Venting

[Anonymous]

Management here is blocking us from doing what should be done in order to have a good quality drawing. I am telling people to do things the "proper" way, and he is telling them its not necessary, and to just do it quickly. Then a few weeks later he is complaining, and the person has to pretty much start over because the whole problem started with not spending the time on it in the begining.
In his mind he can design and draft a 500 lot subdivision and have it ready for submission in a few weeks. Therefore we are idiots because we are saying its not possible. I believe he is a bit delusional. I have worked my butt off to get the cad standards, design standards, etc. under enough control that we can each open and work on an others drawing without confusion. We recently installed Land, and I have been trying to train everyone on that. He sticks his nose in and tells me there has to be a faster way of doing it. I have not had formal training since about 2000. Maybe things have changed and there are better ways to do it, but unless he is going to be the big spender and get me/us some formal training he is stuck with how I have been doing things for over 10 years.
He is the only one of the managers that seems to feel speed is better quality. The other 3 are great and supportive. Unfortunately this one is the big boss.
Ahhhhhh I feel better now.

[Anonymous]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:54:19 +0000, lsimms <> wrote:

>Management here is blocking us from doing what should be done in order to have a good quality drawing. I am telling people to do things the "proper" way, and he is telling them its not necessary, and to just do it quickly. Then a few weeks later he is complaining, and the person has to pretty much start over because the whole problem started with not spending the time on it in the begining.

Sounds like the old story of "Never enough time to do it properly,
always enough time to do it again". I once set up a CAD office for a
client and while they were still doing the drawings on the board, the
Technical Manager used to hover over the draughtsmen and get very
angry if they used technical pens. They had to use felt tipped pens
... because the ink dried more quickly than technical pen ink. Then he
would get angry is the person was drawing hidden lines where the
dashes were too close together, or centrelines where the pattern was
not spaced out enough. Needless to say, they had a huge staff
turnover.

Unfortunately such attitudes persist. The other one is where they
throw manpower at a project with the reasoning that if it takes 1
person 10 days to do the work, 10 people will knock it over in one
day. Sadly, that is not necessarily the case.

Fortunately all offices are not like this, but it is very frustrating.

--

Regards,

Ian A. White, CPEng.

| /| / WAI Engineering
| /_| / Sydney 2000
|/ |/ Australia

www.wai.com.au

mailto:ianwhite@wai.com.au

callto://waiwhite on Skype

[Anonymous]

ah but if we speeded up the process, using better equipment the 'expectation' would rise ahead of the capability - I believe in most cases its a lack of forethought and preperation when they hand over the job, if the manager concerned had even opened the CD to see the files he would have spotted the quantity, and with his wife being a CAD draughter should have known the implications - his reaction when I handed him the thick pile of drawings was enough to indicate he had no idea of what was on it and the work involved.

[Anonymous]

Don Reichle wrote:
> There'll be no rust whatsoever on the undersides of the vehicles that park
> in those garages! ;0)
>
> Of course the mufflers, tranies and differentials may need replacement quite
> often also. 😮
>
The first set that went around showed them measuring clearance as it
went up and in. It cleared by inches.

[Anonymous]

Fred,

What kind of car/truck/4-WD/Low Rider did they use? How deep is the garage? They have to have room to stop once they get in there.

If the kids would start riding their bicycle our of the garage, they would be block away before they could stop.

W. Kirk Crawford
Tularosa, New Mexico

"Fred" wrote in message news:5536329@discussion.autodesk.com...

The first set that went around showed them measuring clearance as it
went up and in. It cleared by inches.

[Anonymous]

W. Kirk Crawford wrote:
> Fred,
>
> What kind of car/truck/4-WD/Low Rider did they use? How deep is the garage? They have to have room to stop once they get in there.
>
IIRC it was something like an Explorer they were using.

[Anonymous]

I started working for an "old timer". His office was one of the most
technically advanced in the county. Back then technically advanced meant a
Wang programmable calculator. But he was the first to by and IBM AT.

We have younger Engineers in this county who don't even think field work is
necessary in most cases. It's attitude and professionalism more than age.

