> >
> > --
> > Karl M. Fuls PLS
> > Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
> >
> > "Patrick A. Key" wrote:
> > >
> > > I have just installed 5 new machines in my office and have been
> experiencing
> > > hardware problems with the video cards. The proccessors are AMD6, and
> the
> > > video cards are NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2-Pro 64 mb with 2mb on
card.
> > > The problems I am having is that the proccessor locks up when using
> > > realtime-pan and realtime-zoom.
> > >
> > > I would love to here from others that might be having the same
problems.
>
Message 5 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I am a fan of Matrox too, but when I ask people who are into 3d a
bit....like in 3dStudio Viz, they say to get the NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS type
cards....and that the G400 or G450 are not too good for 3d.

And if getting a Matrox card, would one be better with the G400, the G400
MAX, or the G450?

Mostly I do 2D and internet, but want to get going in 3d with Viz and ADT
making architectural walk-through type stuff.

I am currently getting ready to get a new card. The present one is my old
trusty Matrox Millennium with 4 meg of Wram. Not the millennium II
either....but the original one. With my new dual Pentium III 933 cpu's it
has improved by 1000 percent over how it worked before. But I think it is
mostly the cpu doing it. In fact it works so well right now that even Viz
works great...I can animate a rendered object and it moves around without
losing the shading or rendering. Before it always became a wire frame.

Jack

"Karl Fuls" wrote in message
news:3A6542D9.AFBD126E@home.com...
> Nvidia and ATI cards are voodoo in my book. Make sure you have the
> absolute latest drivers.
>
> Most weird problems in the display of Autocad can be traced to these two
> cards...
>
> --
> Karl M. Fuls PLS
> Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
>
> "Patrick A. Key" wrote:
> >
> > I have just installed 5 new machines in my office and have been
experiencing
> > hardware problems with the video cards. The proccessors are AMD6, and
the
> > video cards are NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2-Pro 64 mb with 2mb on card.
> > The problems I am having is that the proccessor locks up when using
> > realtime-pan and realtime-zoom.
> >
> > I would love to here from others that might be having the same problems.
Message 6 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

There is a nice comparison chart/utility at the support/download site at
Autodesk. It is under Inventor 4 but I think the results are valid for most
3D app. from Autodesk.
Nice work

Finnur

"Jack Talsky" wrote in message
news:C92AD4B4225E9E2796CAAD835FA0A16D@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> I am a fan of Matrox too, but when I ask people who are into 3d a
> bit....like in 3dStudio Viz, they say to get the NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS type
> cards....and that the G400 or G450 are not too good for 3d.
>
> And if getting a Matrox card, would one be better with the G400, the G400
> MAX, or the G450?
>
> Mostly I do 2D and internet, but want to get going in 3d with Viz and ADT
> making architectural walk-through type stuff.
>
> I am currently getting ready to get a new card. The present one is my old
> trusty Matrox Millennium with 4 meg of Wram. Not the millennium II
> either....but the original one. With my new dual Pentium III 933 cpu's it
> has improved by 1000 percent over how it worked before. But I think it is
> mostly the cpu doing it. In fact it works so well right now that even Viz
> works great...I can animate a rendered object and it moves around without
> losing the shading or rendering. Before it always became a wire frame.
>
> Jack
>
> "Karl Fuls" wrote in message
> news:3A6542D9.AFBD126E@home.com...
> > Nvidia and ATI cards are voodoo in my book. Make sure you have the
> > absolute latest drivers.
> >
> > Most weird problems in the display of Autocad can be traced to these two
> > cards...
> >
> > --
> > Karl M. Fuls PLS
> > Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
> >
> > "Patrick A. Key" wrote:
> > >
> > > I have just installed 5 new machines in my office and have been
> experiencing
> > > hardware problems with the video cards. The proccessors are AMD6, and
> the
> > > video cards are NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2-Pro 64 mb with 2mb on
card.
> > > The problems I am having is that the proccessor locks up when using
> > > realtime-pan and realtime-zoom.
> > >
> > > I would love to here from others that might be having the same
problems.
>
Message 7 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Jack,

Yeah, you trusty old Millenium is not helping matters at all - your CPU is doing
a ton of work in VIZ, and the 4MB is limiting you on how much color depth you
are getting at higher resolutions in Windows. You really need to get a decent
AGP card in the box, with at least 32MB of onboard RAM. nVvidia-based graphics
cards are pretty much the best, in terms of overall performance across 2D and
3D, and driver support is pretty much top notch.

Check out www.nvidia.com to get an idea of what their different chipsets are,
and shop around for graphics cards based on those chipsets - you will probably
find that there is a wide range of pricing, from about $150 to over $500 on
various cards - but each one has features you may not care about or need if you
aren't into TV output or 3D glasses.

For AutoCAD, the old rules from about 5 years ago no longer apply. Any processor
capable of running WIndows is going to run AutoCAD just fine - regens are no
longer any measure of performance, since they are non-existent on modern
machines. For 3D work, because of the elevated CPU capabilities of today, the
graphics card is less of a centralized choke point. Above a certain number of
polygons, however, the card's onboard memory and processors make a difference in
modeling performance.

I have a Creative Labs TnT2-Ultra in my home machine, and it's really quite
capable for most low-end 3D work, and is great for games. Anything based on the
GeForce line, which is a step above the TnT2, will be fine also. Then you get to
the GeForce2 line, which is yet another step up in terms of 3D performance.

If you go with a Matrox G4x0 card, you could go with any of the three mentioned.
I'm using a G400 at work temporarily, until I put in my replacement Elsa Gloria
II which is still sitting in the box right next to me. The G400 is still a fine
all around card, and both ADT and VIZ run fine. Not fantastic in high-polygon
models in VIZ, but acceptable for most work. The Gloria II, on the other hand,
is an all-around kick a%% card. Fantastic in Windows 2D, 3D games, ADT and VIZ.

The differences in the G400 and G400 MAX is the clock frequency on the card -
this is important only for gamers, who require the absolute highest FPS they can
get in Quake or Unreal. The G450 is the successor the the G400 chipset, and it
adds better performance. Reviews of the G450 are essentially the same as they
are on the G400 - capable for Windows business apps, runs Acad, ADT and VIZ, but
not the cards of choice for gamers, cost being about equal.

Matt
stachoni@bellatlantic.net

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:37:02 -0800, "Jack Talsky" wrote:

>I am a fan of Matrox too, but when I ask people who are into 3d a
>bit....like in 3dStudio Viz, they say to get the NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS type
>cards....and that the G400 or G450 are not too good for 3d.
>
>And if getting a Matrox card, would one be better with the G400, the G400
>MAX, or the G450?
>
>Mostly I do 2D and internet, but want to get going in 3d with Viz and ADT
>making architectural walk-through type stuff.
>
>I am currently getting ready to get a new card. The present one is my old
>trusty Matrox Millennium with 4 meg of Wram. Not the millennium II
>either....but the original one. With my new dual Pentium III 933 cpu's it
>has improved by 1000 percent over how it worked before. But I think it is
>mostly the cpu doing it. In fact it works so well right now that even Viz
>works great...I can animate a rendered object and it moves around without
>losing the shading or rendering. Before it always became a wire frame.
Message 8 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>There is a nice comparison chart/utility at the support/download site at
>Autodesk. It is under Inventor 4 but I think the results are valid for most
>3D app. from Autodesk.
>Nice work

Do you have a link to that handy?
Message 9 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Matt,

Thanks again.

The guy who built my computer gave me a temporary board to use until
SuperMicro came out with their new 4x AGP slotted board, and then he said he
would just swap them out with only the difference in cost to pay. I liked
that idea, so did it. Today I found out from SuperMicro that the new board
is not due until the 2nd quarter of this year....still 2 months away.

until then my old Millennium is it. Since this current board does not have
any AGP slot.....2x or 4x. The good side is that I do not have to select
and pay for a new graphic card yet.

The bad side is I just hope the guy remembers our deal in 3 months.

Last night I did the CMOS thing.....read your notes, and read the web site
you gave me. Reset it all to the lower numbers and hit F10 and
return.....then it took me another 1/2 hour to get my system to go back to
the optimal settings and boot up. I have no idea how to back up the bios,
and I am not sure it would have mattered. I mean if it is just a black
screen and it doesn't even turn the green light on for the floppy during
boot up, it ain't going to be able to change my bios back for me.

What did work was continually turning the machine off, waiting 30 seconds
and then turning it back on with my finger on the DEL key. Then the fun
would start. Finally I figured I had about 3 keyboard clicks before it all
went south. So I finally booted into the CMOS and just hit F9 and enter.
That didn't look like it worked, but when I tried again....I was back to
normal and it all booted up.