Allen

"CivilEIT-guy" wrote in message
news:5535004@discussion.autodesk.com...
If the boss is an old timer, he would say in the olden days, we'd design and
draft right off a USGS map and have it done in 2 weeks.




"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5534647@discussion.autodesk.com...
I sometimes get in to these discussions. And both sides have merit. The boss
wants to start the ball rolling. He wants to show the client that we are
making progress. The client wants to get on the planning board agenda.

We don't do too may 500 lot subdivisions around here any more. But lets take
a 50 lot one. Or a condoplex. I of he could sit down and do a "Sketch Plat"
in not too much time. That's what it would be. A Sketch. It would get
something on paper that could be submitted. The only problem I have with it
is that it doesn't form much of a basis for the later work. I line to get
the alignments done right; do grading, profiles and cross sections; build
watersheds and check that the water's going to flow like I want. All this
makes it much easier in the later stages. But it takes time to do it right.

I went through this just last night. I'd done a lot of work on a site. It
isn't finished but the time had come to make a submittal. My boss new that
there was no way it was going to go through the first time. It will probably
have to go through 3 or 4 rounds in the Community Development Review Council
before it even gets on the planning board agenda.

So I spent 4 hours last night prettying up the plans and plotting them out.
Is it a finished job? No. But it made my boss happy and it will make the
client happy. Sometimes this is the way it works.

Now if your boss actually thinks a 500 lot subdivision can be TOTALLY
designed in a few weeks. He's out of touch with current design.

Allen

wrote in message news:5533857@discussion.autodesk.com...
Management here is blocking us from doing what should be done in order to
have a good quality drawing. I am telling people to do things the "proper"
way, and he is telling them its not necessary, and to just do it quickly.
Then a few weeks later he is complaining, and the person has to pretty much
start over because the whole problem started with not spending the time on
it in the begining.
In his mind he can design and draft a 500 lot subdivision and have it ready
for submission in a few weeks. Therefore we are idiots because we are
saying its not possible. I believe he is a bit delusional. I have worked
my butt off to get the cad standards, design standards, etc. under enough
control that we can each open and work on an others drawing without
confusion. We recently installed Land, and I have been trying to train
everyone on that. He sticks his nose in and tells me there has to be a
faster way of doing it. I have not had formal training since about 2000.
Maybe things have changed and there are better ways to do it, but unless he
is going to be the big spender and get me/us some formal training he is
stuck with how I have been doing things for over 10 years.
He is the only one of the managers that seems to feel speed is better
quality. The other 3 are great and supportive. Unfortunately this one is
the big boss.
Ahhhhhh I feel better now.

[Anonymous]

You mean you expected them to realize ahead of time, what they were asking
for? ;0)

I hear you, we get the same thing here in the States.

Seeing that you're using the King's English in your spelling, what part of
the Crown Colonies might you be from?

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse than training your staff, and having them leave is -
not training your staff, and having them stay." 😮
A reminder taken from Graphics Solution Providers' Calendar page
-------------------------- ------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop 🙂 !!

LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon64 2.2GHz 2GB RAM
XPPro 32bit SP2
WD Raptor 10K-rpm 37GB HD
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB

"The only Constant is Change".

wrote in message news:5535997@discussion.autodesk.com...
ah but if we speeded up the process, using better equipment the
'expectation' would rise ahead of the capability - I believe in most cases
its a lack of forethought and preperation when they hand over the job, if
the manager concerned had even opened the CD to see the files he would have
spotted the quantity, and with his wife being a CAD draughter should have
known the implications - his reaction when I handed him the thick pile of
drawings was enough to indicate he had no idea of what was on it and the
work involved.

[Anonymous]

Gee...

Who woulda thunk it?

"Designing" being an exact science?

"Let the Field Crew figure things out!"
:-o

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse than training your staff, and having them leave is -
not training your staff, and having them stay." 😮
A reminder taken from Graphics Solution Providers' Calendar page
-------------------------- ------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop 🙂 !!

LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon64 2.2GHz 2GB RAM
XPPro 32bit SP2
WD Raptor 10K-rpm 37GB HD
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB

"The only Constant is Change".