So now all the clicks that were 3 and then 2 are now 3 again. The rest are
also set at their highest numbers, and I turned on the Video Cache again for
the first two. The rest of the Shadow items I left Disabled.

Most of the names of the click things do not match up to what you listed or
what is listed in the web site.

I guess it is fast enough as it is......never will be.

thanks.

Jack
"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message news:rt0e6tgiag
km2304091bqsgkq7gfdp2s7f@4ax.com...
> Jack,
>
> Yeah, you trusty old Millenium is not helping matters at all - your CPU is
doing
> a ton of work in VIZ, and the 4MB is limiting you on how much color depth
you
> are getting at higher resolutions in Windows. You really need to get a
decent
> AGP card in the box, with at least 32MB of onboard RAM. nVvidia-based
graphics
> cards are pretty much the best, in terms of overall performance across 2D
and
> 3D, and driver support is pretty much top notch.
>
> Check out www.nvidia.com to get an idea of what their different chipsets
are,
> and shop around for graphics cards based on those chipsets - you will
probably
> find that there is a wide range of pricing, from about $150 to over $500
on
> various cards - but each one has features you may not care about or need
if you
> aren't into TV output or 3D glasses.
>
> For AutoCAD, the old rules from about 5 years ago no longer apply. Any
processor
> capable of running WIndows is going to run AutoCAD just fine - regens are
no
> longer any measure of performance, since they are non-existent on modern
> machines. For 3D work, because of the elevated CPU capabilities of today,
the
> graphics card is less of a centralized choke point. Above a certain number
of
> polygons, however, the card's onboard memory and processors make a
difference in
> modeling performance.
>
> I have a Creative Labs TnT2-Ultra in my home machine, and it's really
quite
> capable for most low-end 3D work, and is great for games. Anything based
on the
> GeForce line, which is a step above the TnT2, will be fine also. Then you
get to
> the GeForce2 line, which is yet another step up in terms of 3D
performance.
>
> If you go with a Matrox G4x0 card, you could go with any of the three
mentioned.
> I'm using a G400 at work temporarily, until I put in my replacement Elsa
Gloria
> II which is still sitting in the box right next to me. The G400 is still a
fine
> all around card, and both ADT and VIZ run fine. Not fantastic in
high-polygon
> models in VIZ, but acceptable for most work. The Gloria II, on the other
hand,
> is an all-around kick a%% card. Fantastic in Windows 2D, 3D games, ADT and
VIZ.
>
> The differences in the G400 and G400 MAX is the clock frequency on the
card -
> this is important only for gamers, who require the absolute highest FPS
they can
> get in Quake or Unreal. The G450 is the successor the the G400 chipset,
and it
> adds better performance. Reviews of the G450 are essentially the same as
they
> are on the G400 - capable for Windows business apps, runs Acad, ADT and
VIZ, but
> not the cards of choice for gamers, cost being about equal.
>
> Matt
> stachoni@bellatlantic.net
>
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:37:02 -0800, "Jack Talsky"
wrote:
>
> >I am a fan of Matrox too, but when I ask people who are into 3d a
> >bit....like in 3dStudio Viz, they say to get the NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS type
> >cards....and that the G400 or G450 are not too good for 3d.
> >
> >And if getting a Matrox card, would one be better with the G400, the G400
> >MAX, or the G450?
> >
> >Mostly I do 2D and internet, but want to get going in 3d with Viz and ADT
> >making architectural walk-through type stuff.
> >
> >I am currently getting ready to get a new card. The present one is my
old
> >trusty Matrox Millennium with 4 meg of Wram. Not the millennium II
> >either....but the original one. With my new dual Pentium III 933 cpu's
it
> >has improved by 1000 percent over how it worked before. But I think it
is
> >mostly the cpu doing it. In fact it works so well right now that even
Viz
> >works great...I can animate a rendered object and it moves around without
> >losing the shading or rendering. Before it always became a wire frame.
>
Message 10 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