"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5536429@discussion.autodesk.com...
I started working for an "old timer". His office was one of the most
technically advanced in the county. Back then technically advanced meant a
Wang programmable calculator. But he was the first to by and IBM AT.

We have younger Engineers in this county who don't even think field work is
necessary in most cases. It's attitude and professionalism more than age.

Allen

"CivilEIT-guy" wrote in message
news:5535004@discussion.autodesk.com...
If the boss is an old timer, he would say in the olden days, we'd design and
draft right off a USGS map and have it done in 2 weeks.




"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5534647@discussion.autodesk.com...
I sometimes get in to these discussions. And both sides have merit. The boss
wants to start the ball rolling. He wants to show the client that we are
making progress. The client wants to get on the planning board agenda.

We don't do too may 500 lot subdivisions around here any more. But lets take
a 50 lot one. Or a condoplex. I of he could sit down and do a "Sketch Plat"
in not too much time. That's what it would be. A Sketch. It would get
something on paper that could be submitted. The only problem I have with it
is that it doesn't form much of a basis for the later work. I line to get
the alignments done right; do grading, profiles and cross sections; build
watersheds and check that the water's going to flow like I want. All this
makes it much easier in the later stages. But it takes time to do it right.

I went through this just last night. I'd done a lot of work on a site. It
isn't finished but the time had come to make a submittal. My boss new that
there was no way it was going to go through the first time. It will probably
have to go through 3 or 4 rounds in the Community Development Review Council
before it even gets on the planning board agenda.

So I spent 4 hours last night prettying up the plans and plotting them out.
Is it a finished job? No. But it made my boss happy and it will make the
client happy. Sometimes this is the way it works.

Now if your boss actually thinks a 500 lot subdivision can be TOTALLY
designed in a few weeks. He's out of touch with current design.

Allen

wrote in message news:5533857@discussion.autodesk.com...
Management here is blocking us from doing what should be done in order to
have a good quality drawing. I am telling people to do things the "proper"
way, and he is telling them its not necessary, and to just do it quickly.
Then a few weeks later he is complaining, and the person has to pretty much
start over because the whole problem started with not spending the time on
it in the begining.
In his mind he can design and draft a 500 lot subdivision and have it ready
for submission in a few weeks. Therefore we are idiots because we are
saying its not possible. I believe he is a bit delusional. I have worked
my butt off to get the cad standards, design standards, etc. under enough
control that we can each open and work on an others drawing without
confusion. We recently installed Land, and I have been trying to train
everyone on that. He sticks his nose in and tells me there has to be a
faster way of doing it. I have not had formal training since about 2000.
Maybe things have changed and there are better ways to do it, but unless he
is going to be the big spender and get me/us some formal training he is
stuck with how I have been doing things for over 10 years.
He is the only one of the managers that seems to feel speed is better
quality. The other 3 are great and supportive. Unfortunately this one is
the big boss.
Ahhhhhh I feel better now.

[Anonymous]

What a rush!

Until the sudden impact against the Hummer maybe. ;0)

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse than training your staff, and having them leave is -
not training your staff, and having them stay." 😮
A reminder taken from Graphics Solution Providers' Calendar page
-------------------------- ------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop 🙂 !!

LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon64 2.2GHz 2GB RAM
XPPro 32bit SP2
WD Raptor 10K-rpm 37GB HD
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB

"The only Constant is Change".

"W. Kirk Crawford" wrote in message
news:5536359@discussion.autodesk.com...
Fred,

What kind of car/truck/4-WD/Low Rider did they use? How deep is the garage?
They have to have room to stop once they get in there.

If the kids would start riding their bicycle our of the garage, they would
be block away before they could stop.

W. Kirk Crawford
Tularosa, New Mexico

"Fred" wrote in message
news:5536329@discussion.autodesk.com...

The first set that went around showed them measuring clearance as it
went up and in. It cleared by inches.

[Anonymous]

Oh. Do not get me started on THAT, Don. I've been the Chief of that crew way
too often.

Allen

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:5536708@discussion.autodesk.com...
Gee...