elsa graphics, oxygen, intergraph good "cad" cards

"Timothy Rider" wrote in message
news:B000739F39C2FD1AF8121B6FE84DE6BC@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> If Nvidia and ATI are "bad", what would you recommend as "good"???
>
> "Karl Fuls" wrote in message
> news:3A6542D9.AFBD126E@home.com...
> > Nvidia and ATI cards are voodoo in my book. Make sure you have the
> > absolute latest drivers.
> >
> > Most weird problems in the display of Autocad can be traced to these two
> > cards...
> >
> > --
> > Karl M. Fuls PLS
> > Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
> >
> > "Patrick A. Key" wrote:
> > >
> > > I have just installed 5 new machines in my office and have been
> experiencing
> > > hardware problems with the video cards. The proccessors are AMD6, and
> the
> > > video cards are NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2-Pro 64 mb with 2mb on
card.
> > > The problems I am having is that the proccessor locks up when using
> > > realtime-pan and realtime-zoom.
> > >
> > > I would love to here from others that might be having the same
problems.
>
Message 11 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Jack,

You motherboard does indeed have an AGP slot (you just don't have an AGP video
card). If it is using a 440BX chipset, it is a 2X slot - but that matters not
one bit. There is no noticable performance difference between 2X AGP or 4X AGP.

When tweaking your BIOS settings, you need to do three things:

When dealing with CAS and RAS timings, you ABSOLUTELY NEED to know you RAM; if
it's of a lower quality, rated at CAS 3, setting the RAM timings to 2-2-2 will
indeed lead to a system failure. On some newer memory modules, you can get away
with upping them to 2-2-2, but it's a crap shoot. Play it safe and leave the
memory timings to "Auto." Also, you usually don't see 2-2-2 rated RAM in PC100
modules - only high-quality PC133.

You ABSOLUTELY NEED to read the motherboard's manual, expecially the BIOS
section. Heed the default parameters if you don't know exactly what they mean..

You ABSOLUTELY NEED to back up you system BIOS _first_, in case you hose your
system You do this by downloading the latest BIOS from the Supermicro Web site;
this .ZIP file has a flash utility called SM2FLASH. Put this on a DOS boot
floppy, and run sm2flash at the command line and save the existing BIOS to a
file called SUPER.ROM on the floppy. Then upgrade the board to the latest BIOS
within the same utility.

If the BIOS flashing procedure (or any wrongly applied tweak) tanks out, you can
restore the SUPER.ROM from the floppy by using a key combination upon startup (I
forget exactly what that is, but it's in the manual and flash utility readme).

You don't need video BIOS caching. You can enable or disable it, but either way
it makes no difference to system stability.

Matt
stachoni@bellatlantic.net

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:30:45 -0800, "Jack Talsky" wrote:

>Matt,
>
>Thanks again.
>
>The guy who built my computer gave me a temporary board to use until
>SuperMicro came out with their new 4x AGP slotted board, and then he said he
>would just swap them out with only the difference in cost to pay. I liked
>that idea, so did it. Today I found out from SuperMicro that the new board
>is not due until the 2nd quarter of this year....still 2 months away.
>
>until then my old Millennium is it. Since this current board does not have
>any AGP slot.....2x or 4x. The good side is that I do not have to select
>and pay for a new graphic card yet.
>
>The bad side is I just hope the guy remembers our deal in 3 months.
>
>Last night I did the CMOS thing.....read your notes, and read the web site
>you gave me. Reset it all to the lower numbers and hit F10 and
>return.....then it took me another 1/2 hour to get my system to go back to
>the optimal settings and boot up. I have no idea how to back up the bios,
>and I am not sure it would have mattered. I mean if it is just a black
>screen and it doesn't even turn the green light on for the floppy during
>boot up, it ain't going to be able to change my bios back for me.
>
>What did work was continually turning the machine off, waiting 30 seconds
>and then turning it back on with my finger on the DEL key. Then the fun
>would start. Finally I figured I had about 3 keyboard clicks before it all
>went south. So I finally booted into the CMOS and just hit F9 and enter.
>That didn't look like it worked, but when I tried again....I was back to
>normal and it all booted up.
>
>So now all the clicks that were 3 and then 2 are now 3 again. The rest are
>also set at their highest numbers, and I turned on the Video Cache again for
>the first two. The rest of the Shadow items I left Disabled.
>
>Most of the names of the click things do not match up to what you listed or
>what is listed in the web site.
>
>I guess it is fast enough as it is......never will be.
>
>thanks.
>
>Jack
Message 12 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Matt,

No AGP.....I know a brown slot from a white slot easily enough and am not so
old yet that I cannot see the difference.

This motherboard has no AGP. It has 6 PCI of which two are the 64 variety.

Anyway, one problem is the names of thing in the bios do not match CAS or
RAS. To make matters worse I have

Act to Deact: 6 clks or 5 clks (6 is default)
Act to Deact: 3 clks or 2 clks (3 is default)
RAS to Precharge Time: 3 clks or 2 clks (3 is default)
RA cycle time: 10 clks or 9 or 8 or 7 clks (10 is default)
Write to Deact: 3 clks or 2 cks (3 is default)
SDRAM CAS Latency: CAS Latency 3 or 2 (3 is default)
ISA IO Cache delay: Full Delay or 1.5 clk, 2.5 clk, or 3.5 clk (Full
is default)
MPS 1.4 Support: enable or disable (Enable is default)

So you see, I do not know which of the four 3 or 2 cliks is the three you
are talking about.

I know I seem about as dumb as the usual blond in most jokes, but maybe I am
just too old for this. You are about my kids age, and they grew up with
atari, and I bought them a Command computer when they were little. Then
there were all the computer games they played. I am from the slide rule
generation.....a real neat and handy device for calculating 2 x 2 = 4 using
log log tables, or figuring out the tangent or cotangent. I still have my
slide rule. And its leather case.

SuperMicro is coming out with a new board in about 3 months. It will have
the 4x AGP slot and be ATA 100, so until then I do not have to buy a new
graphic card. And until then I probably won't need much in 3d anyway. At
the speed that superMicro is operating, by the time they get this new board
to market there will be ATA 200.

Oh well.

Today at the airport there was only a few people at work. The computer was
so fast it was almost uncontrollable. It was really strange. I have never
worked on a computer that fast. The one at my desk is a Dell 600 Xeon, with
256 meg of ram and a scsi hard drive. Usually during normal days it is slow
enough to stop and make coffee sometimes between mouse clicks....that is no
exaggeration. Today it was like lightening.

My home computer is fast enough I guess at settings of 3 clks on everything.
I am afraid to go there again until I download a way to boot back up again.

Thanks for your help as usual.
Jack

my SDRAM is supposed to be high quality, but it could be that I got screwed.
It is PC133 for sure and the motherboard requires parity type memory.

"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:tbug6tsp522aceqopd055p10cch6stum5e@4ax.com...
> Jack,
>
> You motherboard does indeed have an AGP slot (you just don't have an AGP
video
> card). If it is using a 440BX chipset, it is a 2X slot - but that matters
not
> one bit. There is no noticable performance difference between 2X AGP or 4X
AGP.
>
> When tweaking your BIOS settings, you need to do three things:
>
> When dealing with CAS and RAS timings, you ABSOLUTELY NEED to know you
RAM; if
> it's of a lower quality, rated at CAS 3, setting the RAM timings to 2-2-2
will
> indeed lead to a system failure. On some newer memory modules, you can get
away
> with upping them to 2-2-2, but it's a crap shoot. Play it safe and leave
the
> memory timings to "Auto." Also, you usually don't see 2-2-2 rated RAM in
PC100
> modules - only high-quality PC133.
>
> You ABSOLUTELY NEED to read the motherboard's manual, expecially the BIOS
> section. Heed the default parameters if you don't know exactly what they
mean..
>
> You ABSOLUTELY NEED to back up you system BIOS _first_, in case you hose
your
> system You do this by downloading the latest BIOS from the Supermicro Web
site;
> this .ZIP file has a flash utility called SM2FLASH. Put this on a DOS boot
> floppy, and run sm2flash at the command line and save the existing BIOS to
a
> file called SUPER.ROM on the floppy. Then upgrade the board to the latest
BIOS
> within the same utility.
>
> If the BIOS flashing procedure (or any wrongly applied tweak) tanks out,
you can
> restore the SUPER.ROM from the floppy by using a key combination upon
startup (I
> forget exactly what that is, but it's in the manual and flash utility
readme).
>
> You don't need video BIOS caching. You can enable or disable it, but
either way
> it makes no difference to system stability.
>
> Matt
> stachoni@bellatlantic.net
>
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:30:45 -0800, "Jack Talsky"
wrote:
>
> >Matt,
> >
> >Thanks again.
> >
> >The guy who built my computer gave me a temporary board to use until
> >SuperMicro came out with their new 4x AGP slotted board, and then he said
he
> >would just swap them out with only the difference in cost to pay. I
liked
> >that idea, so did it. Today I found out from SuperMicro that the new
board
> >is not due until the 2nd quarter of this year....still 2 months away.
> >
> >until then my old Millennium is it. Since this current board does not
have
> >any AGP slot.....2x or 4x. The good side is that I do not have to
select
> >and pay for a new graphic card yet.
> >
> >The bad side is I just hope the guy remembers our deal in 3 months.
> >
> >Last night I did the CMOS thing.....read your notes, and read the web
site
> >you gave me. Reset it all to the lower numbers and hit F10 and
> >return.....then it took me another 1/2 hour to get my system to go back
to
> >the optimal settings and boot up. I have no idea how to back up the
bios,
> >and I am not sure it would have mattered. I mean if it is just a black
> >screen and it doesn't even turn the green light on for the floppy during
> >boot up, it ain't going to be able to change my bios back for me.
> >
> >What did work was continually turning the machine off, waiting 30
seconds
> >and then turning it back on with my finger on the DEL key. Then the fun
> >would start. Finally I figured I had about 3 keyboard clicks before it
all
> >went south. So I finally booted into the CMOS and just hit F9 and enter.
> >That didn't look like it worked, but when I tried again....I was back to
> >normal and it all booted up.
> >
> >So now all the clicks that were 3 and then 2 are now 3 again. The rest
are
> >also set at their highest numbers, and I turned on the Video Cache again
for
> >the first two. The rest of the Shadow items I left Disabled.
> >
> >Most of the names of the click things do not match up to what you listed
or
> >what is listed in the web site.
> >
> >I guess it is fast enough as it is......never will be.
> >
> >thanks.
> >
> >Jack
>
Message 13 of 19
pkirill
in reply to: Anonymous