Who woulda thunk it?

"Designing" being an exact science?

"Let the Field Crew figure things out!"
:-o

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse than training your staff, and having them leave is -
not training your staff, and having them stay." 😮
A reminder taken from Graphics Solution Providers' Calendar page
-------------------------- ------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop 🙂 !!

LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon64 2.2GHz 2GB RAM
XPPro 32bit SP2
WD Raptor 10K-rpm 37GB HD
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB

"The only Constant is Change".

"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5536429@discussion.autodesk.com...
I started working for an "old timer". His office was one of the most
technically advanced in the county. Back then technically advanced meant a
Wang programmable calculator. But he was the first to by and IBM AT.

We have younger Engineers in this county who don't even think field work is
necessary in most cases. It's attitude and professionalism more than age.

Allen

"CivilEIT-guy" wrote in message
news:5535004@discussion.autodesk.com...
If the boss is an old timer, he would say in the olden days, we'd design and
draft right off a USGS map and have it done in 2 weeks.




"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5534647@discussion.autodesk.com...
I sometimes get in to these discussions. And both sides have merit. The boss
wants to start the ball rolling. He wants to show the client that we are
making progress. The client wants to get on the planning board agenda.

We don't do too may 500 lot subdivisions around here any more. But lets take
a 50 lot one. Or a condoplex. I of he could sit down and do a "Sketch Plat"
in not too much time. That's what it would be. A Sketch. It would get
something on paper that could be submitted. The only problem I have with it
is that it doesn't form much of a basis for the later work. I line to get
the alignments done right; do grading, profiles and cross sections; build
watersheds and check that the water's going to flow like I want. All this
makes it much easier in the later stages. But it takes time to do it right.

I went through this just last night. I'd done a lot of work on a site. It
isn't finished but the time had come to make a submittal. My boss new that
there was no way it was going to go through the first time. It will probably
have to go through 3 or 4 rounds in the Community Development Review Council
before it even gets on the planning board agenda.

So I spent 4 hours last night prettying up the plans and plotting them out.
Is it a finished job? No. But it made my boss happy and it will make the
client happy. Sometimes this is the way it works.

Now if your boss actually thinks a 500 lot subdivision can be TOTALLY
designed in a few weeks. He's out of touch with current design.

Allen

wrote in message news:5533857@discussion.autodesk.com...
Management here is blocking us from doing what should be done in order to
have a good quality drawing. I am telling people to do things the "proper"
way, and he is telling them its not necessary, and to just do it quickly.
Then a few weeks later he is complaining, and the person has to pretty much
start over because the whole problem started with not spending the time on
it in the begining.
In his mind he can design and draft a 500 lot subdivision and have it ready
for submission in a few weeks. Therefore we are idiots because we are
saying its not possible. I believe he is a bit delusional. I have worked
my butt off to get the cad standards, design standards, etc. under enough
control that we can each open and work on an others drawing without
confusion. We recently installed Land, and I have been trying to train
everyone on that. He sticks his nose in and tells me there has to be a
faster way of doing it. I have not had formal training since about 2000.
Maybe things have changed and there are better ways to do it, but unless he
is going to be the big spender and get me/us some formal training he is
stuck with how I have been doing things for over 10 years.
He is the only one of the managers that seems to feel speed is better
quality. The other 3 are great and supportive. Unfortunately this one is
the big boss.
Ahhhhhh I feel better now.

[Anonymous]

I am in Canada. Winter would be pretty tough. Doesn't matter what you drive. I really wouldn't wantto shovel that.

[Anonymous]

I am so glad I am not the only one who has the idea of QC, and time at the beginning is less time in the end.

[Anonymous]

Wouldn't be that bad - as long as you recall the secret - go downhill. ;0)

A tether hooked onto one's belt might be helpful also.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse than training your staff, and having them leave is -
not training your staff, and having them stay." 😮
A reminder taken from Graphics Solution Providers' Calendar page
-------------------------- ------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop 🙂 !!

LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon64 2.2GHz 2GB RAM
XPPro 32bit SP2
WD Raptor 10K-rpm 37GB HD
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB

"The only Constant is Change".

wrote in message news:5537083@discussion.autodesk.com...
I am in Canada. Winter would be pretty tough. Doesn't matter what you
drive. I really wouldn't wantto shovel that.

[Anonymous]

I thought that was the object to this endeavor - saving time?

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse than training your staff, and having them leave is -
not training your staff, and having them stay." 😮
A reminder taken from Graphics Solution Providers' Calendar page
-------------------------- ------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop 🙂 !!

LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon64 2.2GHz 2GB RAM
XPPro 32bit SP2
WD Raptor 10K-rpm 37GB HD
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB

"The only Constant is Change".

wrote in message news:5537084@discussion.autodesk.com...
I am so glad I am not the only one who has the idea of QC, and time at the
beginning is less time in the end.

[Anonymous]

It's his company, not yours, his baby, his risk, his life selection,
he decides how things are run, you just put your head down and work
and do as your told, and move on as soon as it is possible if you dare
to be your own person 🙂

--
Dean Saadallah
Add-on products for LT
http://www.pendean.com/lt
--

[Anonymous]

snip>and move on as soon as it is possible if you dare to be your own person
:)
Well said Dean!

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse than training your staff, and having them leave is -
not training your staff, and having them stay." 😮
A reminder taken from Graphics Solution Providers' Calendar page
-------------------------- ------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop 🙂 !!

LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon64 2.2GHz 2GB RAM
XPPro 32bit SP2
WD Raptor 10K-rpm 37GB HD
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB

"The only Constant is Change".

"Dean Saadallah" wrote in message
news:5537228@discussion.autodesk.com...
It's his company, not yours, his baby, his risk, his life selection,
he decides how things are run, you just put your head down and work
and do as your told, and move on as soon as it is possible if you dare
to be your own person 🙂

--
Dean Saadallah
Add-on products for LT
http://www.pendean.com/lt
--

[Anonymous]

When the boss saw the "deer in the headlights" look followed by my saying "have you lost your mind"....oops that was supposed to be the voice inside my head, not out loud" he got the hint I wasn't in agreement with him. The other project managers saved my butt by agreeing with me. So far I still have a job.

[Anonymous]

But I'm wondering whether you've got reason to be following Dean's advice
Isimms?

You're most likely the best judge of the situation though.

The "head honcho" hasn't shared any of their retirement plans recently -
have they?

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse than training your staff, and having them leave is -
not training your staff, and having them stay." 😮
A reminder taken from Graphics Solution Providers' Calendar page
-------------------------- ------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop 🙂 !!

LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon64 2.2GHz 2GB RAM
XPPro 32bit SP2
WD Raptor 10K-rpm 37GB HD
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB

"The only Constant is Change".

wrote in message news:5537594@discussion.autodesk.com...
When the boss saw the "deer in the headlights" look followed by my saying
"have you lost your mind"....oops that was supposed to be the voice inside
my head, not out loud" he got the hint I wasn't in agreement with him. The
other project managers saved my butt by agreeing with me. So far I still
have a job.

[Anonymous]

I'm here in the UK - not a colony at all 🙂 I think we all get the same 'expectations' from Non CAD orientated bosses, we all do our best to educate, but to no avail.

[Anonymous]

snip>I'm here in the UK - not a colony at all 🙂
The "origin" then. ;0)

"Rolling with the punches" may be the better/best defense then Grendel?

Muhammad Ali was well known for his "float like a butterfly, sting like a
bee" philosophy for pugilistics.

In these regards all "bouts" would be confined to verbiage of course.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse than training your staff, and having them leave is -
not training your staff, and having them stay." 😮
A reminder taken from Graphics Solution Providers' Calendar page
-------------------------- ------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop 🙂 !!

LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon64 2.2GHz 2GB RAM
XPPro 32bit SP2
WD Raptor 10K-rpm 37GB HD
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB

"The only Constant is Change".

wrote in message news:5538118@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm here in the UK - not a colony at all 🙂 I think we all get the same
'expectations' from Non CAD orientated bosses, we all do our best to
educate, but to no avail.