My 2 cents: On video cards - the Oxygen series is great with video - but poorly constructed. If you don't mind the onboard fans rattling and vibrating loud enough to hear over your headphones, then I guess there's no prob. 3D Labs response? Send them back and we'll take a look at them. Also we've had some trouble with refreshing (Viewsonic PF815) at the higher resolutions (1200x1600). 3D Labs response? Lower the resolution... The Elsa or FireGL cards will be going in our next 3D systems.
Message 14 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Agreed on all counts - I just returned an Oxygen GVX1 two weeks ago because of a
fan that decided to start rattling and shrieking. I took the PC _completely_
apart, first thinking it was the power supply, then a fan on one of the CPUs,
then finally narrowed it down to the stupid graphics card.

Well, then I took the cover off of one fan, because I couldn't figure out which
one was acting the fool (there are two), only to have it shut up for an hour
then start sassing me again. arg!

And the fact that it doesn't support 24-bit color reallty stinks. I would rather
have 24-bit color at a sharp resolution than have 32-bit color be fuzzy. Another
reason I like the nVidia series of cards.

Matt
stachoni@bellatlantic.net
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:56:10 -0800, pkirill wrote:

>My 2 cents: On video cards - the Oxygen series is great with video - but poorly constructed. If you don't mind the onboard fans rattling and vibrating loud enough to hear over your headphones, then I guess there's no prob. 3D Labs response? Send them back and we'll take a look at them. Also we've had some trouble with refreshing (Viewsonic PF815) at the higher resolutions (1200x1600). 3D Labs response? Lower the resolution... The Elsa or FireGL cards will be going in our next 3D systems.
Message 15 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:06:53 -0800, "Jack Talsky" wrote:

>Matt,
>
>No AGP.....I know a brown slot from a white slot easily enough and am not so
>old yet that I cannot see the difference.

No, I didn't assume that you were - sorry to come off as condescending. Although
I'm having a tough time figuring out how you got a motherboard that supports a
933 P-III without an AGP card?!

>This motherboard has no AGP. It has 6 PCI of which two are the 64 variety.

Now it gets even weirder....what is the motherboard model?

>Anyway, one problem is the names of thing in the bios do not match CAS or
>RAS. To make matters worse I have

>Act to Deact: 6 clks or 5 clks (6 is default)

Leave it at 6

>Act to Deact: 3 clks or 2 clks (3 is default)

Leave it at 3

>RAS to Precharge Time: 3 clks or 2 clks (3 is default)

3, maybe 2

>RA cycle time: 10 clks or 9 or 8 or 7 clks (10 is default)

10

>Write to Deact: 3 clks or 2 cks (3 is default)

3

>SDRAM CAS Latency: CAS Latency 3 or 2 (3 is default)

3. Try 2, but please back up the BIOS first!

>ISA IO Cache delay: Full Delay or 1.5 clk, 2.5 clk, or 3.5 clk (Full
>is default)

Leave it as is.

>MPS 1.4 Support: enable or disable (Enable is default)

Enabled. Some older MBs used a MPS Support of 1.0, but version 1.4 is the one
you want.

>So you see, I do not know which of the four 3 or 2 cliks is the three you
>are talking about.

Sorry, the three you want are SDRAM CAS Latency, RAS Precharge and RAS-to-CAS
Delay (which I think is the "Write to deact" setting). Setting them to 3-3-3 is
the default, fail safe timings; setting them to 2-3-3, 2-2-3 or 2-2-2 gets
progressively faster at the expense of stability.

>SuperMicro is coming out with a new board in about 3 months. It will have
>the 4x AGP slot and be ATA 100, so until then I do not have to buy a new
>graphic card. And until then I probably won't need much in 3d anyway. At
>the speed that superMicro is operating, by the time they get this new board
>to market there will be ATA 200.

In this case I would probably wait till you get the right MB, then hop down to a
local computer show and pick up a relatively inexpensive (~$75) AGP card with 16
or 32MB of RAM.

>My home computer is fast enough I guess at settings of 3 clks on everything.
>I am afraid to go there again until I download a way to boot back up again.

>Thanks for your help as usual.
>Jack
>
>my SDRAM is supposed to be high quality, but it could be that I got screwed.
>It is PC133 for sure and the motherboard requires parity type memory.

It may be the motherboard, then...best to wait until you get the right one.

Matt
stachoni@bellatlantic.net
Message 16 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>Agreed on all counts - I just returned an Oxygen GVX1 two weeks ago because of a
>fan that decided to start rattling and shrieking.

Does anyone know if the Oxygen VX1 has a fan on it?
Message 17 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I agree that it is weird that a relatively current motherboard by a name
manufacturer would not provide AGP. In fact Only one of the SuperMicro 370
series boards does support AGP and it is only 2x.

My model board if you want to see it to believe it, is the 370DLE.

It is only temporary and I can live with it so far.

Guess it is not too fast, since all the clks look like they have to be at 3
and no 2's.

Today I saw an ad in a magazine for a FSB of 400 mhz. when is it going to
stop long enough for us to feel like we like what we bought.

In two or three months I will have the super SuperMicro board and then will
have to find that $75 card you mentioned.

jack

"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:ct2p6tkuv5l29v9k7ln7ismas0tb3n1f35@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:06:53 -0800, "Jack Talsky"
wrote:
>
> >Matt,
> >
> >No AGP.....I know a brown slot from a white slot easily enough and am not
so
> >old yet that I cannot see the difference.
>
> No, I didn't assume that you were - sorry to come off as condescending.
Although
> I'm having a tough time figuring out how you got a motherboard that
supports a
> 933 P-III without an AGP card?!
>
> >This motherboard has no AGP. It has 6 PCI of which two are the 64
variety.
>
> Now it gets even weirder....what is the motherboard model?
>
> >Anyway, one problem is the names of thing in the bios do not match CAS or
> >RAS. To make matters worse I have
>
> >Act to Deact: 6 clks or 5 clks (6 is default)
>
> Leave it at 6
>
> >Act to Deact: 3 clks or 2 clks (3 is default)
>
> Leave it at 3
>
> >RAS to Precharge Time: 3 clks or 2 clks (3 is default)
>
> 3, maybe 2
>
> >RA cycle time: 10 clks or 9 or 8 or 7 clks (10 is
default)
>
> 10
>
> >Write to Deact: 3 clks or 2 cks (3 is default)
>
> 3
>
> >SDRAM CAS Latency: CAS Latency 3 or 2 (3 is default)
>
> 3. Try 2, but please back up the BIOS first!
>
> >ISA IO Cache delay: Full Delay or 1.5 clk, 2.5 clk, or 3.5 clk
(Full
> >is default)
>
> Leave it as is.
>
> >MPS 1.4 Support: enable or disable (Enable is default)
>
> Enabled. Some older MBs used a MPS Support of 1.0, but version 1.4 is the
one
> you want.
>
> >So you see, I do not know which of the four 3 or 2 cliks is the three you
> >are talking about.
>
> Sorry, the three you want are SDRAM CAS Latency, RAS Precharge and
RAS-to-CAS
> Delay (which I think is the "Write to deact" setting). Setting them to
3-3-3 is
> the default, fail safe timings; setting them to 2-3-3, 2-2-3 or 2-2-2 gets
> progressively faster at the expense of stability.
>
> >SuperMicro is coming out with a new board in about 3 months. It will
have
> >the 4x AGP slot and be ATA 100, so until then I do not have to buy a new
> >graphic card. And until then I probably won't need much in 3d anyway.
At
> >the speed that superMicro is operating, by the time they get this new
board
> >to market there will be ATA 200.
>
> In this case I would probably wait till you get the right MB, then hop
down to a
> local computer show and pick up a relatively inexpensive (~$75) AGP card
with 16
> or 32MB of RAM.
>
> >My home computer is fast enough I guess at settings of 3 clks on
everything.
> >I am afraid to go there again until I download a way to boot back up
again.
>
> >Thanks for your help as usual.
> >Jack
> >
> >my SDRAM is supposed to be high quality, but it could be that I got
screwed.
> >It is PC133 for sure and the motherboard requires parity type memory.
>
> It may be the motherboard, then...best to wait until you get the right
one.
>
> Matt
> stachoni@bellatlantic.net
>
Message 18 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Okay, NOW I see what's going on. This is indeed a weird bird. It's an entry
level server motherboard, but has no AGP slot since most servers don't need any
sort of decent graphics. I'm just wondering how much they saved by ditching the
AGP slot - maybe $0.25. Really weird.

Don't worry at all about the BIOS memory timings - you won't see any great
earth-shattering results leaving them as is. I would only bother with them if i
was sure I had high-end CAS2 RAM.

Matt
stachoni@bellatlantic.net

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:16:34 -0800, "Jack Talsky" wrote:

>I agree that it is weird that a relatively current motherboard by a name
>manufacturer would not provide AGP. In fact Only one of the SuperMicro 370
>series boards does support AGP and it is only 2x.
>
>My model board if you want to see it to believe it, is the 370DLE.
>
>It is only temporary and I can live with it so far.
>
>Guess it is not too fast, since all the clks look like they have to be at 3
>and no 2's.
>
>Today I saw an ad in a magazine for a FSB of 400 mhz. when is it going to
>stop long enough for us to feel like we like what we bought.
>
>In two or three months I will have the super SuperMicro board and then will
>have to find that $75 card you mentioned.
Message 19 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Matt,

Well, I did your recommendation ..... the precharge and latency were set to
2 and they work ok. In fact I feel that the computer
is going a little sharper... a little faster now.

Thanks very much for all the time.

all is well now.

Jack

"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:014r6tg17vnnl020u1rd8hf5eihdt60mfv@4ax.com...
> Okay, NOW I see what's going on. This is indeed a weird bird. It's an
entry
> level server motherboard, but has no AGP slot since most servers don't
need any
> sort of decent graphics. I'm just wondering how much they saved by
ditching the
> AGP slot - maybe $0.25. Really weird.
>
> Don't worry at all about the BIOS memory timings - you won't see any great
> earth-shattering results leaving them as is. I would only bother with them
if i
> was sure I had high-end CAS2 RAM.
>
> Matt
> stachoni@bellatlantic.net
>
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:16:34 -0800, "Jack Talsky"
wrote:
>
> >I agree that it is weird that a relatively current motherboard by a name
> >manufacturer would not provide AGP. In fact Only one of the SuperMicro
370
> >series boards does support AGP and it is only 2x.
> >
> >My model board if you want to see it to believe it, is the 370DLE.
> >
> >It is only temporary and I can live with it so far.
> >
> >Guess it is not too fast, since all the clks look like they have to be at
3
> >and no 2's.
> >
> >Today I saw an ad in a magazine for a FSB of 400 mhz. when is it going
to
> >stop long enough for us to feel like we like what we bought.
> >
> >In two or three months I will have the super SuperMicro board and then
will
> >have to find that $75 card you mentioned.
>

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